Why does everyone hate the .40s&w?

[NCW Ray]

I'm a huge .40 S&W fan. I carried one for much of my police career, buying a 4006 as soon as they were on the market in the early 1990's. That's a big gun, and I'm looking for a compact .40 to augment my carry guns. I carry a compact S&W .45 acp but want a powerful pistol with a few more rounds in the magazine.

"The coroner conducted an examination that concluded that the .40s didn't penetrate far enough to cause enough damage to stop the subject."
Nonsense! In 1994 I personally placed two .40 cal. Silvertips in the 10-x ring of a charging suspect, both rounds penetrating sternum, heart and severing the spinal column. Stopped him cold in his tracks.

No, no, couldn't have happened, from what I'm reading on here and other forums the .40 has too much/to snappy of recoil to do that!

Good job! Sorry you had to make the decision to take a life, fortunately I never had to make that decision in my 33 years of LE.

.40 cal was/is still my caliber of choice.

 

[jimwsea]

The .40 works for me in a heavier, full size pistol. I think it would be a bit snappy for me in a compact polymer frame.

 

[bugeye]

A quick check of ballistics with 4 inch barrels shows that a 9mm of 124gr travels 1310 ft per second with 472 ft pounds of impact force close in.
The .40, shows a 165gr going 1150 ft per second with 484 ft pounds of force.
I don't see much difference there, what am I missing?
I was leaning toward the 9 because I'm going to be doing a lot of target shooting with this one.

 

[Chipperxd]

I can actually shoot my G23 better than my G22 in .40sw. I love the .40 cal round. People may bash it but I think it's the perfect balance between the .45 and the 9mm.

 

[The B]

holes size is insignificant. that's not what the .40 is about, and it shouldn't be what any duty/self defense load is chosen for. the compromise that the .40 can be called is the compromise between weapon shootability, capacity, and penetration.

the 9mm gives a couplefew more rounds and is a lot easier to shoot, but doesn't do well with intermediate barriers. the .45 offers better intermediate barrier performance, but is very limited in capacity and shootability over 9. its tough to say which is more shootable between .45 and .40- a lot of people say one or the other.. personally, i shoot the .45 a lot better than the .40, which tends to wobble around a lot more in my hands. which leaves only improved intermediate barrier performance as a decided plus (compromise).

so, basically, the .40 is a law-enforcement load, since "regular guys" generally have very little use for barrier penetration... and doesn't have much application outside of that, considering the existence of 9mm and .45.

if you need barrier penetration, are willing to do what it takes to train to proficiency, it's the load you want.

it's that simple.

 

[jimwsea]

personally, i shoot the .45 a lot better than the .40, which tends to wobble around a lot more in my hands.

Does it wobble because the grip on your .40 is smaller (or otherwise does not fit your hand as well as your .45), or is it that the recoil of the .40?

 

[Gunner3456]

Why does "everyone" hate the .40?

Dunno. Ask the 2/3 or more of all LEO's in this country who carry that round.

 

[Gunner3456]

A quick check of ballistics with 4 inch barrels shows that a 9mm of 124gr travels 1310 ft per second with 472 ft pounds of impact force close in.
The .40, shows a 165gr going 1150 ft per second with 484 ft pounds of force.

I don't see much difference there, what am I missing?

Wound channel.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Probably because of <broken link removed>. There was a police shootout in Pennsylvania last year...a subject ambushed a couple of Police Officers with a .45 and was hit at least six times by the Officers' .40 calliber glock pistols.

The coroner conducted an examination that concluded that the .40s didn't penetrate far enough to cause enough damage to stop the subject. Mind you, most shots were in the torso and one in the neck. None of the rounds penetrated farther than 1" in the neck or torso. It was only when the .223 was brought in did the subject get dropped....being shot in the hip, lung, and foot.

The attached is the FBI jumping all over the report to defend the .40 S&W for current use....stating that the coroner's report was "innacurate" and that the .40 S&W passed all of their ballistic tests.

Nevertheless, since they used 180gr Speer Gold Dots, I switched all my carry rounds to Hornady TAP.


Read the report, but realize it is VERY graphic. It includes XRays and the examiners initial observatory pictures. Also, I would take the FBIs conclusion with a grain of salt...I don't care what some ballistic gel test says, if the rounds didn't go past the breast plate then I don't want them as my carry rounds.

Just to clarify, I'm not against the .40 S&W...not in the least bit. The round has it's uses...in fact, I own and carry a G22 and G27. What I got from the article is that bullets slow down quite considerably when they hit glass and other hard targets. This was the last stray for my faith in Speer Gold Dots as well...I had a bunch of .45 ACP rounds crimp in their cassings when loaded into a Springfield XD.

Just take what you can from the information and make your own conclusions...that is the only reason why I've posted the above. Again, I'm not anti-40, nor am I anti-Speer...I just made my own conclusions from the information provided and my own experiences and experimentations with the rounds.

Apparently you did not read the entire report and have drawn inaccurate conclusions.. it clearly states in "Lessons Learned" that "The .40 S&W ammunition did not fail in this incident" and "Determined individuals can sustain many gunshot wounds in areas that produce great pain and continue to fight a long time, even without the aid of drugs or alcohol"

And:

"Shot placement is everything in a gunfight and always the key to stopping a threat effectively"

The 40s hit non vital areas that did not incapacitate. The .223 TAP did perform poorly. This says it all:

"Assailant was shot 17 times with 11 rounds exiting body"
And:

"At least 107 rounds (.40/.223) were fired by two officers"



The fired 107 rounds and missed 90 of them, most of those misses being fired from an M4 carbine! :huh:

 

[The B]

Does it wobble because the grip on your .40 is smaller (or otherwise does not fit your hand as well as your .45), or is it that the recoil of the .40?

i'd probably have better luck if i loosened my grip when shooting 40. it's so punchy, it's almost like a spring-stopper effect in my hands. but that's not how i shoot.

 

[SteelyDan]

I love this round. I would bet my life on it.

 

[bugeye]

Wound channel.

Thanks, I see.

 

[deen_ad]

Wound channel.

I used to carry a KelTech P-40 with a .357 Sig barrel, now I carry a Taurus PT-145. The .45 is easier to shoot than the KT for me. However, after seeing the wound channels they aren't that much different. May have to reconsider and put a .50 in my holster now.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
WAC member
SWWAC member

 

[supergenius]

.40 baby eagle steel compact... shoots very nice, tight group and very manageable... Just picked up a 45 Poly compact and havent shot it yet (PT145), but will this weekend. Id rather have the 40 than a 9 anyday. I like the 45 round, curious to see how i like the tuarus

 

[Kanewpadle]

9MM, 40SW, 45ACP.

Either is weak in stopping power.

We must make a choice in what we carry. What we believe. What fits best. How we dress. And what we can afford.

With either caliber, mindset, training, and practice will determine the outcome of a gunfight.

I have carried all three of those calibers and don't worry about it.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

The .40 works for me in a heavier, full size pistol. I think it would be a bit snappy for me in a compact polymer frame.

My 125 lb wife shoots her G23 just fine with full power loads

 

[Martini_Up]

because it doesn't make sense.... 10 is bigger than 40. Get it?

 

[dan10mmman]

because it doesn't make sense.... 10 is bigger than 40. Get it?

And 9 is bigger than 380 Pretty much the same difference

 

[Kanewpadle]

And 9 is bigger than 380 Pretty much the same difference

Yeah Dan, but not everyone owns 50 different 10MM's like you.

 

[Invader]

"Why does everyone hate the .40s&w?"

Judging by the amount of .40 brass picked off the mountains when I go shooting, I would say people LOVE the .40S&W!!