Will the buyer get in trouble for non 941 compliance, or just the seller?

[The Heretic]

Are you stating that because the law doesn't say you don't have to, that you therefore have to??

You have the advantage of experience with the ATF, but from I have read in their online FAQs, they state that if you send a firearm to an FFL for repair or modification, that they can send it directly back to you without you having to fill out a 4473 or a NICS check being done. The FFL does have to put that firearm into their ledger.

The BGC laws we are talking about here is Oregon state law, not the federal law. How an FFL deals with the BATF is not changed by Oregon state law.

 

[Brane Frees]

So..... what happens if the FFL dealer does the background check and (as very often happens now) it comes back as "delayed" - which I know from recent personal experience can be for as much as 10 weeks or longer?

Does the dealer have to hold on to your firearm and tie it up until the OSP gets around to getting back with a resolution?

 

[The Heretic]

So..... what happens if the FFL dealer does the background check and (as very often happens now) it comes back as "delayed" - which I know from recent personal experience can be for as much as 10 weeks or longer?

Does the dealer have to hold on to your firearm and tie it up until the OSP gets around to getting back with a resolution?

Good point.

surely there has been someone here who has seen this happen on a private transfer?

 

[etrain16]

Good point.

surely there has been someone here who has seen this happen on a private transfer?

I had one where the buyer didn't really have proper ID - his ODL had the wrong address and he didn't have any other forms of ID on him with the proper address. The FFL went way over the top to find a way to make it work for him (I think they were doing it on my behalf because I'm a regular). Anyway, what they did was take the gun onto their books, had the guy pay me, and sent me on my way while they worked it out. They explained that they would hold the gun for a time if the BGC didn't clear, then the buyer would have 2 options, either get the proper ID and get the check passed, or, they would offer to sell it for him on consignment, which likely would mean a loss of some $$ for the buyer. Basically, once the FFL took possession, they took on the gun from there and said they didn't need me involved any longer.

I don't know if all FFL's would be willing to work this way, but this one did. Saved me some time since the guy was up to the PDX area from Salem and couldn't easily get this resolved. I called back later and they did end up getting it sorted out and sending the buyer on his way, with the gun, about 90 minutes later.

 

[The Heretic]

I have two addresses on my ODL - one is the mailing address they sent my title and address update sticker to, which is in beaverton. The other is my residence, which is a Newberg address, but they didn't put Newberg on the sticker, so when I fill out the form I put the correct Newberg address down and the FFL notices that the addresses don't match. I am not going to put the wrong address down on something that I sign, especially with regards to buying a gun.

They send it through anyway and I have not been denied - it goes right through. I am sure that the OSP computers have the correct address in their computers, or maybe they just don't care and they go by my name and SS#?

I've been through this twice since I got the address sticker. I should complain to the ODL though - I will put that on my to do list.

 

[etrain16]

I have two addresses on my ODL - one is the mailing address they sent my title and address update sticker to, which is in beaverton. The other is my residence, which is a Newberg address, but they didn't put Newberg on the sticker, so when I fill out the form I put the correct Newberg address down and the FFL notices that the addresses don't match. I am not going to put the wrong address down on something that I sign, especially with regards to buying a gun.

They send it through anyway and I have not been denied - it goes right through. I am sure that the OSP computers have the correct address in their computers, or maybe they just don't care and they go by my name and SS#?

I've been through this twice since I got the address sticker. I should complain to the ODL though - I will put that on my to do list.

The buyer I had had one of those stickers too - but even that was out of date and somewhat illegible. If it had been legible, it likely wouldn't have been a problem, but the fact that they couldn't read it started the conversation about whether it was current. And that led to the delay. I suspect it would have gone fine otherwise.

 

[Koda]

6 pages and we still haven't really figured it out. I bet Ginny Burdick is proud...

 

[The Heretic]

The buyer I had had one of those stickers too - but even that was out of date and somewhat illegible. If it had been legible, it likely wouldn't have been a problem, but the fact that they couldn't read it started the conversation about whether it was current. And that led to the delay. I suspect it would have gone fine otherwise.

Yeah, my previous sticker was rubbed off such that the address was not legible. when I bought my new car in March the dealer asked the DMV to send me a new sticker and that is how I wound up with what I have now - two street addresses with one town and zip, one of them incorrect.

 

[akeefer]

I'm glad my license expired so now I have a real license with my updated, correct address on the license, no sticker. For how much we pay for "renewing" our license, the least they could do is give us more than a lousy sticker that fades!

 

[balaperdida]

My dealer in Oregon , whom I go to for no other reason than sales tax avoidance.....

Hmmm. When I lived in WA 50 years back, sales tax avoidance was a rather serious infraction. Apparently not so much now.

 

[wired]

Hmmm. When I lived in WA 50 years back, sales tax avoidance was a rather serious infraction. Apparently not so much now.

The state knows where I live. They can come give me a tax bill if they feel like it. Make sure you pay your Washington state tax the next time you buy anything in Oregon. Wouldnt want to be a hypocritical douchebag would you?

 

[Koda]

I just got the new book Oregon Gun Laws by OFF.

It says that if the buyers BGC is denied, the FFL must perform a BGC on the seller to give his gun back to him.

• that's another fee to get your own gun back
  
• that's another possible false denial, the OSP background check system is notoriously inaccurate.
• there is no provision in the law for the disposal of the firearm if the original owner is denied.

 

[The Heretic]

I would like to see in the law where it states those requirements

 

[wired]

Again,
You are running into the intersection of federal and state laws. While the state law might say that the gun simply gets returned to the original owner ( the seller ) there is no real mechanism in the federal regs to allow that once the gun has been entered into the dealers books ( as required by the state law ). The dealer cannot simply erase the transaction or strike it out. To change disposition the dealer needs the NICS control number and for that he needs to run a BGC and a 4473. Once its in the dealers books it is essentially the dealers property until he transfers it out according to federal law. The state has nothing to do with it at that point. Its just something that hasnt come up yet in the course of a state mandated private party transfer.

 

[Koda]

I would like to see in the law where it states those requirements

I just got the book yesterday and am traveling this weekend and left the book at home so I cant immediately follow up with the ORS sources cited in the book... but I have the same question as you.

 

[PaulB47]

It's upsetting, to say the least, to realize that we fear our own government in matters that should be private between good friends.

Your mistake is in thinking it's "our own government". It belongs to those in it and those who control it. That ain't us. Oh, and fearing government is a rational response, not something to get distressed over.

When it comes to politics, finances are irrelevant. If someone in power really wants to take you down, or make a political point, they will run up a deficit, or find the money elsewhere, to do it.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes, lots of irrational things get done with government money, but it's not like someone with a hard on for you can ignore the budget entirely. Anyway there are all sorts of negative consequences for p*ssing away money frivolously. Also the people in question are living in small towns with the rest of us, and shunning may result from getting too far out of line. Never mind trying to get re-elected with this as an issue...

isnt it great they can ram these BS written laws down our throats then leave it up to us to learn the hard way if we will be charged with a crime or not.... for trying to follow the law.

We all commit three felonies a day already. No big deal...

Six pages on a thread and you still haven't figured things out. The rulers have you just where they want you.