Why did Zimmerman have a gun

[rufus]

All you have to do to figure this situation out is look at the way the media has tried to shape the known facts in the case.They have obfuscated,distorted,manipulated and outright lied about near every facet involved.These are not the actions you take for an innocent person.However,if one wished to foment racial discord in order to try to reelect a faux messiah with questionable hopes to retain his office, this might be the way to go.

So true. Probably will not see this in the news tonight: Church and Brambleton

 

[biker bo]

Treyvon had the right to protect himself by someone that was pursuing him. There is a difference between following somone and pursuing someone. When you have a side arm on your position should be one of avidance not confrontation unless a crime has been committed. To my understanding Treyvon comitted no crime.

James Ruby

I not sure that pursuing is what happened. That in my mind would mean Mr Zimmerman was running after Mr Martin.

The corners report will remove all dout as to the the position of both when the shot was fired.

What I don't understand is the defence of Mr Martin for the attack on Zimmerman if that's indeed what happened.

I have people that follow me every day down the sidewalk , in stores and at work . I don't feel the need to kick there butt
And if I did I dout you would be coming to my defense.

It would seem as responsible citizens in OUR OWN COMMUNITY we no longer have the right to follow someone because we may interfere with there rights IF they chose to comit a criminal act.

I'm not saying Martin was a criminal but he passed through a neighborhood that he didn't live in and acted like a criminal
When followed.

I'm sorry but that was a bad choice on Mr Martins part and he paided the price.

 

[JGRuby]

The problem is that those people that follow you are not necessarily focusing on you other than to get past you - in this case Zimmerman was focusing his attention on a person that did not act or commit a criminal action. How do you know Treyvon was not acting in self defense - I dont but it is a very resonable postion until further information comes out. Why was Treyvon reported as being suspicious - because he was walking home in the dark with a hoodie on in a neighborhood he had a right to be in and was black?

James Ruby

 

[biker bo]

James we all know why he was reported to the police.

He was a young black male that did not live in the neighborhood and was wearing a hody.

The neighborhood had a crime wave committed young black males that don't live there and wear hodys.
If theses crimes had been pulled off by white grandmothers wearing jogging clothes treavon would most likely be alive today.

When police are called to the seen of a liquor store robbery that was held up by two young black males who do you think they are looking at they approach the store. Asians, Hispanics,whites?????

I know Zimmerman was not LEO . However when asked to take on the duty of watch captain he steped up.

If you lived in that neighborhood and been asked James what would your answer have been.

Most of the time when crimes like this happen its only a matter of time before it turns into rape and murder.

None of lived in that neighborhood. We can't know the fear they lived with. If you lived there James you might have completly different outlook.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Well there's the problem, logic does not compute.

For many this is oh, so true

 

[deen_ad]

Approaching someone in a public space isn't a crime.

Regarding the cries for help, it has been reported that Martin had no other wounds on his body, other than the gunshot. Zimmerman apparently didn't land any significant blow based on that. So who was more likely the guy crying for help? The guy on top that hadn't been significantly hit, or the guy on the bottom with a bloody nose and skull getting his butt whipped?

There is no way the Murder II charge will stick.

Reportedly Treyvons' father has said the voice calling for help on the tape is NOT his son. I don't expect Zimmerman to be found guilty UNLESS the Justice Dept and President get into it in the background. "We have a few things to do but in the background" to paraphrase something the President has already said in regards to gun control.

 

[deen_ad]

We can disagree all we want about who was right or wrong - until the jury makes thier decison it is all what each of us believe based on the info we have. Time will tell. I speak for myself and I am not a Zimmerman fan from what I have heard. Either way Zimmerman has a rough road ahead.

James Ruby

A judge should throw out the Second Degree Murder charge to start.

Definition of Second Degree Murder

The crime of Second Degree Murder occurs when a person commits either:

Murder with a Depraved Mind or
Accomplice Felony Murder

Murder with a Depraved Mind

Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

The primary distinction between Premeditated First Degree Murder and Second Degree Murder with a Depraved Mind is that First Degree Murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.

Accomplice Felony Murder

Accomplice Felony Second Degree Murder occurs when you are an accomplice to a person who kills another human being while engaged in the commission, or attempted commission, of the following statutorily enumerated felonies, regardless of whether they intended the death:

 

[Kevatc]

Hindsight is always 20/20. Just put yourself in Zims shoes. Here's this dude over you repeatedly banging your head on the curb. You are getting dizzy, world spinning around you, about to lose your consciousness, not knowing if he won't stop until after he sees your brains spilled out on the ground. What would you do? I know what I'd do.

I admit I have not been following this as close as many of you. The only thing I think might still convict Zimmerman is the 9-1-1 recording pleads for help. I do not know yet what to make if it.

Interesting that you admit you haven't been following the case but had no problem presenting heresay as fact. Zimmerman has been on the news and while he may have been punched, might even have a bump on the head, perhaps even a broken nose (I don't see it myself and I see my fair share of broken noses each year) I don't think it's fair to say Zimmermen was "brutally" attacked. Had he been truely brutally attacked and the evidence supported it this thread would've been about 10 posts long and dropped.

 

[LyleLovett666]

I've been followed in stores before and my reaction was to simply let them follow me.I wasn't up to anything so no harm no foul.I didn't like it but common sense told me no good would come from a confrontation.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Interesting that you admit you haven't been following the case but had no problem presenting heresay as fact. Zimmerman has been on the news and while he may have been punched, might even have a bump on the head, perhaps even a broken nose (I don't see it myself and I see my fair share of broken noses each year) I don't think it's fair to say Zimmermen was "brutally" attacked. Had he been truely brutally attacked and the evidence supported it this thread would've been about 10 posts long and dropped.

A broken nose, bloodied head smashed into the ground repeatedly? Get real.. and while we are getting real, read this

A beating at Church and Brambleton | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

 

[biker bo]

I feel that many who posting against Zimmerman have never found themselves in a situation where they are no longer in control of their own fate.

There's no evidence to contradict Zimmerman account of that night. If in fact he was on the ground being attacked whit no help around I can understand why he fired.

I posted about a encounter that took place at my house Saturday night in preparedness and surviveal. I colud have become the next Zimmerman.

I can tell you these events unfold VERY quickly and there are no do overs.

 

[JGRuby]

Treyvon had every right to be in that neighborhood since he was with his father visiting a friend. Is there something illegal with hoodies, as long as it isnt indecent I beleive that you have every right to wear pretty much what you want to.

In the case of a liquor store robbery scenario that you use where a crime had actually been committed - I do not know if a crime had been committed the night Treyvon got shot but I doubt it since the police weren't in the area to respond fast enough to Zimmermans phone call and even so the act of running may be suspcious but in itself is not a crime.

You are correct Zimmerman is not LE and had no repsonsibilities past calling in Treyvon - that is as far as Zimmerman should have proceeded since there was no evidence that Treyvon had committed a crime, Treyvon was simplay a suspicious person because he was black male wearing a hoodie at night in a neighborhood he did not live in but had every right to be there. My answer is that I would be a neighbor hood watch - but I would have a scanner, I would have a side arm, a cell phone and list of phone numbers for the neighborhood. I also would note that my repsonsibilities were to contact the police if I saw something wrong. I would not assume that I had the same legal positoion as law enforcement and engasge until I actually saw a crime in action. I would also have something on my vehicle or my person that inidcated that I was the neighbor hood watch so that anyone could identify me as such.

Most of the time the crime turns into rape and murder - that may be so but a base principal passed onto me was that you are innocent - until their is evidence that you committed a crime. I feel that seeing a person run down the street with a jewlry box, or crawling in a window or such is evidence for me to think that something is going on - in ths case the only thing Treyvon did was to run and hide from Zimmerman. It may or may not turn into rape and murder. there is no certainty of that. To me the individual who lives int he house being robbed needs to react as needed to stop the crime - Zimmerman saw nothing that has been documented except a young man running and hiding. The neighborhood watch is simply to watch and report suspicious activities.

My house has had one attempted break in, one successful break in, My wifes old business had been broken into and her storage locker has been broken into within the last four years. In all cases but one the thiefs were successsful. In only the one where they broke into my house - if I was home I feel that deadly force might have been used. People forget that the protection of property is not cause to use deadly force, at least not in Oregon.


James Ruby

 

[JGRuby]

A broken nose, bloodied head smashed into the ground repeatedly? Get real.. and while we are getting real, read this

A beating at Church and Brambleton | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

What proof do you have that Treyvon wasnt protecting himself from an over zealous Zimmerman with a god complex?

James Ruby

 

[JGRuby]

I feel that many who posting against Zimmerman have never found themselves in a situation where they are no longer in control of their own fate.

There's no evidence to contradict Zimmerman account of that night. If in fact he was on the ground being attacked whit no help around I can understand why he fired.

I posted about a encounter that took place at my house Saturday night in preparedness and surviveal. I colud have become the next Zimmerman.

I can tell you these events unfold VERY quickly and there are no do overs.

The difference is that Zimmerman put himself into the situation - you and your family did not.

James Ruby

 

[jimwsea]

Once again, there are people here making conclusions without any real facts.

1. The article itself states: "After the phone call ended, several minutes passed when the movements of Zimmerman and Martin remain a mystery."

2. Twice, in previous threads, I gave a true story about how I was attacked in junior high school. The other guy threw a punch and I quickly turned the tables, bringing the guy to the ground and sitting on top of him. A teacher came around the corner and assumed I was the aggressor. I got up and walked away without throwing one punch.

Unfortunately for both parties, the truth is buried. Apparently, there are no observers who saw how this event started. And yeah, it sucks to live in that neighborhood.

 

[biker bo]

If Zimmerman shot this kid in cold blood he needs to be put away for life. As of now we don't have all the facts so I'm inclined to believe his account of that night. His face and head tends to back up what he has said.

If Martin doesn't have powder burns Or if the bullet path match the story ...... Well that would make Zimmerman guilty.

James I respect you views but I cant agree with you conclusions. Everybody has said that Martin being sent home from school for a baggy whith pot doesn't matter. The posting of pictures of him at age 12 to slant the public away from the fact the fact that Martin was over 6' tall and weighted about 170 pounds. The picture I've seen of Martin shows him with his pants hanging down boxers pulled up hat on sideways ,no shirt and flipping off the camera with both hands.

None of the above is illegal but it does not paint the picture of Martin that the press wants us to see.

I for one do not want to be feed B.S. Information and false facts as the truth. So until I see hard evidence to the contrary I'm siding with Zimmerman and his right to defend himself.

 

[rufus]

***BANG!***

Everybody looks and sees you standing over a guy on the ground. And there is a gun in your hand. You are screwed. It does not matter that there is a knife/gun in the other guys hand. You shot that poor guy, and he is now dead.

This whole Zimmerman thing should be a lesson for us all. Like my CHL instructor drilled into my head: you want witnesses, but only the right kind. The kind that witnessed you defend your life. Make a scene if you can. There should be no doubt about it, you had no choice.

 

[JGRuby]

If Zimmerman shot this kid in cold blood he needs to be put away for life. As of now we don't have all the facts so I'm inclined to believe his account of that night. His face and head tends to back up what he has said.

If Martin doesn't have powder burns Or if the bullet path match the story ...... Well that would make Zimmerman guilty.

James I respect you views but I cant agree with you conclusions. Everybody has said that Martin being sent home from school for a baggy whith pot doesn't matter. The posting of pictures of him at age 12 to slant the public away from the fact the fact that Martin was over 6' tall and weighted about 170 pounds. The picture I've seen of Martin shows him with his pants hanging down boxers pulled up hat on sideways ,no shirt and flipping off the camera with both hands.

None of the above is illegal but it does not paint the picture of Martin that the press wants us to see.

I for one do not want to be feed B.S. Information and false facts as the truth. So until I see hard evidence to the contrary I'm siding with Zimmerman and his right to defend himself.

I support your postion - we will wait and see. I support Zimmermans or any others individuals right to defend themselve in a court of law. I know what the media wants us to beleive and what others have said and stated. I will wait to see the outcome of the jury but I have a feeling this will get much more ugly before it is done. I have not lived a charmed life and have had situations that I just as soon as not been involved with, I myself could have been in Zimmermans shoes. A person has a right to defend thiers and themself but does not have a right to go looking for a fight. We will see. Too bad Treyvon does not have any ability to testify as right now all we have is Zimmerman's testimony, kind of one sided.

James Ruby

 

[swoop]

It tells a lot that the cops and detectives spent a month trying to find a reason to arrest Zimmerman, and could not. It was not until the race baiter's, Jackson and Sharpton came to town with their rhetoric, and NBC sent out a doctored up 911 tape, that the city was pushed into making the arrest.

 

[pokerace]

If Zimmerman shot this kid in cold blood he needs to be put away for life. As of now we don't have all the facts so I'm inclined to believe his account of that night. His face and head tends to back up what he has said.

If Martin doesn't have powder burns Or if the bullet path match the story ...... Well that would make Zimmerman guilty.

James I respect you views but I cant agree with you conclusions. Everybody has said that Martin being sent home from school for a baggy whith pot doesn't matter. The posting of pictures of him at age 12 to slant the public away from the fact the fact that Martin was over 6' tall and weighted about 170 pounds. The picture I've seen of Martin shows him with his pants hanging down boxers pulled up hat on sideways ,no shirt and flipping off the camera with both hands.

None of the above is illegal but it does not paint the picture of Martin that the press wants us to see.

I for one do not want to be feed B.S. Information and false facts as the truth. So until I see hard evidence to the contrary I'm siding with Zimmerman and his right to defend himself.

just about exactly what I would say.