Why did Zimmerman have a gun

[JGRuby]

It tells a lot that the cops and detectives spent a month trying to find a reason to arrest Zimmerman, and could not. It was not until the race baiter's, Jackson and Sharpton came to town with their rhetoric, and NBC sent out a doctored up 911 tape, that the city was pushed into making the arrest.

The Sanford police have not been a model police department for some time - I do not find this unusual.

James Ruby

 

[michaels]

Regarding the incident at church and bramble, I think this guy sums it up pretty good.

Submitted by Travis J Reville, Virginia Beach, VA on Wed, 05/02/2012 at 8:02 pm.

It is indisputable that anyone getting beat while minding thier own business is an unfortunate event, but this is being read into way further than it needs to be. No one is going around committing these types of offenses with the intentions of getting revenge for Trayvon Martin regardless of what anyone in the background says, that's just ludicrous. This situation is simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Furthermore any man who in the company of a woman chooses to confront a mob rather than driving off bears some responsibility for injuries she incurred, she should be as angry at him as she is the mob. Stuff like this happens everyday on both sides of the spectrum, If you don't have any street smarts, STAY OFF THE STREETS. These situations have more to do with have and have nots than black or white. These kinds of groups of thugs were doing this before Trayvon Martin and will continue to do so after he is forgotten, so that angle is irrelevent even if that was said. Sometimes life isn't fair, they should have drove off, get over it.

 

[Misterbill]

Hindsight is always 20/20. Just put yourself in Zims shoes. Here's this dude over you repeatedly banging your head on the curb. You are getting dizzy, world spinning around you, about to lose your consciousness, not knowing if he won't stop until after he sees your brains spilled out on the ground. What would you do? I know what I'd do.

I admit I have not been following this as close as many of you. The only thing I think might still convict Zimmerman is the 9-1-1 recording pleads for help. I do not know yet what to make if it.

Best quote of the thread. personally, I would have clZaimed he was going for my gun -Pretty much an automatic out for deadly force.

Two things are without doubt:

1. zimmerman got out of his car with no good reason to do so and a thousand for not doing so. -Bad judgement at least, manslaughter at worst.

2. Zimmerman made ANY statements to the cops in what was clearly a questionable shoot.

These are two clear lessons for the rest of us civilians watching:

1. AVOID, if at all possible, any confrontation while armed unless someone is in immediate serious danger.
2. DON'T talk to the cops AT ALL if there is in the slightest doubt your shoot was 110% legit.

I teach this to every class I hold. Zimmerman would be in clear territory if he had observed the techniques that I and many other trainers teach.

What many of you self-taught guys don't grasp is what you DON'T know.

It's not an insult, it's a statement of fact.

Defensive use of a gun is serious business, fraught with a thousand ways to get into trouble if you don't know what you're doing. I can personally recommend classes from SFA, Gunsite, OFA and EBFE (my company) as good ways to avoid the nightmare that Zimmerman is dealing with. This stuff is not simple or obvious. You need to underdstand the law and relevant case law within your state to have a good handle on it. Not having that handle can get you where Zimmerman is today.

Good gun handling is great. but knowing where and where NOt to apply that training is at least as valuable as putting three rounds in center mass in in 1.5 seconds.

 

[nick80]

hope he spends a while in prison

 

[swoop]

hope he spends a while in prison

Why?

 

[accessbob]

hope he spends a while in prison

So, you have tried and convicted the person before their trial and jury has determined that to be so? I guess we could just say that we hope you spend a while in prison. Would that make you feel better? Sure, we don't know that you have done anything but this stuffed animal on my bed told me you did, so I hope you go to prison for a while. No need for me to get the facts before I state that.

 

[nick80]

Why?

man slaughter.
911 told him to not follow him. had he listened a young kid would still be alive

 

[nick80]

So, you have tried and convicted the person before their trial and jury has determined that to be so? I guess we could just say that we hope you spend a while in prison. Would that make you feel better? Sure, we don't know that you have done anything but this stuffed animal on my bed told me you did, so I hope you go to prison for a while. No need for me to get the facts before I state that.

we all have opinions on things, I stated my opinion but again that is just MY opinion. of course all I know is what you know. but I know if 911 tells you to not follow and you don't listen and a young man gets killed it sounds like it could have been prevented. again just my opinion

 

[accessbob]

man slaughter.
911 told him to not follow him. had he listened a young kid would still be alive

I see you've bought the doctored tapes. 911 did NOT tell him not to follow him. 911 replied to him that "You don't need to do that." That is not telling someone that they are not to follow someone.

Let the jury decide what is what and then, if he is found guilty, he should be sentenced to prison. If not, then no. The "facts" of the case were not all released to the public and those that were have been twisted and turned beyond all recognition. The trial is the place to determine guilt. Not in the media. If you base your decision solely on what you've heard from the media, then you are using incomplete, and sometimes biased, data to make your decision.

 

[Redcap]

we all have opinions on things, I stated my opinion but again that is just MY opinion. of course all I know is what you know. but I know if 911 tells you to not follow and you don't listen and a young man gets killed it sounds like it could have been prevented. again just my opinion

 

[swoop]

man slaughter.
911 told him to not follow him. had he listened a young kid would still be alive

I call it self defense. Zimmerman was viciously attacked, and simply defended himself. Had Martin used his head, and got his butt out of there, he would still be alive today. Right?

 

[Darknight]

Treyvon had no resposibility to do anything as he was not breaking the law in any way shape or manner. He did not even have to recognize Zimmerman. Treyvon was pursued because he was black - plain and simple. What one balck person does a crime all black people should be treated like criminals? Teyvon resemebled other black men that had been looting and or robbing. In my mnd ZImmerman escalated the situation by pursuing Treyvon and becuase Zimmerman was armed knew that he should have known that he was escalating the situation. Zimmerman called the police. Zimmerman could have followed directions and and could have stayed in his vehicle. Zimmerman also had been charged with an assualt on a police officer - not exactly a chior boy. I want Zimmerman to go down on this one. Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch that means he was suppose to watch not interact - that is the police / LEO's job.

James Ruby

I agree with most of what you have said. In some states the homeowners associations actually own and maintain the roads and sidewalks in the neighborhoods and it is therefore considered private property.
So, an individual acting on behalf of the association on private property would have a little more bite to inquire about your intentions in the neighborhood. I did read a mention of the homeowners association in this case giving Zimmerman permission to act as a security officer on their behalf. As far as Treyvon just walking down the street and not committing a crime so no one has the right to question him goes; If you or I or anyone else matches the description of an individual, regardless of race, that has committed a crime, then yes you can be stopped and required to provide identification.

However, in my personal opinion I would have stayed in my vehicle and waited for police to arrive. I honestly think he will fry. If a person puts you in danger to the point that you need to defend yourself then so be it. But, if you put yourself in the situation and then it goes sideways, lookout for the bleeding heart liberals, you will fry.

 

[pokerace]

man slaughter.
911 told him to not follow him. had he listened a young kid would still be alive

Who is 911???? NOBODY they have NO authority to tell you ANYTHING.....

 

[SynapticSilence]

OK. Let's say I call 911. The situation is that I am armed and voluntarily tailing someone in the dark who, as far as I actually know hasn't done anything but is unknown to me. When I call 911, the first thing the person I get when I do identifies himself clearly as "Sanford Police Department", not "911". I then report the circumstances, which at this point is basically that a young man I don't know, who when asked I identify as probably black, is walking around in my neighborhood. Then the person begins running. I report this, clearly reporting that he's running toward the exit of the compound, not toward me. I'm breathing heavily, prompting the question of whether I am following him. I respond yes. At this point, I'm instructed that "We don't need you to do that." i respond, "OK". The argument that 911 can't tell anyone to do anything is invalidated by the fact that the person in this case clearly identified as "Sanford Police Department", not "911". As an armed citizen voluntarily interjecting myself into a situation that I myself have identified as potentially criminal, having called someone who clearly identifies himself as as an official agent of the Sanford Police Department, I should obey that instruction, if for no other reason than my own safety and legal protection. A transcript of my call records that I said I would stop following him. But when asked if I will meet police back at my truck, I say instead to have police call me on my cell phone and I'll tell them where to meet me. In short, I'm not retreating to a neutral position, which would be the best option in a situation I'm still describing as fluid and unstable. That is the reason I agree with the firearms instructor's previous comments I've taken four different firearms and personal defense courses and, except when at work for Washington County, which has a no firearms in the workplace policy, I'm always armed. All of the courses I've taken and the guidance I've received from my many friends in law enforcement stress 1) the need to refrain from unnecessary involvement in potential criminal activity unless there is an obvious imminent threat to my own or others' safety and 2) to follow the instructions of law enforcement when it's given. In this case, all I know is the person I got on the line identified as "Sanford Police Department.". Whether it's a 911 operator or not, the moment that identification is given and I'm told there is no need for me to continue following someone, my part in the incident is over. As a reasonable person, especially since I'm armed, I should return to my vehicle and wait for police to arrive, especially since I've been informed they're enroute. But for some reason I choose otherwise. And now I've shot and killed someone. Did something happen in the course of events that could have been prevented if I'd acted differently? That's the single salient question in the Zimmerman case. That's the question that'll be the basis for any prosecution. Take away all the issues of race, gun control, Zimmerman's self-selected role as neighborhood watch captain, his 40+ calls to 911 on incidents that clearly called for 911 and others that seem trivial, whether or not Trayvon Martin was a golden child or a drug-using thug, Zimmerman's personal legal history, whether or not Zimmerman felt his life was in danger in the moment he pulled the trigger, and that's what we're left with. If it were me, out there in the dark with my own weapon, I would have beat feet back to the safety of my vehicle as quickly as possible once someone who clearly identified himself as an official agent of law enforcement thanked me for my call and said my personal involvement was no longer necessary. And I'd be safe in my home now with my family, life, and reputation intact, feeling good that I'd done the right thing. Zimmerman wishes that's where he was right now. I can guarantee that. I take civil commitment cases to court and testify in these cases. I know how vigorously prosecuting attorneys pursue these case, even though they're civil cases, not criminal. By his own actions and choices that evening, Zimmerman, whether the shooting was righteous in the moment or not, has left a hole in any potential defense that the prosecution could drive a tank through. And they will, and when they go to court they'll have as many tanks as they can muster to do so, because that's their job once the charges are official. Nobody wins in this case now, regardless of the outcome. That's my opinion on all of this, plain and simple.

 

[swoop]

If Zimmerman draws a racist jury like OJ's, he'll swing. If he gets a unbias jury, he'll skate. Simple as that..

 

[Redcap]

OK. Let's say I call 911. The situation is that I am armed and voluntarily tailing someone in the dark who, as far as I actually know hasn't done anything but is unknown to me. When I call 911, the first thing the person I get when I do identifies himself clearly as "Sanford Police Department", not "911". I then report the circumstances, which at this point is basically that a young man I don't know, who when asked I identify as probably black, is walking around in my neighborhood. Then the person begins running. I report this, clearly reporting that he's running toward the exit of the compound, not toward me. I'm breathing heavily, prompting the question of whether I am following him. I respond yes. At this point, I'm instructed that "We don't need you to do that." i respond, "OK". The argument that 911 can't tell anyone to do anything is invalidated by the fact that the person in this case clearly identified as "Sanford Police Department", not "911". As an armed citizen voluntarily interjecting myself into a situation that I myself have identified as potentially criminal, having called someone who clearly identifies himself as as an official agent of the Sanford Police Department, I should obey that instruction, if for no other reason than my own safety and legal protection. A transcript of my call records that I said I would stop following him. But when asked if I will meet police back at my truck, I say instead to have police call me on my cell phone and I'll tell them where to meet me. In short, I'm not retreating to a neutral position, which would be the best option in a situation I'm still describing as fluid and unstable. That is the reason I agree with the firearms instructor's previous comments I've taken four different firearms and personal defense courses and, except when at work for Washington County, which has a no firearms in the workplace policy, I'm always armed. All of the courses I've taken and the guidance I've received from my many friends in law enforcement stress 1) the need to refrain from unnecessary involvement in potential criminal activity unless there is an obvious imminent threat to my own or others' safety and 2) to follow the instructions of law enforcement when it's given. In this case, all I know is the person I got on the line identified as "Sanford Police Department.". Whether it's a 911 operator or not, the moment that identification is given and I'm told there is no need for me to continue following someone, my part in the incident is over. As a reasonable person, especially since I'm armed, I should return to my vehicle and wait for police to arrive, especially since I've been informed they're enroute. But for some reason I choose otherwise. And now I've shot and killed someone. Did something happen in the course of events that could have been prevented if I'd acted differently? That's the single salient question in the Zimmerman case. That's the question that'll be the basis for any prosecution. Take away all the issues of race, gun control, Zimmerman's self-selected role as neighborhood watch captain, his 40+ calls to 911 on incidents that clearly called for 911 and others that seem trivial, whether or not Trayvon Martin was a golden child or a drug-using thug, Zimmerman's personal legal history, whether or not Zimmerman felt his life was in danger in the moment he pulled the trigger, and that's what we're left with. If it were me, out there in the dark with my own weapon, I would have beat feet back to the safety of my vehicle as quickly as possible once someone who clearly identified himself as an official agent of law enforcement thanked me for my call and said my personal involvement was no longer necessary. And I'd be safe in my home now with my family, life, and reputation intact, feeling good that I'd done the right thing. Zimmerman wishes that's where he was right now. I can guarantee that. I take civil commitment cases to court and testify in these cases. I know how vigorously prosecuting attorneys pursue these case, even though they're civil cases, not criminal. By his own actions and choices that evening, Zimmerman, whether the shooting was righteous in the moment or not, has left a hole in any potential defense that the prosecution could drive a tank through. And they will, and when they go to court they'll have as many tanks as they can muster to do so, because that's their job once the charges are official. Nobody wins in this case now, regardless of the outcome. That's my opinion on all of this, plain and simple.

tl;dr

Paragraphs are your friend.

 

[bikejunkie]

If Zimmerman draws a racist jury like OJ's, he'll swing. If he gets a unbias jury, he'll skate. Simple as that..

I'd say there's about a 0% chance of an unbiased jury for this case

 

[pokerace]

I have NEVER heard a 911 operator identified them selves other than 911 what is your emergence....Never have they identified them selves as Sanford Police Department except in doctered tapes....

 

[pokerace]

[QUOTSanford Police DepartmentTE] they NEVER do that...............

 

[slimmer13]

Looks like they just revoked his bond and he has 48 hrs to turn himself back in. Sad for him