Why does everyone hate the .40s&w?

[Gunner3456]

seriously? i'll spell it out: it's bad form to resurrect long-dead threads.

Your rules?

 

[Bam]

Chances are you hate it because...

1) you suck at shooting it, so you hate it

2) you hate diversity, 45 and 9s are all you need

3) you're a tool, other people hate it so it is the trendy thing to do

 

[The B]

Your rules?

i can see you're new to the internets

 

[Gunner3456]

i can see you're new to the internets

Hardly. BTW, how many internets are there?

 

[The B]

Hardly. BTW, how many internets are there?

ask W

 

[Gunner3456]

ask W

I think I'll ask Obama. He'll know. He knows we have 57 states.

Obama 57 States - YouTube

 

[VW_Factor]

seriously? i'll spell it out: it's bad form to resurrect long-dead threads.

He contributed content related to the topic of discussion in the thread.

That is hardly bad form.

Bumping a thread with something not related is bad form.

 

[mjbskwim]

I think I'll ask Obama. He'll know. He knows we have 57 states.

Obama 57 States - YouTube

Did we take over Canada already?

 

[mjbskwim]

Recently in my neck of the woods a federal LEO shot at a suspect with a .40 S&W that was breaking into his home at night . About a week and a half later the bad guy was caught in portland with the bullet still in his shoulder. He had been treating his own wound and was recovering according to the report i read in our local newspaper article. I do not know what bullet was used in this case... But i did see a similar result with a .45 acp hydra shok shot into a blacktail deers hind quarters at close range, the bullet penatrated about 1 1/2"-2" with a huge bruse resulting from the shot. I tracked the deer and killed it with one shot with a 140g SJHP .357mag handload that passed through the lungs and out the other side, resulting in a clean kill. IMO i think bullet selection and shot placement are the keys to success no matter what caliber is involved.

Always been told that self defense rounds aren't very good hunting rounds.

I'm adding just for bkb0000.And all his interwebbens

 

[bruzer]

There is a thread on Oregon Concealed Carry asking "What is your CCW caliber?" so far with 118 replies the 9mm is #1 followed by, you guessed it, .40 is #2 with .45 in a very close #3 position.
I just hope this thing leached onto my hip doesn't KaBoom!!! when I need it. Ha-ha
Mike

 

[Gunner3456]

Probably because of <broken link removed>. There was a police shootout in Pennsylvania last year...a subject ambushed a couple of Police Officers with a .45 and was hit at least six times by the Officers' .40 calliber glock pistols.

The coroner conducted an examination that concluded that the .40s didn't penetrate far enough to cause enough damage to stop the subject. Mind you, most shots were in the torso and one in the neck. None of the rounds penetrated farther than 1" in the neck or torso. It was only when the .223 was brought in did the subject get dropped....being shot in the hip, lung, and foot.

The attached is the FBI jumping all over the report to defend the .40 S&W for current use....stating that the coroner's report was "innacurate" and that the .40 S&W passed all of their ballistic tests.

Nevertheless, since they used 180gr Speer Gold Dots, I switched all my carry rounds to Hornady TAP.


Read the report, but realize it is VERY graphic. It includes XRays and the examiners initial observatory pictures. Also, I would take the FBIs conclusion with a grain of salt...I don't care what some ballistic gel test says, if the rounds didn't go past the breast plate then I don't want them as my carry rounds.

Just to clarify, I'm not against the .40 S&W...not in the least bit. The round has it's uses...in fact, I own and carry a G22 and G27. What I got from the article is that bullets slow down quite considerably when they hit glass and other hard targets. This was the last stray for my faith in Speer Gold Dots as well...I had a bunch of .45 ACP rounds crimp in their cassings when loaded into a Springfield XD.

Just take what you can from the information and make your own conclusions...that is the only reason why I've posted the above. Again, I'm not anti-40, nor am I anti-Speer...I just made my own conclusions from the information provided and my own experiences and experimentations with the rounds.

I think you're misreading that whole article you linked to. To me, at first it tells the false rumors which were circulated about the .40. Then it gives the actual cornoner's results and they were, cut and paste from your link:


&#8226; There is plenty of inaccurate information
regarding ballistics/terminal performance
disseminated on web forums, even those which are
dedicated as LE only.
&#8226; The .40 S&W ammunition did not fail in this
incident.
&#8226; The performance of the .223 TAP ammunition,
although consistent with manufacturer's claims,
did not perform terminally as this Police
Department expected.
&#8226; Six .40 S&W rounds, five which expanded, were
recovered on autopsy.
&#8226; It is impossible for .40 S&W 180 gr. JHP
ammunition to expand with only 1 in. or less
penetration in a human body.

So, it was the AR that failed and not the .40. I am not a fan of heavy AR bullets for social work.

 

[Crazyeye24]

I definitely prefer the .40 as well and am currently looking for another one. I do find any gun with a polymer frame to be a snappy shooter. I prefer a metal frame that absorbs more recoil.

 

[cotillion]

I prefer 9mm over 40 simply because modern ammo has good ballistics and I'd rather have a few extra rounds. I'll be getting a Springfield xd subcompact in 9mm this week and with 3 extra rounds than the 40 it seemed the obvious choice to me. I could listen to stories from people about how it couldn't even kill a deer, or I could remember that people also bag on Taurus weapons and do my own research

 

[Kevatc]

As an aspiring bad guy in training :winkkiss: I don't want to be shot with anything including a BB gun. I imagine that any handgun will hurt when it hits me. What scares me is the good guy, while legally protecting himself and others, might shoot and hit me over and over and over and ..... Well, as you can imagine that might put an end to my career as a bad guy. My advice to you guys who are concerned about caliber is to shoot me only once and then come ask me how I feel. In no way do I encourage you to shoot me until I can no longer answer your questions.

 

[Misterbill]

The only pistol that I hated the .40 S&W in was the Glock 27. It hurt to fire it and I didn't even want to fire a hundred rounds that I had before I sold the thing... Didn't have a problem with the Glock 22 or 23 or even a Browning Hi Power in .40 but that 27 was pure evil. In medium sized pistols I think they are fine but I think that most people who carry medium sized pistols can handle the .45 ACP and still prefer it over the .40 S&W.

I didn't buy the G-27 for the specific reason that it's grip was inherently unstable due to it's shortness. It's just barely smaller than a XD sub-compact, but enough to really notice it on the grip. The XD beats the SH*T out of my wrist as it is, I can only imagine how much worse the super short grip on the g-27 must be.

 

[Misterbill]

Ok, read the whole thread and only one person even mentioned it.

The reason for the hating .40 is that it's not 10MM.

The 10 MM round, is, IMO probably the best pistol caliber ever invented with man-sopping power in mind, followed closely and about equally by the .357 Sig and .45 loaded to +p pressures.

.40 came to be because the FBI are a bunch of sissies who can't shoot worth a sh**.

Initially the FBI commissioned a round that was superior to the then current 38 special round with higher capacity and loaded into a semi-auto platform. This is how the S&W 1076 came to be.
The problem was that the FBI was whining then about the recoil on the 1076. As someone who has owned 1076's and loves them, I can tell you this is from FBI agents not getting enough training and nothing whatever to do with the round itself.

The initial load was for a 170 grain JHP shooting at 1300 FPS. That equals sever man-stopping power no matter how you sloce it.

The FBI's objection had nothing to do with effectiveness, it had everything to do with the FBI's shooters being poorly trained sissies who couldn't take the recoil.

So, a compromise round was selected, which is how we got the .40.

There's nothing wrong with the .40. As others have said, shot placement is king. Two rounds in the thoracic cavity with virtually anything larger than a 25 auto is pretty well guaranteed to stop 99% of all comers. It just gets better as the bullet weight/speed of the round increases.

To my mind, you need to start out realizing that in ANY pistol caliber you're already compromising. If it's all about stopping power and nothing but, then I'll take a 12-gauge. But since those are kinda hard to conceal, I have to take a pistol.

having ALRADY MADE THE ESSENTIAL COMPROMISE IN STOPPING POWER...the caliber of the pistol is relatively unimportant.

If the guys in the 1986 FBI shootout had been placing their rounds in the thoracic cavity, it wouldn't have been an issue. The whole problem was crappy shooting on the part of the FBI, with two guys armed with 5.56 being placed against snub-nosed revolvers and dedicated attackers, -something that is always going to work against a defender.

Things to bring to a handgun fight:

1. bring a gun. Preferably a LONG gun.
2. Bring all your friends with guns

the .40 is a fine round. It's a bit snappy on the recoil, but this is noticed mostly in lighter sub-compact polymer guns. I will happily take a 9mm or .40, 357 Sig or .45 Auto to a gunfight. It's about how well you shoot, not really the bullet's capacity to stop you with marginal hits. If you're shooting well, you will kill or incapacitate your target with two rounds to the thoracic cavity. For every exception to this I can show you a hundred cases of its success.

But 10MM>.40 S&W by a long shot. It's just expensive as all Hell to shoot unless you reload.

 

[Chipperxd]

Why does everyone always bring up the point that Rifles are better man stoppers? Are there people that doubt that Rifles are more powerful?

My main EDC was a G23 but I switched to a 9mm for the reasons already mentioned. More capacity and cheaper to practice. Don't really need any other reasons than that.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I think you're misreading that whole article you linked to. To me, at first it tells the false rumors which were circulated about the .40. Then it gives the actual cornoner's results and they were, cut and paste from your link:


&#8226; There is plenty of inaccurate information
regarding ballistics/terminal performance
disseminated on web forums, even those which are
dedicated as LE only.
&#8226; The .40 S&W ammunition did not fail in this
incident.
&#8226; The performance of the .223 TAP ammunition,
although consistent with manufacturer's claims,
did not perform terminally as this Police
Department expected.
&#8226; Six .40 S&W rounds, five which expanded, were
recovered on autopsy.
&#8226; It is impossible for .40 S&W 180 gr. JHP
ammunition to expand with only 1 in. or less
penetration in a human body.

So, it was the AR that failed and not the .40. I am not a fan of heavy AR bullets for social work.

Looking at the 1986 FBI shootout I am not a fan of the 55 grain 5.56 bullets either. I prefer the M855 and similar weight hollowpoints

I also like the 9MM/40/45/38 Special/.357 magnum/10MM for primary CCW handgun calibers, depending on the circumstances. You put those bullets (modern expanding hollowpoints like gold dots) in the right place and they should do the job

 

[civilian75]

My mantra: Terminal ballistics is like real estate, the three most important things are location, location, location.

A few years back, IIRC, I did a few expansion tests with milk jugs (too cheap for ballistic gel). To my surprise, both 45ACP and 40SW mushroom diameter was about the same. Fired 45ACP Gold Dots and 40SW Hydra-Shoks.

 

[sadiesassy]

I am newer to the pistol scene .
I had a 357 for years I believe it was a Chief Special. I could get two fingers around the handle. Just barely get my trigger finger over the trigger. So getting something that could fit my hand was important. I was looking for something that was for Concela Carry.

Tried several guns. Most 9mm were too thin. I ended up buying a 40 S&W subcompact. I liked everything except that it had a heavy trigger pull. Had that fixed. Before my hand use to get tired - I initially thought it was due to the recoil. Turns out it was the trigger pull

Yes the 9mm is cheaper to shoot - But I think I have picked up all my ammo at about $12 for 50 rounds. Seems exceptable.
Of course I am not practicing with Hyrdra shoks - but they the rounds in my gun when I carry.