What can we learn from the Bundy ranch situation?

[fd15k]

fd15k changed one very important word in that cited paragraph. He changed "shall" to "may". In the context of a federal statute, "shall" is a REQUIREMENT. "May" is an option.

Oh noes, you uncovered yet another conspiracy! How about that opening "When the Secretary determines that assistance is necessary" ? Does it have any bearing on whether they "may", "can", "shall" ?

The BLM is REQUIRED to contract with local officials when assistance is needed to enforce federal law. And by law, no local official has ANY law enforcement powers without the consent of the county sheriff. The county sheriff is the highest constitutional law enforcement authority in any county. The county sheriff can deputize federal officials to enforce state law within his county, and he may REVOKE that authority. It has been done in CA and in OR.

Basically your assertion is BLM rangers have no authority to enforce any laws anywhere, until they receive consent of the Sheriff ?

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013...ith-feds-likely-over-residents-carrying-guns/

The article mentions that the US Forest Service officers will still be enforcing federal laws, but that is contrary to what 43 USC 1733 requires. It requires that the US Forest Service contract with the sheriff to enforce those laws.

In a letter to the US Forest Service, Sheriff Palmer questioned the USFS's authority to engage in law enforcement within Grant county, declaring:"your jurisdiction as I see it is limited to the Federal Building in John Day" [the county seat]; and that the presence of USFS "Law Enforcement" violates Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution.

"Within the confines of Grant County, Oregon, the duties and responsibility of law enforcement will rest with the County Sheriff and his designees," he wrote.

Palmer's letter was apparently prompted by Forest Service attempts to pressure him into signing a "co-operative policing agreement" that would allow the agency to engage in law enforcement activities inside the lines of Grant County. [If the federal officers already had such authority why would they be pressuring the sheriff for such an agreement?]

Palmer said that in the near future, he'll be raising other issues about USFS's activities in Grant County, including its recent treatment of the local citizenry, illegal road closures, grazing, logging and other concerns that he and his community have. He also expressed concern about the way Forest Service LEOs had treated "treated citizens of this county in Oct. and Nov., 2010," but deferred giving details until a later time.

http://www.newswithviews.com/NWV-News/news260.htm

Another interesting article:

http://www.arizonadailyindependent....fficers-cracking-down-on-cracked-windshields/

Thanks for the links and some background information. If you also can give me a simple answer to whether BLM rangers are authorized to enforce bubblegum without Sheriff's consent, that would be a great baseline.

 

[fd15k]

No, it's not.

You mean it doesn't talk about it, or you are not satisfied with the provided information ?

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Oh noes, you uncovered yet another conspiracy! How about that opening "When the Secretary determines that assistance is necessary" ? Does it have any bearing on whether they "may", "can", "shall" ?



Basically your assertion is BLM rangers have no authority to enforce any laws anywhere, until they receive consent of the Sheriff ?



Thanks for the links and some background information. If you also can give me a simple answer to whether BLM rangers are authorized to enforce bubblegum without Sheriff's consent, that would be a great baseline.

BLM rangers certainly have no authority to enforce state laws without being deputized by the county sheriff through an agreement such as they were trying to coerce the Wallowa County sheriff into signing. It's debatable whether the BLM has the power to employ law enforcement officers to enforce federal law, or whether the statute requires them to go through the local sheriff.

 

[fd15k]

BLM rangers certainly have no authority to enforce state laws without being deputized by the county sheriff through an agreement such as they were trying to coerce the Wallowa County sheriff into signing. It's debatable whether the BLM has the power to employ law enforcement officers to enforce federal law, or whether the statute requires them to go through the local sheriff.

I agree with you that federal LEOs can not enforce local laws unless cross-sworn, or deputized like you said. Last part is rather interesting. Here is some more information for you :

(2) The Secretary may authorize Federal personnel or appropriate local officials to carry out his law enforcement responsibilities with respect to the public lands and their resources. Such designated personnel shall receive the training and have the responsibilities and authority provided for in paragraph (1) of this subsection.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

I don't worry about "converting" the stalwart statist supporters on these boards. My goals are aimed at the "lurkers" and casual readers who observe these types of threads.

Conversion/ deprogramming is near impossible after the thorough brainwashing that our public Schools and Colleges have inflicted.

Add a constant barrage of clever one sided satire and opinion shows disguised as news to solidify what they've been taught and belittle anyone who questions. Get the music and entertainment industry on board with the propaganda machine as well for good measure. They're cool and hip and sexy, they must be right, right!

What you end up with I'm afraid, is a closed mind that, not unlike a cult member, cannot be opened easily.

What do I know about it though, I'm just an old guy set in his ways that's been brainwashed by big oil, the military industrial complex, the G.O.P., my years in the Army, the N.R.A. Fox News, A.M. radio, religion the Koch.......................

You lurkers and casual readers out there. Just remember you should hear ALL sides before you form an opinion, spread that opinion around or even Vote!

Sounds easy enough but in today's America you really have to put in an effort. Good morning America, the Daily Show (yeah I think he's funny too), whatever Kim Kardasian thinks or that blog you think is pretty neat isn't All sides most likely.

The stuff they have been spoon feeding us all these years from Gun control to Global warming, ask yourself , are their motives sincere and why does it taste so bad???

 

[Stomper]

And WHY is there so damned much THICK ice at the North Pole that is now threatening the polar bears?

 

[darrenlobo]

Wow, all these replies on this thread I started & not a single notification in my inbox. Sorry I didn't comment.

 

[Riot]

Basically your assertion is BLM rangers have no authority to enforce any laws anywhere, until they receive consent of the Sheriff ?

Basically your assertation is that any agency (from the Post Office on up) can arm themselves to the teeth and enforce their "law" as they see fit.

No sufficient postage! Turn around, you're under arrest!

Where do you draw the line when force can be used by an agency to "enforce the law"?

Your license plate is expired- so you deserve being thrown on the ground and having your car impounded and auctioned off to pay for your fees? After all, driving on public roads costs money and the Department of License needs it...right?

If you don't condone the above...then why would you condone BLM using force to confiscate cattle to auction them off to pay for grazing fees?

Quite an interesting set of morals you have, fk15k.

 

[Riot]

For anyone skipping to this page, let me summarize the discussion:

fd15k believes that your property becomes property of the government if you owe them enough, and they can use force to take it from you.

*add sugar for taste*

 

[Stomper]

Mmmmmm.... Sugar coated buffalo chips.

 

[JRuby]

For anyone skipping to this page, let me summarize the discussion:

fd15k believes that your property becomes property of the government if you owe them enough, and they can use force to take it from you.

*add sugar for taste*

Why don't you just quit paying taxes and see what happens when they audit you a few years down the road, if you don't have the money for the fines - I think you will have a different perspective at that point - just ask Willy Nelson.

 

[Stomper]

Willie was too stoned to give a rip at the time.

 

[fd15k]

For anyone skipping to this page, let me summarize the discussion:

fd15k believes that your property becomes property of the government if you owe them enough, and they can use force to take it from you.

*add sugar for taste*

I also eat cute puppies for breakfast.

 

[Stomper]

You a mustard guy, or ketchup and relish fan?

 

[fd15k]

You a mustard guy, or ketchup and relish fan?

Mustard. I like horseradish with my puppies too.

 

[Stomper]

Myself, I reserve horseradish for when dining on kittens.

 

[redmud]

Why don't you just quit paying taxes and see what happens when they audit you a few years down the road, if you don't have the money for the fines - I think you will have a different perspective at that point - just ask Willy Nelson.

Why don't you my friend, get out your cell phone the next time you see someone getting arrested and start recording. They will most likely tell you to stop and and move along. Who knows you might even get arrested if you don't do it quick enough.
Your rights are being slowly diminished. Some people see it while others do not or just don't know or care whats happening.

 

[JRuby]

You know I just might except most of people I associate with are good honest law abiding citizens and the opportunity has not happened yet.

 

[Gator Monroe]

Too many folks who think 2A IS AS Important as Choice or Social Justice or immigration rights or the Fairness Doctrine or Separation of Church & State ...

 

[redmud]

Doesn't Have to be someone you know just anyone. Your reply shows where you land in the don't realize know or care catagory.