Will the buyer get in trouble for non 941 compliance, or just the seller?

[U8395279]

Sounds like maybe he's already a felon and wanted to avoid a background check under SB941 as the seller. Be glad you walked away.

Background checks are done on sellers under SB 941? Are you really sure of that??

.

 

[wired]

Seller doesnt do the BGC.

Even they did do a BGC on the seller and found he couldnt buy or own a gun why would that make sense? He's selling the gun.

 

[cobalt327]

Gun would be sitting in my safe right now.

 

[U8395279]

P.S. If in doubt, maybe only do transfers in Coos County. ;-)

COOS COUNTY CRUSHES ANTI-GUN LAW

Coos County

Apparently, this is also the case in Lane County too.

Take a look:

Lane County Won't Enforce New State Gun Law

 

[U8395279]

County law/etc. does not supersede state law.

Well, but the County District Attorney is responsible for prosecuting all crimes within a county. If the District Attorney will not prosecute the crime, I don't see how someone could then end up in jail.

These counties are not passing their own laws. They are simply saying that they will refuse to enforce this state law.

The person will still be guilty of committing a crime. He just will not be prosecuted.

Lane County's District Attorney is so short on funds, that they are already not bothering to prosecute many minor misdemeanors. They don't have enough money or manpower to take more cases to trial, and they don't have enough jail capacity either.
.

 

[wired]

The same way the state refuses to enforce federal marijuana laws. The feds can still come in and arrest MJ store owners just like the state police can still come in and arrest gun sellers.

 

[Koda]

The person will still be guilty of committing a crime. He just will not be prosecuted.

this doesnt make sense to me. Your not guilty until convicted....

 

[U8395279]

The feds can still come in and arrest MJ store owners just like the state police can still come in and arrest gun sellers.

Well, but the Feds have their own separate court system that they can prosecute people in, who violate Federal law.

The state has no such separate court system. State laws are enforced by the local County District Attorney.

 

[The Heretic]

Well, but the County District Attorney is responsible for prosecuting all crimes within a county. If the District Attorney will not prosecute the crime, I don't see how someone could then end up in jail.

These counties are not passing their own laws. They are simply saying that they will refuse to enforce this state law.

The person will still be guilty of committing a crime. He just will not be prosecuted.

Lane County's District Attorney is so short on funds, that they are already not bothering to prosecute many minor misdemeanors. They don't have enough money or manpower to take more cases to trial, and they don't have enough jail capacity either.
.

You can easily end up in jail if you are arrested.

How long you stay there can depend on whether the DA decides to prosecute and whether the judge decides to hold you there with/without bail.

Also, the Oregon state DOJ has their own prosecutors for certain types of cases. Generally state attorney generals don't prosecute cases, but they do have a lot of pull with DAs and other state and county offices.

But basically, you are correct - if the county DA decides to not prosecute you then you will have won in court. I could see where the county DA would/could go ahead and prosecute you anyway, ignoring the Coos County law, the judge could maybe let it go forward and then you would have to fight it in court.

I would feel safer in Coos County, but go outside that county and you are still susceptible to prosecution if you buy/sell outside that county, and I don't see too many other counties following suite.

 

[Brutus57]

There will come a day when we won't even ask the question. We will know everything we are doing is illegal and we won't care. And when it happens we can curse the democrats for it.

Is it really illegal if the law is illegal and unconstitutional?

Brutus Out

 

[wired]

Is it really illegal if the law is illegal and unconstitutional?

Brutus Out

Pretty much. Maybe it gets repealed 3/4 way into your prison term. Maybe not.

 

[Koda]

Is it really illegal if the law is illegal and unconstitutional?

Brutus Out

define "unconstitutional"? Any law is legal until SCOTUS says its not

 

[Mecanik]

define "unconstitutional"? Any law is legal until SCOTUS says its not

Everything is legal till you get caught.

 

[Skier]

Regarding a seller BGC... I'm not 100% sure of this, but I believe I had read somewhere that when the seller takes his gun to an FFL to do the transfer, then the FFL does the BGC on the buyer... But IF the buyer fails the BGC, the the FFL may be required to do a BGC on the seller before giving it back.

So, I read something like that somewhere, BUT, I don't see it in the the law anywhere, so I'm inclined to think it was just a concern that someone voiced that it could happen, but I don't see any requirement for it in the law.

 

[Koda]

Regarding a seller BGC... I'm not 100% sure of this, but I believe I had read somewhere that when the seller takes his gun to an FFL to do the transfer, then the FFL does the BGC on the buyer... But IF the buyer fails the BGC, the the FFL may be required to do a BGC on the seller before giving it back.

So, I read something like that somewhere, BUT, I don't see it in the the law anywhere, so I'm inclined to think it was just a concern that someone voiced that it could happen, but I don't see any requirement for it in the law.

I'm vaguely recalling a discussion here in this forum where someone claimed a local pawn shop was doing that on the seller. I still cant see any reason why that would be needed, and it sounds like a scam on the pawn shop side to keep the gun until a BGC cleared.

 

[Brutus57]

define "unconstitutional"? Any law is legal until SCOTUS says its not

Strictly speaking...any law that infringes upon the citizen's right to keep and bear arms is unconstitutional. SCOTUS for decades and decades did not reinterpret the 2nd Amendment. Bill of Rights is just that, rights, not privileges. This is exactly what the founders had in mind. They didn't expect SCOTUS to reinterpret the Bill of Rights. Note there were no successful challenges, again, for decades and decades.

Brutus Out

 

[U8395279]

But basically, you are correct - if the county DA decides to not prosecute you then you will have won in court. I could see where the county DA would/could go ahead and prosecute you anyway, ignoring the Coos County law, the judge could maybe let it go forward and then you would have to fight it in court.

You seem to be really out of touch with how very bad the financial situation is for most of Oregon's counties, especially the more rural counties. County DA departments, County Sheriffs, and county jails are all extremely short on funds.

The reality is that most counties don't have the necessary resources needed to fight serious crime. So you are saying that DA's are going to give violations of 941 a priority, when they are already finding it hard to find the money and resources to prosecute violent crimes and crimes that actually have victims?

Here in Lane County, the DA is really struggling badly, and is thus deferring to not prosecute many minor crimes. Plus the County Jail is already filled to capacity with people that have committed major crimes. The Lane County Sheriff and DA's office are both currently having to get by with far fewer employees than they have had in the past.

These are the real reasons why we are not hearing about prosecutions of SB 941. The state basically imposed yet another unfunded mandate upon local governments. And local governments are getting sick and tired of the state doing that to them.

 

[The Heretic]

You seem to be really out of touch with how very bad the financial situation is for most of Oregon's counties, especially the more rural counties.

When it comes to politics, finances are irrelevant. If someone in power really wants to take you down, or make a political point, they will run up a deficit, or find the money elsewhere, to do it.

 

[Koda]

When it comes to politics, finances are irrelevant. If someone in power really wants to take you down, or make a political point, they will run up a deficit, or find the money elsewhere, to do it.

yup, like Bloomberg....

if finances were a factor, they would throw their money at mental healthcare reform and family values and low income communities.... things that actually would make a difference in crime.

 

[wired]

I'm vaguely recalling a discussion here in this forum where someone claimed a local pawn shop was doing that on the seller. I still cant see any reason why that would be needed, and it sounds like a scam on the pawn shop side to keep the gun until a BGC cleared.

The problem is that in Washington and Oregon the law isnt clear on the subject so shops sometimes just do the CYA thing. I sent a letter in to the Washington State attorney general asking if a BCG for return to seller is required if the buyer fails the BGC and they refused to answer the question telling me to get an attorney to answer legal questions.