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WHY attire matters...

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Dave Workman, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Murder suspect may have worn hooded sweatshirt

    Reports of an early Monday morning shooting that left one man dead and another one wounded in Seattle’s Eastlake neighborhood contain one detail that should not be lost on people too quick to judge others who might be a bit nervous about seeing someone in a hoodie.

    Murder suspect 'may have worn hooded sweatshirt' - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com


    :paranoid: :huh:

    Just how DO you "profile" someone covered from head to toe when you can't see what they look like?
     
  2. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    honestly, im not seeing a point behind the article. ive read a lot of your work and the point has always been clear, this time i cant see it.
     
  3. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Just how DO you "profile" someone covered from head to toe when you can't see what they look like?
     
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  4. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Seems pretty clear to me even without Dave's post (#3) above.


    Deen
    NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
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    "A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"
     
  5. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    yea but how is profiling acceptable when the person isnt wearing a ski mask? profiling is just a ridiculous practice used to side step your 4A rights.
     
  6. Garg

    Garg east of portland metro Hold my beer..... watch this Bronze Supporter

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    Mkay, so hoodies and ninja suits (I assume) are bad.... for "profiling"....I guess....

    Thanks for that Capt. Obvious.
     
  7. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You must not spend much time dealing with criminals. We're not talking about profiling, and I'm getting awful close to saying that you know it.

    What we're talking about is the B.S. argument that seeing some strange person walking through a neighborhood wearing a hoodie (or hooded sweatshirt) isn't racial profiling, but it could easily be "criminal" profiling.

    As the Seattle case demonstrates, sometimes people wearing hooded garments are definitely up to no good. There's ample reason for suspicion, because of cases like this morning's double shooting/single homicide. If that guy was wearing a hooded sweatshirt, it wouldn't be the first time someone so dressed has committed a violent crime. Bank security cameras load up with images of hooded robbers. Security videos show property crime and even robbery committed by hood-wearing scumbags who use the hood not to keep rain off their head (when there is no rain) but to keep from being identified by security cameras.

    Then we fall back to the popular question about profiling: How many Irish Catholics hijacked airplanes on 9-11?

    Inevitably, there are cases in which profiling is justified. There are cases that contribute to profiling as a reflex.

    Aloha cannot possibly be that isolated that someone from there doesn't get this.
     
  8. muppetman

    muppetman Eastside Active Member

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    Serious question....

    When does 'profiling' and cultural 'stereotypes' cease to be such and instead are more so an accurate reflection of reality?
     
  9. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    For the answer, perhaps one should watch today's "Talking Points" at the start of O'Reilly's show on Fox. It'll be on again at 8 p.m. and 1 p.m. in the morning.
     
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  10. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    Depends. Is "black" an adjective or a noun? If you use it as a noun in your description, perhaps it is the result of profiling. If you use black as an adjective, it is just a description of a suspect.

    Seems simple, but in practice it is difficult. Back in the 70's we used to have "Race Relations" classes once a year in the Army. One question was "What would you say if your daughter wanted to marry a black man?" My response was "It depends on whether she wants to marry a man who is black or a Black man. In the case she wants to marry a Black man, that will wear off soon. If she wants to marry a man who is black, fine." Adjectives are descriptive, nouns are different.
     
  11. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    oh no, i understand you are speaking of criminal profiling. also being a person who was stopped cuffed and searched on the side of the street for wearing a hooded sweat shirt, i can tell you its complete BS to use a single garment to justify profiling a person as a criminal. the problem with allowing the police or any other LEOs to use a hoodie to search someone is the simple fact that it is rare to find a person that does not have a single sweater or coat that does not have a hood. it would be almost as bad as saying it you are wearing shoes, you are up to no good.
     
  12. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy between springfield and shelbyville Well-Known Member

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    Wow.

    Poor form, Dave. Poor form.

    Either someone has gotten a job writing for ONN, or they're pi$$ing away their credibility at an unprecedented rate.

    Personally, i'm MUCH more leery about people who wear baseball caps as they are worn far more often during the commission of violent crimes than hoodies.

    cluu.jpg
     
  13. BlakeStone

    BlakeStone Everett, WA Member

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    sure, it's hoodies now. right after columbine, I had to stop wearing my really cool full length leather jacket due to the looks I was getting.
     
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  14. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    i think trench coats were out of style for a long time before that lol. i guess except for when you were wearing a suit.
     
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  15. OLDNEWBIE

    OLDNEWBIE State of Flux Well-Known Member

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    Most of the time profiling is just being aware. Other times it's stereotyping of course but when did it become such an awful thing? Hoodie= youngish wanna be cool person until I see otherwise up close. Add dark skin color to that in a retirement villiage = a little out of place. Old white person walking at night in all black neighborhood= alzheimers walkabout, until I see more. Young lady in high heels, hot pants and skimpy blouse and way too much make-up on the corner with her head in the window of a car talking to middle aged white slob?=oldest profession or sting operation! Don't like being stereotyped? Dress different or shut up! That includes tie dyed pony tailed old hippies and Nerdy guys with pocket protectors and cowboy booted western shirt wearing dudes and white faced black spiked hair with long black coat and, and, and.......... BTW my uniform is known as the "Fuddy Duddy" and I don't care if people make assumptions based on my attire as long as you don't discriminate against me after we meet!
     
  16. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    so your saying we should all conform to that dress standards of others when we want to walk on the side of the road? you can keep the fuddy duddy, ill keep my low cost and comfortable hoodie. to hell with anyone that tells me i should dress a certain way so that my rights wont be violated. until i commit a crime, i wont have anyone tell me to wear anything that i do not choose. that right is taken from prisoners, not free men.
     
  17. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    dress depends on location. While stationed in Germany as a younger man, I would dress differently depending on which club/restaurant I was going to that evening. If it was a nice place, I would dress in white shirt, slacks and tie. If it was a "youth" club, I'd just dress as the same way the locals dressed. It all depends on what you want to do, fit in or make a statement.
     
  18. OLDNEWBIE

    OLDNEWBIE State of Flux Well-Known Member

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    Wear what you want, just don't get bent out of shape if as Obama put it someone clicks their car door as you walk by. That's not violating anyones rights.
    BTW never liked hoodies, like wearing blinders or something LOL. If you are honest, you profile, everyone does as in my examples. Hoodies mean possible young punk to some people, dangerous I guess. Personally I've seen all types of people with them including my wife and kids and never thought about them until Zimmerman/Trayvon. For me it takes the baggie pants hanging low for me to get annoyed but that's just me.
     
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  19. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    yea, the problem still lies in the opinions of people. wearing a hoodie does not make you more likely to commit crime nor is it okay to stop a person wearing a hoodie because you think you are about to prevent a crime. i personally dont care about what happened with zimmerman or martin, aside from it was a bad thing that happened (regardless of your stance on it). nothing in no way makes it okay to profile a person for wearing one of the most common articles of clothing, nor any other type of regular clothing. if you see a young guy walking by wearing a hoodie and you think "young punk" purely based on his attire, maybe you should just stay home.
     
  20. OLDNEWBIE

    OLDNEWBIE State of Flux Well-Known Member

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    If I was as worried as you about what people thought about my dress, I would stay home or change. As I said, Baggie, hanging down pants means punk to me, not hoodies. Also on my list of stereotypes are, Older man at beach in speedos= European, Younger man at beach in speedos= possibly gay, Older man in luxury car with hot trophy wife= Rich guy, Hot wife with older rich guy= Gold digger. Everybody stereotypes to one extent or another. I'm just being honest and mean no evil intent by these observations. It would never hinder any business I may have with them so nobodies rights are violated even as they profile me as a "square" to use an old term!