What can we learn from the Bundy ranch situation?

[Caveman Jim]

e="Gator Monroe, post: 1102354, member: 13660"]Too many folks who think 2A IS AS Important as Choice or Social Justice or immigration rights or the Fairness Doctrine or Separation of Church & State ...[/quote]

Whats the punchline there Gator?
I believe if we don't have the 2A nothing else will matter, we will not have any freedoms!!! And I for one will not let that happen!!!!!!

 

[Gator Monroe]

The Punchline is FAR to many posters at Firearm Forum Boards think the Republicans and Democrats are exactly the same ON ALL ISSUES yet they are dead wrong ( Democrats are NOT the same as the GOP on 2A thus these folks who will never vote GOP again are enablers of the Democrat Anti 2A Zeitgeist we are experiencing today...

 

[ZigZagZeke]

This is a great article:

http://www.naturalnews.com/044728_f..._engagement_new_media.html#comment-1342444137

Rule #5) You will only have the cooperation of the People by their choice, not by coercion
The final rule in all this is something most feds will never quite understand. In most cases, federal agents receive cooperation from citizens by choice, not by force. For example, I have voluntarily provided information to the U.S. Department of Justice on criminal scams taking place in the natural products industry. I do this by choice, not by force, because it is the right thing to do and because it serves the public interest.

When federal agents make requests upon American citizens, there is a moment in which those requests are parsed for congruency with a person's perceived understanding of both the law and moral justice. If a federal agent's request is in alignment with law and moral justice, it will likely be voluntarily followed. For example, I (lawfully) carry a concealed firearm every time I visit the Austin airport. If a crazy person goes nuts with a machete at the airport, and I find myself side by side with an armed federal agent, have no doubt I will voluntarily cooperate with federal law enforcement officers in a joint armed effort to halt the violence of the armed assailant and thereby protect innocent people. (And being Austin, Texas, the machete-wielder will likely find himself riddled with bullets because hundreds of honorable, armed citizens carry concealed weapons at the Austin airport every single day.)

On the other hand, if a federal agent approaches me and orders me to rob a bank for him, I will tell him no. Why? Surely the agent can claim he is "giving me a lawful order" and I therefore must obey under law, correct? Yet when that "lawful order" stands at odds with what I know to be morally right, I will choose not to obey that order, regardless of what excuse the agent invokes.

This is precisely what happened at Bundy Ranch. BLM showed up with "lawful orders" backed up by two different (federal) courts. But the People did not perceive those order as being morally justified. Therefore, they chose not to recognize those orders as being lawful. As was the case at Bundy Ranch, Americans can and do think for themselves in such scenarios, and at any moment, they may decide that YOUR actions as a federal agent are grossly unlawful, immoral or unconstitutional. If enough people arrive at the same conclusion, you will sooner or later find yourself surrounded and possibly arrested by the People at gunpoint.

This concept does not compute with many federal agents because they were not taught the real roots of power in a free society. They are taught that a law written on a piece of paper is an absolute, irrefutable power which can never be questioned by lowly "civilians." In reality, a law is nothing more than mutual consent of the governed. That consent, it turns out, can be invoked at any time if those who apply the law do so in a way that is egregious or unreasonable. All government power comes from the People, after all, and can therefore be revoked by the People if government becomes abusive or overreaching in its exercising of that power.

Laws mean nothing, after all, if they are not based on a sense of justice which can be recognized by the Common Man (or woman). The U.S. government, for example, once had laws on the books which said that blacks were not fully recognized as people. Such laws fly in the face of spiritual truth, and had I been an independent media reporter in the 1820's, I would have been aggressively arguing for equal rights among all people, regardless of their skin color (and I would have been aggressively attacked by the establishment for defending such a "crazy" idea, of course).

Those are the new rules of engagement. Please send this article to your favorite fed. The more of them who read this and understand it, the greater chance we all have for lasting peace and avoidance of bloodshed caused by an arrogant, out-of-control federal government that has lost its way.

 

[Stomper]

A-FREAKIN'-MEN, Zig!!

 

[SmawGunner]

What are we going to learn? Were going to learn what defending the constitution from a overreaching government is going to cost the protesters as the FBI starts rounding them up now. Shouldn't the FBI be investigating why a militarized BLM was sent in by Senator Harry Reid to invade someones property and trample their rights so he could sell out the nations public land to the communist chinese for a billion dollar solar plant? This government has gone way too far on this one.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-showdown-clark-county-sheriff-officials-say/

 

[mosinguy1]

No 2nd = no rights at all!!!!!!!!

 

[Caveman Jim]

Agreed Gator, had to ask to be sure cause I got sometimers. ...

 

[Sabertooth]

Where to start.
Mid 60's Honda trail 50 showed up. Some one saw one in a wilderness area, All motorized stuff banned from wilderness areas. Later all cooking fires banned in wilderness areas.
70's, Sage Brush rebellion. Missed it, was busy with my gold dredge.
70's, BLM/Forest Service went on a surch and destroy misson on public lands. Legal mining claims bull dozed and burned. Also leveled Patend mining claims (these are Private Property). Oops, sorry about that response.
Edangered species act became a reason to through people off public lands and start regulating grazing rights. Many ranchers where not able to comply because of the added cost and gave up there grazing permits.
Cattle grazing on public land are a hazzard to endangered critters. What the heck did a million or more Buffalo do to the land?? In all the debate about cattle grazing on public everyone forgets about the millions of buffalos who used to live there.
As to Bundy, if the goverment was that pissed off at him, why was he not arrested like anyone else who runs afoul of the government??
As to the people who showed up. What do you expect when the govenment stops listing to the people? Bundy stated his position to the courts and was ignored. He is not the only one, just the one who has made headlines. I believe that this not a question of right or wrong, it is the enviromentists forceing its will on the BLM/Forest Service who pass there crap on to us.
The tree huggers and enviromentlist will not be happy until all people and activits are removed from public lands, then they will go after private lands. This is from a Siearra Club members mouth.

 

[oknow]

Round two now in Utah

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...s-currently-brewing-in-recapture-canyon-utah/

 

[Sabertooth]

Here's another dumb Blm/forest service rule. If you have a Duce an a half with license plates you can drive where ever you want on public lands. If you have an atv hell no!! You might run over something.