What Makes for a Really Good Indoor Gun Club?

[TexasBanker]

I am a former banker who specializes in assisting Texas businesses obtain needed financing. At the moment I am working with a group who want to build a "guntry club" in South Texas (similar to friscogunclub.com) It would help me to learn from two groups: club/range members and club/range owner-operators.
Here are my questions for shooters:
1. What are 3 or 4 things you really like about the range where you shoot?
2. What are 3 or 4 things you really dislike about the range where you shoot?
3. If you could change anything about the design or amenities, what would they be?
4. Anything else I should know about?

Here are my questions for owner-operators. (If you'd prefer to respond privately: [email protected])
1. How long did it take you to reach full membership?
2. In terms of facility design, what would you change if you were to rebuild?
3. How long did it take you to reach break-even?
Finally, owner-operators, I have several more detailed questions. If you're willing, I'd like to call you. (All answers confidential). Please email me at [email protected], if you're willing to talk to me.

Thank you in advance for all who help. I appreciate it.
---Fred

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[Camelfilter]

Safety & various disciplines.

 

[TexasBanker]

Safety & various disciplines.

Thank you.

 

[Argonaut]

A commonly under appreciated item with indoor ranges is ventelation. Guns create a lot of dust and smoke. When ranges are heavily used (the goal of a range) constant ventelation is imperative as well as general maintenance. A cousin of mine was a pool contractor that got into building underground ranges for individuals in Southern California. They were concrete culvert buried in the back yard with access from the basement. Most were 48" in diameter allowing someone to crawl down to the impact zone to clean and do repairs to the backstop. Very cool stuff. He actually had a client pass out while in the culvert from the lack of ventelation. Someone here said that is what put down the Barron's den shop and range near Eugene.

 

[Mikej]

As a member of such range:

Decent air filtration.
Able to use my own ammo.
Rates affordable for the regular working guy.

 

[TexasBanker]

A commonly under appreciated item with indoor ranges is ventelation. Guns create a lot of dust and smoke. When ranges are heavily used (the goal of a range) constant ventelation is imperative as well as general maintenance. A cousin of mine was a pool contractor that got into building underground ranges for individuals in Southern California. They were concrete culvert buried in the back yard with access from the basement. Most were 48" in diameter allowing someone to crawl down to the impact zone to clean and do repairs to the backstop. Very cool stuff. He actually had a client pass out while in the culvert from the lack of ventelation. Someone here said that is what put down the Barron's den shop and range near Eugene.

ARGONAUT: Thanks. I have read a lot about this issue. If you regularly shoot at an indoor range, what are your 3 likes/dislikes? ---Fred

 

[TexasBanker]

As a member of such range:

Decent air filtration.
Able to use my own ammo.
Rates affordable for the regular working guy.

MIKEJ, Thanks!!! How far are you willing to drive to get to a range you really like? Think time, not miles...

 

[Argonaut]

ARGONAUT: Thanks. I have read a lot about this issue. If you regularly shoot at an indoor range, what are your 3 likes/dislikes? ---Fred

The convenience of not having to walk down to targets.....(a trolly target system), the ability to be comfortable in any weather, the knowledge you are shooting in a safe legal environment.

 

[TexasBanker]

The convenience of not having to walk down to targets.....(a trolly target system), the ability to be comfortable in any weather, the knowledge you are shooting in a safe legal environment.

ARGONAUT, thanks again. One more: how far (think time, not miles) are you willing to drive to get to a range you really like?

 

[Mikej]

MIKEJ, Thanks!!! How far are you willing to drive to get to a range you really like? Think time, not miles...

I'm older, and cheap, and really REALLY hate the traffic in the city, (Most likely where you'd need to build the "Dream" range to get enough business). The small indoor range I belong to now takes 20 minutes. Maybe 35-40 minutes? As long as that 35 minutes isn't a horribly traffic plugged drive of five miles.

 

[TexasBanker]

I'm older, and cheap, and really REALLY hate the traffic in the city, (Most likely where you'd need to build the "Dream" range to get enough business). The small indoor range I belong to now takes 20 minutes. Maybe 35-40 minutes? As long as that 35 minutes isn't a horribly traffic plugged drive of five miles.

MIKEJ, thanks. This is very helpful. I have read elsewhere that the distance limit is about 18 miles. In the Houston area, that could easily be a 1 hour trip. So, I'm trying to figure out the market area for this range.

 

[Argonaut]

ARGONAUT, thanks again. One more: how far (think time, not miles) are you willing to drive to get to a range you really like?

. I am not a good person to ask about that. My range is 4' out of my back door off my deck. We travel 20 miles to the grocery store. I learned in my years in SoCal that it isn't distance, it is time.

 

[TexasBanker]

. I am not a good person to ask about that. My range is 4' out of my back door off my deck. We travel 20 miles to the grocery store. I learned in my years in SoCal that it isn't distance, it is time.

ARGONAUT: You are especially fortunate!!! I get the SoCal reference.... Thanks again.

 

[Dungannon]

Likes:
- attentive range officer to ensure safety behavior is observed
- ventilation
- firearms to rent, for those wanting to try out before buying
- a large parking lot that can accommodate trucks
- if classes are conducted, then the ability to adjust lighting

I'm assuming no one would ever step in front of the firing line on an indoor range, and targets would only be sent out & retrieved via a cable. In the distant future I'd likely appreciate shooting stations for wheelchair access.

Dislikes:
- overbearing, bloviating staff
- requirement to shoot only ammunition purchased at club
- gangbangers and tweekers

Errata:
- It's Texas, so it's got to be big.
- There are limits to what is feasible with an indoor range, particularly in an urban area. If it is a club, then a choice scenario is an urban indoor range, with member access to a rural everything-goes outdoor range [long distance, action shooting, competitions, trap/skeet/clays, etc.]. Unlike the Pacific Northwest [with millions of public land acres within driving distance of downtown] the prospect of access to an exclusive outdoor range with facilities to accommodate every need could well be the clincher for your high-roller members.
- 20 minute drive tops. But then I live 40 minutes from a State Forest with outdoor shooting spots, and 60 minutes from a National Forest.
-

 

[bgdawgrr]

What I really think sets great ranges from simply a place to shoot. Not necessarily in order.
* Good lighting/controllable in your lane. Found it important after shooting a range with terrible lights. Being able to dim or turn off is the bees knees for practice situations.
* Being able to shoot variety of guns/ammo, including some rifle rounds (no steel core, AP etc. obviously) and pattern shotguns.
* Bulletproof panels between lanes. Makes it more intimate to shoot and great safety.
*Programable target hangers. Being able to set it to exactly 7 yards or 50 feet is too cool. Having additional features like a timer to present target then turn, or slowly move out and back etc really takes training up a notch.
*Special action bays to allow practice drawing from holster or other movement drills.
*Membership option. Love to pay one price for unlimited or x use per month. Sometimes I just want to stop by and live fire to test a modification. Don't want to spend $10-15 to shoot a box of ammo.
*Allow outside ammo. No problem if you want to check it all.
*Have some snacks. Not on the range, but shooting makes one thirsty.
And the real winner:
*Sell stuff at reasonable prices that I really would pay.
Sorry, selling the same digital muffs for 2x Cabela's (or any other store) is ridiculous and makes me pass. It doesn't have to be online prices, but if your selling target 9mm for .30 a round when retail is <.20 all day, I'm gonna be sure to stop at the store before coming to your place. I don't balk at profits, but don't gouge me either.

 

[TexasBanker]

What I really think sets great ranges from simply a place to shoot. Not necessarily in order.
* Good lighting/controllable in your lane. Found it important after shooting a range with terrible lights. Being able to dim or turn off is the bees knees for practice situations.
* Being able to shoot variety of guns/ammo, including some rifle rounds (no steel core, AP etc. obviously) and pattern shotguns.
* Bulletproof panels between lanes. Makes it more intimate to shoot and great safety.
*Programable target hangers. Being able to set it to exactly 7 yards or 50 feet is too cool. Having additional features like a timer to present target then turn, or slowly move out and back etc really takes training up a notch.
*Special action bays to allow practice drawing from holster or other movement drills.
*Membership option. Love to pay one price for unlimited or x use per month. Sometimes I just want to stop by and live fire to test a modification. Don't want to spend $10-15 to shoot a box of ammo.
*Allow outside ammo. No problem if you want to check it all.
*Have some snacks. Not on the range, but shooting makes one thirsty.
And the real winner:
*Sell stuff at reasonable prices that I really would pay.
Sorry, selling the same digital muffs for 2x Cabela's (or any other store) is ridiculous and makes me pass. It doesn't have to be online prices, but if your selling target 9mm for .30 a round when retail is <.20 all day, I'm gonna be sure to stop at the store before coming to your place. I don't balk at profits, but don't gouge me either.

BGDAWGRR: Thanks for all this good info. As to the range you customarily use, what are 3 things you like/dislike about it?? Also, in terms of time, not distance, how far are you willing to drive to a range you enjoy??

 

[bgdawgrr]

Current range is new so has some great features.
Likes:
1. Great lighting and ventilation.
2. Lanes. Automatic carriages are very nice as well as the storage set up in the range for your bags and targets. Clean lanes and they ask if you want to keep your brass.
3. Can shoot rifles up to 7.62x39.
Dislikes:
1. No membership/monthly option. Kind of expensive for second shooter, same lane.
2. When renting guns, only one at a time. That really ok, but when I rent, it's to compare. Maybe a new shooter picking a new weapon, or me wanting to compare say a Shield vs XDS. Being able to have two in the lane would be very helpful vs constantly going back and forth.
3. First time sign in is a little too tedious. Lawyers caused this, but I think I filled and signed 5-6 releases, some 3 pages, before we could shoot. I have no problem with safety video etc, but at one point, I was like damn, really?

I would not mind driving 30 min to a good range. 45 min for a great range on a regular basis.

 

[TexasBanker]

Current range is new so has some great features.
Likes:
1. Great lighting and ventilation.
2. Lanes. Automatic carriages are very nice as well as the storage set up in the range for your bags and targets. Clean lanes and they ask if you want to keep your brass.
3. Can shoot rifles up to 7.62x39.
Dislikes:
1. No membership/monthly option. Kind of expensive for second shooter, same lane.
2. When renting guns, only one at a time. That really ok, but when I rent, it's to compare. Maybe a new shooter picking a new weapon, or me wanting to compare say a Shield vs XDS. Being able to have two in the lane would be very helpful vs constantly going back and forth.
3. First time sign in is a little too tedious. Lawyers caused this, but I think I filled and signed 5-6 releases, some 3 pages, before we could shoot. I have no problem with safety video etc, but at one point, I was like damn, really?

I would not mind driving 30 min to a good range. 45 min for a great range on a regular basis.

BGDAWGRR: Thank you for this very helpful input. I appreciate your taking the time to do this. As for all first time sign in hassles, I've not yet been through that, but, as a long-time banker, I'll just say that if the lawyers and regulators can make your life more difficult, tedious, and frustrating, then THEY have had a good day!!! Thanks again! ---Fred

 

[CHLChris]

Things I dislike:
1) Slow-fire required. Shooters should be able to double- and triple-tap. In fact, as long as all other safety rules are being followed, shooters should be able to shoot as fast as they want, including mag-dumps.
2) Must buy ammo from range. I would rather pay more for a range fee if I am able to bring my own ammo, including factory ammo, defense hollow points, and even my own reloads.
3) No holster draws. I can imagine having some sort of requirements around somehow proving a level of safety before being allow to draw from a holster, but only shooting from a table "draw" really limits training.

Things I like:
1) Separated lanes. Even though I feel rather safe at a gun range, I really feel better with ballistic barriers between shooting locations. If a fellow shooter, while looking at a malf, turns their muzzle sideways, I'd like to be protected.
2) Powered target carriers. I like being able to flip a switch and make the paper targets fly backward.
3) Able to shoot at any distance. One needs to be allowed to shoot at any distance, from 2 yards to 25, and anything in between. We have ranges here that only allow single distances...bummer.

 

[Mikej]

Have you checked this out? TNT Guns & Range | Indoor Shooting Range Murray, Utah

I grew up just to the South of Murray. From what I read on their website this place is the kind of place that will serve everyone, not just the wealthier among us. There is another indoor range, "Get Some, Guns 'n Ammo" to the south of TNT that is much smaller that I was able to shoot at and I though it was great. Both of these ranges are in the middle of large population areas.