WHY attire matters...

[Kevinkris]

none of that means its okay to call that "criminal profiling" in order to side step 4A rights. it has been used to harass a great deal of people of all races. sure a lot of people will says its just a racial problem but its really not in my mind. just because myself or other are dressed in a specific way that is considered inappropriate (in any way) or looking like a "punk" does not make them a criminal. if you want to take into consideration the actions of what a person is doing or their demeanor we might have a different conversation but taking their clothing into consideration when judging their personality is just ridiculous and disrespectful to others.

 

[The B]

I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if this has been covered or not.. but the WHOLE problem with "profiling" of any kind, whether racial, "criminal," clothingal, whatever.. is that no matter how non-discriminatory you try to be about it, you'll never find an appearance profile that's even remotely accurate, as far as the numbers go.

It's a reverse engineer... You look at the stats- (these are all made up) criminals who wear headgear wear: hooded sweatshirts 14%, baseball caps 9%, and knit caps 4%, other .09%. So you start watching people wearing hooded sweatshirts, and increase your pre-crime arrest rate by 2.1% for the following year. Woohoo, we saved lives.

But what this fails to take into account is that it's really just a cheat... because 99.945% of people wearing hooded sweatshirts aren't committing crimes. So you watch, harass, Terry-stop, and even occasionally completely, blatantly violate the rights of, everyone wearing a hoodie, when only .165% of them are committing crimes.

It's just a stupid blot on paper... you haven't made the world a better place. All you've done is breed resentment among an entire sub-culture of your population.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Actions, clothing, demeanor, location, sometimes race or gender, time of day, age. Does it all fit or is something out of place? I'm not suspending common sense for political correctness. I'll take a chance of offending someone to save my life or property. Profiling is an imperfect tool that has been abused by racists I'll admit but it has it's place and I choose to stay aware of my surroundings. On a side note I've been profiled by cops a few times in my life. Me and my brother(white) driving through a black residential area (shortcut) stopped by a black officer. Questioned us why we were in that neighborhood. Turns out a lot of drugs were being sold around there by blacks to whites. Didn't tick me off too much at the time but I'll agree cops should have a higher standard on stopping people.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if this has been covered or not.. but the WHOLE problem with "profiling" of any kind, whether racial, "criminal," clothingal, whatever.. is that no matter how non-discriminatory you try to be about it, you'll never find an appearance profile that's even remotely accurate, as far as the numbers go.

It's a reverse engineer... You look at the stats- (these are all made up) criminals who wear headgear wear: hooded sweatshirts 14%, baseball caps 9%, and knit caps 4%, other .09%. So you start watching people wearing hooded sweatshirts, and increase your pre-crime arrest rate by 2.1% for the following year. Woohoo, we saved lives.

But what this fails to take into account is that it's really just a cheat... because 99.945% of people wearing hooded sweatshirts aren't committing crimes. So you watch, harass, Terry-stop, and even occasionally completely, blatantly violate the rights of everyone wearing a hoodie, when only .165% of them are committing crimes.

It's just a stupid blot on paper... you haven't made the world a better place. All you've done is breed resentment among an entire sub-culture of your population.

One statistic that is probably spot on is 100% of wall street insider trading crooks wear suits! or pantsuits if they're woman.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

My dad lives in Fl. and they made him remove his hat and sunglasses to go in one of the banks there. Should he have been mad? He didn't go in because he has a massive comb over that wasn't cooperating that day lol! A lot of bank robbers wear hats and glasses though.

 

[The B]

My dad lives in Fl. and they made him remove his hat and sunglasses to go in one of the banks there. Should he have been mad? He didn't go in because he has a massive comb over that wasn't cooperating that day lol! A lot of bank robbers wear hats and glasses though.

That's not profiling, though- it's simply adjusting the environment to make it less friendly to criminals. A blanket policy of making everyone wearing dark glasses and hat remove them isn't an accusation that they're criminals- it's simply denying criminals the ability to use those tactics. It's like having a blanket policy of leaving your backpack in a locker when you go into the campus bookstore.

Profiling, on the other hand, isn't making people wearing hooded sweatshirts take them off, it's weaseling your way into singling them out for searches and scrutinizing them significantly more than everyone else around them. If it was just a matter of making them take their sweatshirts off, the rights violation and extra scrutiny wouldn't factor in.

 

[The B]

Not to say I'm OK with asking people to remove their hats and dark glasses, or even backpacks... I think it's bubblegumin retarded, in fact. Just as with profiling, it might make a fraction of a percent difference in crime rates, but inconveniences a HUGE percentage of people needing to frequent the establishment.

I just think it's piss poor customer service model.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Am I missing something, are people with hoodies really being profiled to a great extent or is this just media hype? As you can see by my above posts I'll profile anybody just for kicks!
But really I've never thought much about hoodies before now.

 

[The B]

I don't know, I was just using it as an example

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

Not to say I'm OK with asking people to remove their hats and dark glasses, or even backpacks... I think it's bubblegumin retarded, in fact. Just as with profiling, it might make a fraction of a percent difference in crime rates, but inconveniences a HUGE percentage of people needing to frequent the establishment.

I just think it's piss poor customer service model.

Banks could be designed so that the tellers have thick glass between them and the customer like I've seen in Europe a lot. Crime proof.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

I don't know, I was just using it as an example

I think Sharpton just started using it like a metaphor for racism or something, now all the hoodie wearing people are up in arms too.

BTW the UNIBOMBER was wearing a hoodie before it was cool to wear one!

 

[Kevinkris]

Am I missing something, are people with hoodies really being profiled to a great extent or is this just media hype? As you can see by my above posts I'll profile anybody just for kicks!
But really I've never thought much about hoodies before now.

yes it is happening. ive been stopped 3 times this year while walking down the street wearing a hoodie at night. this is not an area free of criminals but we hardly need to have the area combed for them. of course im not the only one that has been stopped like that, ive seen others with the same problem here. it is not reasonable to assume someone is wearing a hoodie to commit a crime. sure maybe it makes it easy to conceal your face but it doesnt mean we are all up to no good. profiling makes it easy for cops to cross the line and they take full advantage. as far as im concerned the police should stay out of my way (and others) until i have committed a crime. if their presence would prevent crime, fine but anything more is crossing the line.

 

[ArgyleAdams]

Just how DO you "profile" someone covered from head to toe when you can't see what they look like?

Seems like you already are "profiling" (and are advocating the "profiling" of) folks who wear hoodies. It's the identification that's the difficulty.

"A lot of criminals hide their faces by wearing hoodies, so let's be suspicious of all hoodie-wearers" sounds a lot like "a lot of criminals carry guns, so let's be suspicious of all gun owners." What you own and what you wear are not grounds enough for suspicion. Most people who wear hoodies will never commit a crime, just as most gun owners will never commit a crime.

You're more likely to get robbed by someone in a suit anyway (and for a much larger sum of money).

Sent from a phone; typos likely

 

[U201491]

Hoodie = urban ghillie for gangbangers.

Hows that for profiling.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Just remember that the original meaning of "hood" (as in gangster) comes from an old favorite "Robbing Hood" (changed to "Robin Hood").

In the old days, people wore hoods for many reasons, one of which was to disguise their appearance. In that sense, this is a centuries old idea that hoods are bad things..

 

[GOG]

Political correctness has destroyed common sense. Is it profiling or situational awareness? It all depends on many circumstances; behavior, area, etc. Clothing is just one factor. I'd rather be thought of unkindly than dead or injured.

 

[CoastRange57]

i think trench coats were out of style for a long time before that lol. i guess except for when you were wearing a suit.

I used to wear one when I played bass in a bar band. John Entwhistle looked good wearing one so I though what the he11. Looked better than it was functional, usually had to take it off after the first set.

 

[CoastRange57]

Criminals wear hoodies to conceal their outward identity. Plain and simple. If you conceal your profile, you reduce the chance of ANYBODY identifying you, police or not. If you are driving down the road with a hoodie on, you are trying to keep LEO from getting a look at you and hooking you on your 23 warrants you have. Same with window tint. Both will get an LEO to look at you closer, and look for that needed PC to stop and FIR you, which usually happens with criminal types in pretty short order, then they start the "profiling" bulls**t.

A hoodie reduces your side vision, and would be an obstruction to driving. I banned them from being worn when driving my company vehicles or operating equipment. To me, they reduce your ability to assess situational awareness, reduce your ability to hear what is behind you and have far more draw backs than positive features.

 

[duane black]

Interesting discussion for sure.

There is a african american man we have come across here in vancouver multiple times. He drives a new mercedes benz, has a gold bracelet on each arm and a thick gold chain, dresses exceptionally, walks and talks like he is from the street.

Honestly he is very similar in looks and demeanor as the Oakland rapper Too-$hort. My wife jokingly says he has swagger, yep, he does.

This man is my childs pediatric dentist.

Being from California one thing I have learned about people in the bay area, they can be nothing like you expect, or be everything you expect.

You can have a teen from east oakland that looks and acts like a REAL gangster, yet he is a 4.0 student, star athlete with a full college ride come graduation. He also could be a stone cold killer.

I go with my gut, I have been wrong before though. Hoodie means nothing to me. I have a hoodie in my closet... Hoodie and bandana covering the face, well I might profile then.

 

[dmancornell]

Criminals wear hoodies to conceal their outward identity. Plain and simple. If you conceal your profile, you reduce the chance of ANYBODY identifying you, police or not. If you are driving down the road with a hoodie on, you are trying to keep LEO from getting a look at you and hooking you on your 23 warrants you have. Same with window tint. Both will get an LEO to look at you closer, and look for that needed PC to stop and FIR you, which usually happens with criminal types in pretty short order, then they start the "profiling" bulls**t.

Eyes on the road, piggy.

The notion that one needs to dress in an easily identifiable way to satiate the prejudices of state security goons is ludicrous.