What is the dollar amount you would sell your constitutional rights for?

[nammac]

I already moved once over this BS. Can't run forever.

That's the other point, this liberal/leftist/progressive agenda to disarm law abiding citizens, is a cancer that must be eradicated, at all costs.

We must stop it and stop running from it.

File your objection to the title of IP43, send it to the Secretary of State. Get on board with this initiative, and fight against it. We, the entire gun owning community in Oregon must unite on this issue. Anything less and we will surely become subjects to the state...

 

[Member 34319]

We are all different to a point I guess. How we see what we are giving up is probably the biggest difference. Some just see it as giving up the one kind of gun and then you can move on with your life and they will leave you alone. There ain't a chance in hades that the gun grabbers will ever leave you alone especially once they take one style of gun from you, the militia rifle that protects the constitution.

You love your wife and kid but what future do you have when people take your right to self protection? Who would defend your kids if you die in a car accident? Maslow says that the most important part of building a life you want is security, when people take your ability to be secure in your home and every place you walk in the world then you have lost your freedom.

As an old man I realize how important a firearm has been in my life to keep my family secure and give myself the ability to move through life safely. When you give that up the republic is done and others will run your life and your families lives and those kids no longer have a choice because fear will rule their lives.

If Oregonians decide I cant' have the best tools for my protection they have taken from me my constitutional right. I will just move out of Oregon, I won't kill folks when I can live in another state that still believes in freedom. I have the money to move but a lot of folks don't and their neighbors are stealing hard earned property from them by voting for 43. I really dont' want to live around people so stupid to vote their rights away so there is really only one choice. I won't sell my rights away to the democrats', I can live around better people.

I'm all for keeping firearms for the safety of my life and my families if a threat shows itself.

I just don't like the topic of having to chose.

It's almost a trick question.

Ha, your not a true gun owner if your willing to give them up if it meant your lives were at stake...

 

[Geardo]

I'm all for keeping firearms for the safety of my life and my families if a threat shows itself.

I just don't like the topic of having to chose.

It's almost a trick question.

Ha, your not a true gun owner if your willing to give them up if it meant your lives were at stake...

We all have our own priorities. We should be able to have respectful discussions, even if we disagree, and point out the terrible choices on both sides of the decision, so we all make an informed and committed choice when the time comes.

 

[DuneHopper]

No war was ever won by retreating and surrendering.

There are 50 states, one can keep moving ( being forced out) or finally draw a line in the sand and stand as they claim they always will. I am a California implant born and raised and watched that beautiful state turn to garbage and a left liberal cess pool. People try and give me crap for being from California, and moving here. To them I say GFYS, I am a American citizen and will live where I want. I also fought for rights in California as long as I could, you don't move from a child hood place without realizing you wont ever be back. Oregon is my home and I am more Oregonian that many here, Ive opened businesses here, helped clean the environment and worked even opposed by Republicans to save our 2nd Amendment rights. I wont move again, I look back at California and wonder how many like me gave up and left and let them have that state. I loved it there I lived where I could go anywhere and do anything within two hours. To a place called Oregon where everyone claims they are patriots but move when it gets tough. I have watched the last 20+ years here and seen the amount of people that don't vote is staggering. Around here all you have to do is fill it out and mail it and lazy arse people can't even do that and then beotch about how the laws pass and people get elected.

Measure 43 is not a new idea the Dems have had this in their sights a while, and waited until we were at our weakest to strike.
Hate me for being a California implant if you choose, but don't cut and run and tell me you are an Oregonian or a patriot.

No amount is enough to sell my dignity, or my love of Country and by that I mean why I love this country is because
I am free. That is not for sale at any price.

 

[Colts4me]

I already moved once over this BS. Can't run forever.

Well I am getting old so when I run out of being able to move then I am cornered, that's not a good thing for anyone involved

 

[Colts4me]

I'm all for keeping firearms for the safety of my life and my families if a threat shows itself.

I just don't like the topic of having to chose.

It's almost a trick question.

Ha, your not a true gun owner if your willing to give them up if it meant your lives were at stake...

I wrote the question so you have a chance to see the future and think today on what that future would bring. It empowers you in your choices because you can talk them over with people and make the best choice for you and your family. No sense being herded like sheep to except your fate, look around you and pick the best path.

 

[alv7722]

I have a beautiful wife and child that would kill me first before I started shooting at the men at the door looking for my firearms.

I understand those who aren't like me and are stating that they will go out guns ablaze.

I respect your thoughts and at one time thought the same.

In Seattle as well as California, confiscation has begun. So far no one has gone out guns ablaze that I've seen or read on TV.

I feel it will happen soon or later.

I see it happening more regularly the closer we get to a government that is actually taking guns away for less and less of a reason.

You need to fight in every way you can. Your "beautiful child" or his/her child may very well need the Constitutionally protected rights in the future!! I, too, have mixed feelings about shooting it out with authorities, and really don't know what I would do. That is why it is important to do all we can with the soap box, and the ballot box. I should not have to face that decision!! Unfortunately, the Constitution and B of R are no longer protections we can count on........

 

[nammac]

Well I am getting old so when I run out of being able to move then I am cornered, that's not a good thing for anyone involved

Hey... That's when the shootin' commences!!!!

 

[Geardo]

No war was ever won by retreating and surrendering.

There are 50 states, one can keep moving ( being forced out) or finally draw a line in the sand and stand as they claim they always will. I am a California implant born and raised and watched that beautiful state turn to garbage and a left liberal cess pool. People try and give me crap for being from California, and moving here. To them I say GFYS, I am a American citizen and will live where I want. I also fought for rights in California as long as I could, you don't move from a child hood place without realizing you wont ever be back. Oregon is my home and I am more Oregonian that many here, Ive opened businesses here, helped clean the environment and worked even opposed by Republicans to save our 2nd Amendment rights. I wont move again, I look back at California and wonder how many like me gave up and left and let them have that state. I loved it there I lived where I could go anywhere and do anything within two hours. To a place called Oregon where everyone claims they are patriots but move when it gets tough. I have watched the last 20+ years here and seen the amount of people that don't vote is staggering. Around here all you have to do is fill it out and mail it and lazy arse people can't even do that and then beotch about how the laws pass and people get elected.

Measure 43 is not a new idea the Dems have had this in their sights a while, and waited until we were at our weakest to strike.
Hate me for being a California implant if you choose, but don't cut and run and tell me you are an Oregonian or a patriot.

No amount is enough to sell my dignity, or my love of Country and by that I mean why I love this country is because
I am free. That is not for sale at any price.

Wish I could like this post about 10 times!

 

[Geardo]

I will answer by quoting Patrick Henry March, 1775
MR. PRESIDENT: No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do, opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely, and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to
arrive at truth, and fulfil the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offence, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the majesty of heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided; and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years, to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves, and the House? Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with these war-like preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled, that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask, gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done, to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne. In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free² if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending²if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained, we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of Hosts is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations; and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable²and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace²but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

I have re-read this about 5x since you posted it. What happened to us!? How far have we fallen.

 

[MountainBear]

Not going to read through five pages. Suffice to say there is a sign on my rights that reads:

NOT FOR SALE.

 

[Ura-Ki]

What choices do a people about to be stripped of a VERY serious right have? That is the biggy, and each of us has to look deep inside our soul to find that answer! What ever th at answer is, you must stand up and act on it. I'm not condoning killing, but a man can only give up so much of his own self worth, and when he is forced to face the inevitable if this IP43 goes through, I hope to see some folks finally stand up for what we truly believe in! If that means killing traitors, then so be it, just make sure you also seal out those in power who pushed all this on us, because they are the true enemy to Life, Liberty, and the Prsuit of Happiness, and those very things are insured by a gun!
Don't bury your head in the sand, don' give up and move out, and don't hand over what is rightfully yours! This is our freedom, fight for it, die for it if needed, just don't let them take from us that which we hold most dear, freedom! And if you do move, your going to have to keep moving, just because a place is safe today dosnt mean it's safe tomorrow!
All you old pharz, yea you, pull your thumbs out, hitch up yoyr depends, pick up a rifle and draw a line in the sand, you had a good run, but the rest of us still need help here, we want to be old phartz too some day!


Off soap box!

 

[Squidly]

I will answer by quoting Patrick Henry March, 1775
MR. PRESIDENT: No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do, opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely, and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to
arrive at truth, and fulfil the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offence, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the majesty of heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided; and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years, to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves, and the House? Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with these war-like preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled, that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask, gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done, to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne. In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free² if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending²if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained, we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of Hosts is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations; and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable²and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace²but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

I read this through several times as well.
Patrick Henry was a man with balls and brains.

There are no born heroes or winners...It takes a hammer, a chisel, a vision and a will to suffer the blows and be carved into one.

Via Hrithik Roshan

 

[Colts4me]

Wish I could like this post about 10 times!

Better read it a few more times.

 

[james2562]

I think we should look deeper into this issue than we seem to be looking. A few of us have touched on the issue but the issue has not been hammered home. The question is: where did an absurd idea like this come from? I suspect it came from a lack of experience and education.

Our educational system must be failing. The 2nd amendment is part of the bill of rights. It was not an add on to the constitution 50-years later. It was so important the signatories to the constitution enacted it immediately. Do our children, let alone the current bunch of elected officials, realize why we have the right to bear arms?

1. To protect against criminals

2. To protect against tyranny

3. To feed families

If you don't think you need a gun for protection against criminals I would suggest you go live in a bad neighborhood in Detroit. Your life experience might change your opinion. We do not all live in nice secure neighborhoods. Further riots still happen: Watts 1965 & LA 1992.

If you think this government/society is sufficiently advanced as to rule out the possibility of becoming tyrannical you are ignoring history. When a Dem is in the house the right has plenty of examples. When a Rep is in the house the left has plenty of examples. How many folks are comparing immigration issues to tyranny today? The best example of a tyrannical American government has already been mentioned. The internment camps were established in 1942. Long after the constitution and there are still internees of the camps still alive.

The day may, or may not, come when we must live off the land again. Folks did in 1776. If that day comes I would like to be able to shoot game to feed myself and my family. And, call me overprepared but I would rather go hunting with a 30 round AR/AK mag than with a BAR.

If we neglect to demand that young Americans understand the basis of the 2nd amendment they may grow up to be Democratic politicians proposing misguided legislation.

 

[aksu747]

Jesus told his disciples in Luke 22:36 to sell their cloaks and buy swords.
This is reason enough for me to keep my guns which I view as the modern equivalent of the sword.

 

[Pandaz3]

Fifteen Billion? There has to be multi million qualifying guns.

 

[Zmortis]

This could be better phrased, "How much would it take to buy your freedom?"

Your right to keep and bear arms is nothing less than your right to keep your freedom.

 

[Inquisitor]

The $15 Billion is just the beginning! When "gun crime" doesn't go down then it will be the fault of pump shotguns, then semiauto handguns, then revolvers, then any rifle over 22LR, then any shotgun, then . . .!

 

[Boboclown]

Jesus told his disciples in Luke 22:36 to sell their cloaks and buy swords.
This is reason enough for me to keep my guns which I view as the modern equivalent of the sword.

That verse refers to prophecy in Isaiah 53:12.