Why did Zimmerman have a gun

[deen_ad]

"Brutally"????? Zimmerman may have been punched and got a bump on his head but "brutally attacked"? I don't think the injuries back up your "factual clarification".

Zimmerman had a broken nose, grass stains on his shirt and received medical attention for his head wounds. Pretty much consistent with being punched in the face, and having someone sit on your chest beating your head against the pavement with both hands. Looks like self defense to me (and I hope the jury).

 

[civilian75]

"Brutally"????? Zimmerman may have been punched and got a bump on his head but "brutally attacked"? I don't think the injuries back up your "factual clarification".

Hindsight is always 20/20. Just put yourself in Zims shoes. Here's this dude over you repeatedly banging your head on the curb. You are getting dizzy, world spinning around you, about to lose your consciousness, not knowing if he won't stop until after he sees your brains spilled out on the ground. What would you do? I know what I'd do.

I admit I have not been following this as close as many of you. The only thing I think might still convict Zimmerman is the 9-1-1 recording pleads for help. I do not know yet what to make if it.

 

[swoop]

Why is this information surprising to anyone?

I expected that Zimmerman would have some reason for carrying a gun. -As in, it was his RIGHT to do so. That's all anyone should need and indeed all any jury member will ever HEAR.

The issue is and will remain why Zimmerman shot an unarmed 17-y/o with no history whatever of any violence in response to what seems to me to be a basic misdemeanor assault that Zimmerman himself may well have provoked. -BY HIS OWN TESTIMONY.

Zimmerman is on VERY shaky legal ground. He may have had the right to shoot or may not have. But in all honesty, that's a question for a jury to decide, not that of a DA. I wouldn't be in Zimmerman's shoes for all the tea in China. But I reiterate here that if he had followed the guidelines of mine, or any other course's I've taken, he wouldn't be in this position today.

At BEST he made a giant mistake getting out of his car AFTER police had been called to a non-crime situation. He CHOSE to put himself in a situation where some confrontation was extremely likely. In Washington State, this comes VERY close to him becoming the "initial aggressor," where any claim he makes of self-defense becomes moot. He certainly comes nowhere near the 51% certainty required under Florida law which would preclude a criminal prosecution.

The lesson in this for all of us is: AVOID, if at all possible, any confrontation while armed, unless someone is in imminent physical danger. If you press that limit, you do so at your legal peril.

There are people who's job it is and whose legal obligations to do so are clear: POLICE AGENTS. That does NOT include random Joe Dumbass thinking he is the king of the neighborhood.

The Police agents will be there in time to write up a report over your dead body. People have a right to defend themselves when their life is in danger.

 

[Spad]

Alan Dershowitz, highly nationally respected Harvard lawyer said that this is a political farce, Zimmerman should not be indicted for second degree murder.He says the Prosecutor is a disgrace and should be indicted for false accusation and withholding information. Now that is something and interesting.Spad

 

[mjbskwim]

Why is this information surprising to anyone?

I expected that Zimmerman would have some reason for carrying a gun. -As in, it was his RIGHT to do so. That's all anyone should need and indeed all any jury member will ever HEAR.

The issue is and will remain why Zimmerman shot an unarmed 17-y/o with no history whatever of any violence in response to what seems to me to be a basic misdemeanor assault that Zimmerman himself may well have provoked. -BY HIS OWN TESTIMONY.

Zimmerman is on VERY shaky legal ground. He may have had the right to shoot or may not have. But in all honesty, that's a question for a jury to decide, not that of a DA. I wouldn't be in Zimmerman's shoes for all the tea in China. But I reiterate here that if he had followed the guidelines of mine, or any other course's I've taken, he wouldn't be in this position today.

At BEST he made a giant mistake getting out of his car AFTER police had been called to a non-crime situation. He CHOSE to put himself in a situation where some confrontation was extremely likely. In Washington State, this comes VERY close to him becoming the "initial aggressor," where any claim he makes of self-defense becomes moot. He certainly comes nowhere near the 51% certainty required under Florida law which would preclude a criminal prosecution.

The lesson in this for all of us is: AVOID, if at all possible, any confrontation while armed, unless someone is in imminent physical danger. If you press that limit, you do so at your legal peril.

There are people who's job it is and whose legal obligations to do so are clear: POLICE AGENTS. That does NOT include random Joe Dumbass thinking he is the king of the neighborhood.

Your guidelines?
Your guidelines?
Who are you anyway? A criminal expert? I've read your other posts ,talking about being a trainer or such and I'm not ready to follow you into battle,sorry

Why not follow the guy? Again either Martin wasn't supposed to be there or he could have just stopped,like a responsible adult,which he was a few moths from,and contacted George,telling him where he was going.
If his dad's GF lived there,she should have told him to contact the guy,cause there had been break ins by people that looked just like him.

See? we can spin this all over.

ANYONE shouldn't have to just sit in their car and hope that the trespasser or 'maybe' robber/thief just goes away,in there own neighborhood.

And I don't believe he's on very shaky ground at all.I believe the prosecution is doing him a favor by getting this behind him.He'll be tried and found innocent,as he should, and then he can't be tried again for it.
Otherwise he'll have it over his head forever.

And for your last statement,wait for the police? Seriously? Is that what you teach your students?

'There are agents,police agents that will come help you,so don't shoot the attacker'

Just remember to tell them that all the police will be doing is helping the coroner pick their body off the sidewalk.

Trevon could have made this whole thing go away ,also,just by acting a little like a responsible adult.
If he didn't have a propensity for violence,this never would have transpired the way it did.

 

[JGRuby]

Treyvon had no resposibility to do anything as he was not breaking the law in any way shape or manner. He did not even have to recognize Zimmerman. Treyvon was pursued because he was black - plain and simple. What one balck person does a crime all black people should be treated like criminals? Teyvon resemebled other black men that had been looting and or robbing. In my mnd ZImmerman escalated the situation by pursuing Treyvon and becuase Zimmerman was armed knew that he should have known that he was escalating the situation. Zimmerman called the police. Zimmerman could have followed directions and and could have stayed in his vehicle. Zimmerman also had been charged with an assualt on a police officer - not exactly a chior boy. I want Zimmerman to go down on this one. Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch that means he was suppose to watch not interact - that is the police / LEO's job.

James Ruby

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Your guidelines?
Your guidelines?
Who are you anyway? A criminal expert? I've read your other posts ,talking about being a trainer or such and I'm not ready to follow you into battle,sorry

Why not follow the guy? Again either Martin wasn't supposed to be there or he could have just stopped,like a responsible adult,which he was a few moths from,and contacted George,telling him where he was going.
If his dad's GF lived there,she should have told him to contact the guy,cause there had been break ins by people that looked just like him.

See? we can spin this all over.

ANYONE shouldn't have to just sit in their car and hope that the trespasser or 'maybe' robber/thief just goes away,in there own neighborhood.

And I don't believe he's on very shaky ground at all.I believe the prosecution is doing him a favor by getting this behind him.He'll be tried and found innocent,as he should, and then he can't be tried again for it.
Otherwise he'll have it over his head forever.

And for your last statement,wait for the police? Seriously? Is that what you teach your students?

'There are agents,police agents that will come help you,so don't shoot the attacker'

Just remember to tell them that all the police will be doing is helping the coroner pick their body off the sidewalk.

Trevon could have made this whole thing go away ,also,just by acting a little like a responsible adult.
If he didn't have a propensity for violence,this never would have transpired the way it did.

When seconds count the police are only minutes away

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Treyvon had no resposibility to do anything as he was not breaking the law in any way shape or manner. He did not even have to recognize Zimmerman. Treyvon was pursued because he was black - plain and simple. What one balck person does a crime all black people should be treated like criminals? Teyvon resemebled other black men that had been looting and or robbing. In my mnd ZImmerman escalated the situation by pursuing Treyvon and becuase Zimmerman was armed knew that he shoudl ahve known that he was escalating the situation. Zimmerman called the police. Zimmerman could have followed directions and and could have stayed in his vehicle. Zimmerman also had been charged with an assualt on a police officer - not exactly a chior boy. I want Zimmerman to go down on this one. Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch that means he was suppose to watch not interact - that is the police / LEO's job.

James Ruby

Children in your neighborhood have been attacked by young grey wolves. A young grey wolf is spotted in your neighborhood and is acting predatory.. you, as one the the neighborhood sheep dogs confront the wolf and ask him what his business is in your neighborhood, and he attacks you leaving you near knocked out with a broken nose. It is clearly a better fighter than you are. (If you were Zimmerman the sheepdog) You then realize he likely is one of the attackers of the children and you get up and follow him in order to assist the police in it's capture.. it attacks you again

What do you do?

Zimmerman may have made a tactical mistake in getting out of the vehicle but he clearly had the legal right to do so.. what exactly happened then can and will be debated in a court of law

 

[greydog111]

Treyvon had no resposibility to do anything as he was not breaking the law in any way shape or manner. He did not even have to recognize Zimmerman. Treyvon was pursued because he was black - plain and simple. What one balck person does a crime all black people should be treated like criminals? Teyvon resemebled other black men that had been looting and or robbing. In my mnd ZImmerman escalated the situation by pursuing Treyvon and becuase Zimmerman was armed knew that he shoudl ahve known that he was escalating the situation. Zimmerman called the police. Zimmerman could have followed directions and and could have stayed in his vehicle. Zimmerman also had been charged with an assualt on a police officer - not exactly a chior boy. I want Zimmerman to go down on this one. Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch that means he was suppose to watch not interact - that is the police / LEO's job.

James Ruby

Hey jimmyboy! Obviously you have all the "facts" in the case. Your typically naive portrayal of the situation is pathetic. Get some good sense and stop listening to the main stream media pablum that is being spoon fed to the sheeple. Zim made some tactical mistakes, but, has the right to self defence. Furthermore, please edit your comments for both spelling and grammar. You do a disservice to both yourself and we fellow posters. Greydog, out!

 

[JGRuby]

Children in your neighborhood have been attacked by young grey wolves. A young grey wolf is spotted in your neighborhood and is acting predatory.. you, as one the the neighborhood sheep dogs confront the wolf and ask him what his business is in your neighborhood, and he attacks you leaving you near knocked out with a broken nose. It is clearly a better fighter than you are. (If you were Zimmerman the sheepdog) You then realize he likely is one of the attackers of the children and you get up and follow him in order to assist the police in it's capture.. it attacks you again

What do you do?

Zimmerman may have made a tactical mistake in getting out of the vehicle but he clearly had the legal right to do so.. what exactly happened then can and will be debated in a court of law

So you are now comparing humans to grey wolves and dogs - come on - we do not operate by the same set of rules in society. Humans have rights and the beleif that they can mind thier own business. Wolves have only one purpose around sheep and that is dinner. Blitzkrieg your smarter than that.

James Ruby

 

[JGRuby]

Hey jimmyboy! Obviously you have all the "facts" in the case. Your typically naive portrayal of the situation is pathetic. Get some good sense and stop listening to the main stream media pablum that is being spoon fed to the sheeple. Zim made some tactical mistakes, but, has the right to self defence. Furthermore, please edit your comments for both spelling and grammar. You do a disservice to both yourself and we fellow posters. Greydog, out!

Zimmerman does not have the rright to pursue an inidividual that has committed no crime. Zimmerman knowing he was armed escalated the situation. Really dont care what you think about my posts - thats your problem.

James Ruby

 

[iomatic]

Your guidelines?
Your guidelines?
Who are you anyway? A criminal expert? I've read your other posts ,talking about being a trainer or such and I'm not ready to follow you into battle,sorry

Why not follow the guy? Again either Martin wasn't supposed to be there or he could have just stopped,like a responsible adult,which he was a few moths from,and contacted George,telling him where he was going.
If his dad's GF lived there,she should have told him to contact the guy,cause there had been break ins by people that looked just like him.

See? we can spin this all over.

ANYONE shouldn't have to just sit in their car and hope that the trespasser or 'maybe' robber/thief just goes away,in there own neighborhood.

And I don't believe he's on very shaky ground at all.I believe the prosecution is doing him a favor by getting this behind him.He'll be tried and found innocent,as he should, and then he can't be tried again for it.
Otherwise he'll have it over his head forever.

And for your last statement,wait for the police? Seriously? Is that what you teach your students?

'There are agents,police agents that will come help you,so don't shoot the attacker'

Just remember to tell them that all the police will be doing is helping the coroner pick their body off the sidewalk.

Trevon could have made this whole thing go away ,also,just by acting a little like a responsible adult.
If he didn't have a propensity for violence,this never would have transpired the way it did.

Wait what? Now it's the kid's fault he got shot? You have proof?

Zimmerman is obviously innocent until proven guilty but this last statement is just completely ridonk.

And now people are comparing young black males to predatory wolves?

There are both sides to the story but the claims on both ends of this little debate thread is full of wild and unfounded assumptions.

Back to the thread topic: Zimmerman had a gun because he was afraid for his life; whether he used it justly remains to be seen. All else is speculation before it goes to trial.

Please, /thread already.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

So you are now comparing humans to grey wolves and dogs - come on - we do not operate by the same set of rules in society. Humans have rights and the beleif that they can mind thier own business. Wolves have only one purpose around sheep and that is dinner. Blitzkrieg your smarter than that.

James Ruby

I am neutering your attempt to make this a racial issue by using logic

 

[JGRuby]

I am neutering your attempt to make this s racial issue by using logic

Everything that I have read inidcates that young black men had been committing breaking and entering. Zimmerman and others admit to this as does the article. Zimmerman see's a young black man and pursues him. I would beleive that if it had been a young white man this situation would not have occurred. Zimmerman was profiling and to some extent we all do. However we do not pursue someone that has not committed a crime - especially with a gun on us on a street. I know I dont as I do not have the legal right to do so. A neighbor hood watch is just that a watch and once the call was placed to LE he had no other purpose than to watch.

James Ruby

 

[rufus]

I am neutering your attempt to make this s racial issue by using logic

Well there's the problem, logic does not compute.

 

[biker bo]

Zimmerman had at least as much of a right to walk through a neighborhood that he lives in as the young Mr Martin.

Mr Martin has no right to attack someone for just following him.

To say otherwise is like using the same logic that a rape victom " ask for it by dressing that way "

 

[JGRuby]

Zimmerman had at least as much of a right to walk through a neighborhood that he lives in as the young Mr Martin.

Mr Martin has no right to attack someone for just following him.

To say otherwise is like using the same logic that a rape victom " ask for it by dressing that way "

Treyvon had the right to protect himself by someone that was pursuing him. There is a difference between following somone and pursuing someone. When you have a side arm on your position should be one of avidance not confrontation unless a crime has been committed. To my understanding Treyvon comitted no crime.

James Ruby

 

[kyzug]

Approaching someone in a public space isn't a crime.

Regarding the cries for help, it has been reported that Martin had no other wounds on his body, other than the gunshot. Zimmerman apparently didn't land any significant blow based on that. So who was more likely the guy crying for help? The guy on top that hadn't been significantly hit, or the guy on the bottom with a bloody nose and skull getting his butt whipped?

There is no way the Murder II charge will stick.

 

[JGRuby]

We can disagree all we want about who was right or wrong - until the jury makes thier decison it is all what each of us believe based on the info we have. Time will tell. I speak for myself and I am not a Zimmerman fan from what I have heard. Either way Zimmerman has a rough road ahead.

James Ruby

 

[LyleLovett666]

All you have to do to figure this situation out is look at the way the media has tried to shape the known facts in the case.They have obfuscated,distorted,manipulated and outright lied about near every facet involved.These are not the actions you take for an innocent person.However,if one wished to foment racial discord in order to try to reelect a faux messiah with questionable hopes to retain his office, this might be the way to go.