What would you consider an accurate powder measurement?

[oremike]

Looks good, shoot away!

 

[ddjchemist]

Looks good, shoot away!

If you do not see me online later this evening, then you would know I did a crapy job (just joking).

 

[Dr Prepper]

They may not be sympathetic to an alchemy-based line of questioning.
Craft your question(s) carefully.


IOW, gun manufacturers want you to be using factory ammo.
So there's that.

That's entirely sad. I don't know if i could support a mfgr with their head that far in the sand. I think id want one that would encourage it!
Damn the lawyers!

 

[Dr Prepper]

Here are my first cartridges ready to shoot. Unfortunately, after loading only 3 cartridges, I have to stop. I busted my electronic balance (dropped it on the floor and now it is not working). I am right now looking if any stores in the area have one. If not, will look to order one ASAP.
I am using old RCBS JR2 press and RCBS hand priming tool. So far, they seem to do a good job. I will shoot at least 3 of these cartridges later today (I am heading to the range around 4pm) and compare them to factory loads that shoot accurate in my rifle. The 3 live reloaded cases have 49.5gr IMR-4064 powder and Sierra Match-King 168gr bullets. According to Lyman's manual, the powder charge for this combo is 45.0gr min to 50.0 gr max. All 3 cartridges have the exact donor brass (Federal from a same factory ammo box) and the exact neck OD of .333. The bullets are all tight.

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Just a heads up!
Watch your pressure signs closely ON THE FIRST ROUND.
My Hornady (10th ed.) Shows 51.9gn MAX @ 2800 fps. And the next lowest @ 49.6
So according to that your kinda near max. Usually you down-load 10% of MAX.
so... 51.9÷100= .519gn then × 90(%) = 46.71gn. That should be closer to your starting load.
This is for 165gn-168gn HORNADY bullets. Hornady book only lists hornady components.

You can also go to imr's website and get their data online as well so you have three sources. The more sources you can very the better. Maybe you'll get lucky and find one using your exact combo of case, powder, primer, bullet. But not likely. If that's the case id feel safe loading to within 5% or less. Maybe 3%. All depends on how much of gambler you are!

Stay safe out there!

 

[oremike]

If you do not see me online later this evening, then you would know I did a crapy job (just joking).

If I don't see you here later I ll just figure that you hit it out of the park on the first try and have no questions

 

[Dr Prepper]

If I don't see you here later I ll just figure that you hit it out of the park on the first try and have no questions

Or at the tavern celebrating

 

[Dr Prepper]

Just a heads up!
Watch your pressure signs closely ON THE FIRST ROUND.
My Hornady (10th ed.) Shows 51.9gn MAX @ 2800 fps. And the next lowest @ 49.6
So according to that your kinda near max. Usually you down-load 10% of MAX.
so... 51.9÷100= .519gn then × 90(%) = 46.71gn. That should be closer to your starting load.
This is for 165gn-168gn HORNADY bullets. Hornady book only lists hornady components.

You can also go to imr's website and get their data online as well so you have three sources. The more sources you can very the better. Maybe you'll get lucky and find one using your exact combo of case, powder, primer, bullet. But not likely. If that's the case id feel safe loading to within 5% or less. Maybe 3%. All depends on how much of gambler you are!

Stay safe out there!

View attachment 894170

An addendum to my previous post...
It DOES look like you are kinda close to max load with your first rounds there.
That's two sources that are somewhat in agreement. The hodgdon load data is even more conservative @ what 50.8 almost a full grain less than Hornady lists as max.
So heads up.. Be safe. Hope you read this in time.

 

[Steel Head]

When you neck size only there's no need to lube. That's one of the things I love about neck sizing. If you saw my thread from today you'll see the results of my technique.

I neck size often for my 260.
it's only benefit is how simple and fast it makes reloading.
run through Lee collet
Prime
Powder
Seat bullet
Shoot

 

[ddjchemist]

This evening was the happiest day of my shooting ever. I finally made it to my range (Issaquah Sportsman's Club). I got stack in the traffic jam and got there 30 minutes before they were closing. I was able to just post my target and take 8 shots. I took first 5 shots with factory ammo (Rem Core-Lokt 165gr) to prime the rifle bore (I have a bad habit of cleaning my rifle after every shooting session). The scope was zeroed at 200 yards and I had no time to set it for 100 yards. After factory ammo I took 3 shots of my reloads. At first I thought my reload was bad as I could not see any 6th hole in the target. But then I looked through a 45x spotting scope and realized that my first reload shot hit the same hole where one of my Remington shots hit. I took two more shots and it was a happy ending. I grouped the 3 relaod shots under 1 inch. I am not sure it the group was 0.9 or 0.7 inches since I am not sure which hole (from the two overlapping holes) was from my reload and which from the factory ammo. Here I posted pictures of the target and I also posted a picture of reload primer. It all came far better than I could ever dream of. Upon case inspection, I could not see any syptoms of overpressure or defective priming. A new balance arrived an hour ago (I try to avoid ordering stuff from Amazon if I can buy somewhere else, but with Amazon Prime I had a new balance delivered in few hours), so I can reload more cases. I got lucky that I busted my electronic balance after only 3 cartridges were loaded. Now I do not have to try lower end charges and can keep 49.5 gr charge and can focus on bullet seating. I set the 3 loads at 3.270 OAL. I think I can try to move bullet forward. I have few rounds of factory Federal Match-Grade 168gr Sierra BTHP cartridges and they have OAL of 3.305. Originally I planed for them to be my benchmark vs. reloads, but since I did not have much time this evening I did not want to waste them on clean bore. I have 5 rounds of them. Now I need to study how much to move bullets forward on my next set of reloads. I will go in 0.005 increments. Luckily, my Foster bullet seater is one with a micro-caliber and seems to be very accurate. I tested it on few dummy rounds (seated few bullets on empty unprimed cases).

 

[Dr Prepper]

This evening was the happiest day of my shooting ever. I finally made it to my range (Issaquah Sportsman's Club). I got stack in the traffic jam and got there 30 minutes before they were closing. I was able to just post my target and take 8 shots. I took first 5 shots with factory ammo (Rem Core-Lokt 165gr) to prime the rifle bore (I have a bad habit of cleaning my rifle after every shooting session). The scope was zeroed at 200 yards and I had no time to set it for 100 yards. After factory ammo I took 3 shots of my reloads. At first I thought my reload was bad as I could not see any 6th hole in the target. But then I looked through a 45x spotting scope and realized that my first reload shot hit the same hole where one of my Remington shots hit. I took two more shots and it was a happy ending. I grouped the 3 relaod shots under 1 inch. I am not sure it the group was 0.9 or 0.7 inches since I am not sure which hole (from the two overlapping holes) was from my reload and which from the factory ammo. Here I posted pictures of the target and I also posted a picture of reload primer. It all came far better than I could ever dream of. Upon case inspection, I could not see any syptoms of overpressure or defective priming. A new balance arrived an hour ago (I try to avoid ordering stuff from Amazon if I can buy somewhere else, but with Amazon Prime I had a new balance delivered in few hours), so I can reload more cases. I got lucky that I busted my electronic balance after only 3 cartridges were loaded. Now I do not have to try lower end charges and can keep 49.5 gr charge and can focus on bullet seating. I set the 3 loads at 3.270 OAL. I think I can try to move bullet forward. I have few rounds of factory Federal Match-Grade 168gr Sierra BTHP cartridges and they have OAL of 3.305. Originally I planed for them to be my benchmark vs. reloads, but since I did not have much time this evening I did not want to waste them on clean bore. I have 5 rounds of them. Now I need to study how much to move bullets forward on my next set of reloads. I will go in 0.005 increments. Luckily, my Foster bullet seater is one with a micro-caliber and seems to be very accurate. I tested it on few dummy rounds (seated few bullets on empty unprimed cases).

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looks good, glad everything went well. primers look great.
one point of note is you will get much more consistent measurements off of the ogive using the comparitor and NOT measuring off the tip of the bullet. the tips of bullets are fairly irregular. the ogive which the forester seater stem seats off of uses (or at least should use) the ogive to seat as well.

 

[ddjchemist]

looks good, glad everything went well. primers look great.
one point of note is you will get much more consistent measurements off of the ogive using the comparitor and NOT measuring off the tip of the bullet. the tips of bullets are fairly irregular. the ogive which the forester seater stem seats off of uses (or at least should use) the ogive to seat as well.

Thanks for the advice. I did notice that bullets can vary in length (about 0.008 inches) and all the difference is from the bullet tip. For the 3 reloads I picked up the exact length bullet, but for the rest of reloads I will just count on the Forster seater. Right now the seater is in the press and set from the 3 reloads. I will make tonight 8 x 6 cartridges using the exact same powder charge and bullets and will keep incrementally move up micro-adjustment (in steps of 0.005 inches). I will test these cartridges, but will save one from each 8 sets of 6 cartridges. Whichever seating wins, I will choose its saved cartridge my master cartridge and will never shoot it. Then I can measure its OGIVE and have it as my master OGIVE. Could you advice me a good gauge to use it on my caliper? As a novice to reloading, I am realizing that there are great tools, but also not that great products.

 

[Dr Prepper]

i would find a powder node first. and then play with bullet seating depth. that is the proper order of operations.
there actually is a correct order to do this process in just like order of operations for math. it DOES make difference.

 

[Dr Prepper]

I heard one or two people mention runout and concentricity gauges so thought id share this.
My cheapo home made setup. 1" ball bearings less than $10 a free scrap bottom die from a old job. And a cheap indicator and holder i found online. The indicator WAS cheap but its much better quality than you will buy most places. Its a legit swiss made TESA (be weary of chinese knock offs) i just used some baking soda and super glued it altogether.
Works very slick and im not stuck with something expensive with only one use. I can take the base off and use it for machining if needed.
Was the last tool i was missing.

If you buy one i HIGHLY recommend at least looking at the XXI (21st century) concentricity gauge. I have yet to see a better setup.

 

[tac]

So far, all my resized 30-06 cases are within SAAMI specs. I primed the cases last night (will post pictures) using RCBS hand priming tool. Primer seatings look all good to my eye, but I will post some images, so more experienced reloader can give me an input. The hand priming tool worked great and was quick and easy to use, and the primer seating looks very consistent.

I'm surprised to read that you are assuming that your Finnish-made Tikka rifle is also made to SAAMI specifications.

It is NOT.

It is made to CIP specifications which are legally-binding and documented law in the countries that abide by its standards, unlike SAAMI specifications, which are a set of recommended dimensions that have no standing in the firearms manufacturing laws that govern the manufacture of firearms and ammuntion in the CIP nations.

The USA is NOT a member of the CIP.

When your primers are correctly set they should be about 5 - 10 thou below the level of the rim around them - IOW, you should be able to see daylight if you look at the base with a steel ruler across it. BTW, it doesn't matter if the ruler is metric or imperial.

 

[tac]

View attachment 894142

Your primers all seem to be set at different depths.

 

[ddjchemist]

My primers are all set below and I compared them to factory ammo and they all look the same depth. If I put a ruler I can see a space

 

[pharmseller]

Now I need to study how much to move bullets forward on my next set of reloads. I will go in 0.005 increments. Luckily, my Foster bullet seater is one with a micro-caliber and seems to be very accurate. I tested it on few dummy rounds (seated few bullets on empty unprimed cases).

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Welcome to the club!

What is the muzzle velocity of your loads?

As far as depth goes, keep in mind you might find accuracy shorter as well as longer. At this point you don't know. That's why I start as long as the rifle will let me, then I seat progressively deeper. At some point the rifle will tell me what it likes.

Here are a couple of interesting reads:

Setting Up Your Loads For Optimum Accuracy

We will show you how to set-up your loads for optimum accuracy, even if you are using a long bullet jump from a magazine.

bergerbullets.com

Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle.

bergerbullets.com

The second link is the process I use, at 0.040" increments. In my experience this method works with a variety of bullets, not just Bergers. That's a multiple of 8 compared to 0.005". When you find the depth that prints significantly better than the rest, then you can fine-tune up or down in smaller increments. If you limit yourself to 0.005" increments you'll be pursuing the node for years.

My goal is five-shot groups of 0.5" or less at 100 yards, with velocity on the high end, and acceptable pressure signs. I don't consider primer appearance as a sign of pressure (unless I blow a primer, of course, which hasn't happened yet) but I will pay attention to ejector marks on the base.

Start long, move one direction, larger increments. That's in line with your practice of changing one variable at a time. And yes, I was referring to a concentricity gauge. I don't use one but I hear they're great.




P

 

[Dr Prepper]

Welcome to the club!

What is the muzzle velocity of your loads?

As far as depth goes, keep in mind you might find accuracy shorter as well as longer. At this point you don't know. That's why I start as long as the rifle will let me, then I seat progressively deeper. At some point the rifle will tell me what it likes.

Here are a couple of interesting reads:

Setting Up Your Loads For Optimum Accuracy

We will show you how to set-up your loads for optimum accuracy, even if you are using a long bullet jump from a magazine.

bergerbullets.com

Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle.

bergerbullets.com

The second link is the process I use, at 0.040" increments. In my experience this method works with a variety of bullets, not just Bergers. That's a multiple of 8 compared to 0.005". When you find the depth that prints significantly better than the rest, then you can fine-tune up or down in smaller increments. If you limit yourself to 0.005" increments you'll be pursuing the node for years.

My goal is five-shot groups of 0.5" or less at 100 yards, with velocity on the high end, and acceptable pressure signs. I don't consider primer appearance as a sign of pressure (unless I blow a primer, of course, which hasn't happened yet) but I will pay attention to ejector marks on the base.

Start long, move one direction, larger increments. That's in line with your practice of changing one variable at a time. And yes, I was referring to a concentricity gauge. I don't use one but I hear they're great.




P

Sorry but this is terrible advice, seating a bullet deeper without changing anything else will INCREASE pressure.
If you seat a bullet on average of 1/16" or .062" it CAN increase the pressure as much as 10K psi. (This isnt a logarithmic scale)
And .04" is a massive increments to use. The whole point is to find a node. Maybe several. Just like your powder node.

This is specifically why you actually spend the time to find out your true "jamb" seating depth, and then back it off a good way around MAX of .03" and then INCREASE (AND ONLY INCREASE THE SEATING LENGTH) around .003-.004" and shoot those in 3 shot groups.

Seating deeper AFTER finding your load is a excellent way to blow your face off. And .04" makes it fairly pointless to even try and find seating depth. Might as well just throw random seating depths at it and hope. Not scientific at all.

One you find your best seating node, then every 500 round or so you seat 3 .003" longer and see if those three group better than your standard load. If they do, that's your new seating depth because your throat has worn in by that much. And your actually keeping it consistent with the wear.

It also shouldn't take you much longer to load up those node tests every .003" than it would to do your regular powder load ladder tests.
Especially with the forster micrometer seater. Just turn the dial out every .003" easy as can be!

 

[ddjchemist]

Thanks you all so much for all your help. I reloaded 9 groups of 6 rounds each (In the picture below you can see tape on each cartridge, but of course I removed it when loaded cartridges into rifle). I kept a constant load of 49.5gr and changed bulled seating. Since I do not have a gauge to measure OGIVE (I am ordering one now), right now I can only measure OAL of the cartridges. Group 1 had OAL 3.270-3.275 and last group 9 had AOL 3.310-3.315. I shot 5 rounds from each group. I left one cartridge from each group to have a master cartridge that I can use to measure OGIVE when the gauge arrives. That way I can set bullet seating equal to the bullet seating of the master cartridge. I will buy another used press and dedicate that press jut for bullet seating. Right now I am using an old RCBS JR2 press that I got for $50, and after disassembling, cleaning and greasing it (of course I only greased joints that do not come in contact with cartridges), the press works great (these old presses are made better than new ones and will probably outlast me).

All 45 rounds worked great and an experienced reloader at the range looked shot cases and told me they all looked perfect and absolutely no symptoms of any overpressure. All the rounds perfectly recycled and the rifle was as smooth as you would expect from Tikka. The best grouping came out of Group 4. All groups were tight except 8 and 9. I am not sure if my rifle does not like short bullet jump, or the barrel was too hot and grouping was spreading (the range was closing at 6pm and I was rushing these last two groups and did not cool the barrel after groups 6 and 7 (I was cooling barrel between every 2 groups). I was shooting 100 yards off a bench with a send back front support. Here I posted a picture of reloaded rounds (just before I headed to the range) and pictures of the best group (Group 4). If I count all 5 shots, group 4 came at 0.8in, and if I count 4 best shots that group is 0.6in. I think I might be happy with group 4 and just use that reloading scheme. Keep in mind that the trigger on my Tikka is factory one with factory spring. I just ordered MCARBO spring for it, so I am expecting that to slightly improved accuracy (every other rifle I have incproved accuracy after I installed MCARBO spring).

 

[ddjchemist]

I am trying to order an OGIVE gauge. Are they universal for 0.308 calibers or do you need to get separate ones for 30-06 and 300 WM? Any advise what models are good. I need one to fit the caliper shown in the pictures.