What about everybody else?

[dream45]

There are some good topics here. there are alot of benefits of staying with the tribe and can see how the local school or parish would be an asset. In our SE pdx hood there is an abundant food pantry that delivers to the needy. I could see the local school being one of the only shelters to survive an earthquake as it is a newer building. People would naturally be drawn to this for help, fellowship and sharing of information.

Then I wonder how long before the help each other becomes help yourself. I imagine your tribe would get smaller and smaller as people had to choose those they would share supplies, skill and trust with.

If things went beyond a few months and you were forced to hit the road, wonder if using a car would even be an option. My thoughts go to walking the railroad tracks, bike trails, or river travel. Just think of the river traffic if the bridges and hwys were shut down. Everyone with any type of craft would be on the water.

I have local bug out options North, West, and East, and have thought of transportation other than cars, but feel that each location would be in the same position or easily depleted by others who got there before me. It is a quandary on if it is better to sit tight or be the first one out and leave most of my gear behind to be taken by those who stay.

If you decided to stay then it is best to have your best gear with you. If you plan to be the first out then seems that you would go light and fast and have your best gear at your chosen rally point. If only bug out situations were announce well in advance I could then schedule in in outlook and be ready to go. <broken link removed>

 

[Just Jim]

There seems to be a common belief that we are in for a real test of our values. You have to ask yourself "who will score the test?" Will ya get an A or an F? Guess it's all in what or who you belive in. Test are good and should come often in life so you know your values.

jj

 

[Mark W.]

Floating out of town on the river is always an option.
Heck even a log will end up at the pacific.

You have obviously never been across the Columbia River bar!

 

[Just Jim]

You have obviously never been across the Columbia River bar!

Nor does he understand hypothermia

jj

 

[OPAWY]

I think it all depend on where a person is in their spirituality; some of us would rather starve than turn away a brother; some of us would rather turn away a brother than starve.

The reality is, people survive better in groups, especially when they can incorporate the individual skills of each member of the group. Groups or tribes of people will have better defensive capabilities, hunting options, and harvesting options. People have always gathered in groups for security and livability conditions.

Yes, this has been shown throughout time. There will always be wolves, sheep and sheep dogs. Spirituality will determine much of what a man or woman will be in those days.

 

[Riot]

I not to sure how to word this but here it goes. I have been reading this thread with great interest, and have learn alot thankyou to all. I live in the middle of PDX and I have been trying to prepare for disastor as best I can. If somthing bad happens I am going to have to stay here unless the city tells me I have to move. My question is what about everybody else? If some one comes to my door asks for help I am going to try to help, I cannot turn them away. One of the reasons I became a ham radio operator is community service. I think back about Katrina and how bad it was at the super dome and still seeing people helping people in some of those news clips, not many but some. My hope is that all of you that are preparing to take care of your selves and family might try to to help others that can't help themselves as best as you can.

James W. Rawles (owner of survivalblog.com) covers this. He has a saying- "give until it hurts". Sounds like you are in the same mindset. However, there are a lot of things I don't thing you aren't considering. For example, ever thought about a pandemic? If there was an airborne disease that killed 30-40% of those infected, would you want random people coming to your doorstep? Ever thought about getting involved in an emergency group or rallying up some people and formulating a plan? How about getting your church involved? You could always donate "at arms length" (something J.W.R. also recommends).

I will never fault you for wanting to help your fellow man, just make sure you protect your own 6 before someone else's!

 

[slingshot1943]

I think about wildlife management. If there are twice as many deer as there is forage, it is not 50% that die. They all die.

 

[MA Duce]

You have obviously never been across the Columbia River bar!

The Columbia River Bar is overrated......I used to play out there with my buddies. Wouldn't try it on a log however!!!!

 

[The Quiet Man]

Not so long ago I bought a 1 month supply of food for my wife and I. Mostly for the overdue NW earthquake. I started to think about this very scenario and ended up buying 5, 5 gallon buckets of rice and beans.

I have a theory that people will end up gathering at churches, fire stations and schools... I figure I'll take the buckets to the nearby fire station and give it all away. I personally could not stand living fat while my neighbors starve.

Depending on your definition of "neighbors", you likely have some who are out of work through no fault of their own, in the process of losing their homes because they cannot pay the mortgage, having their cars repossessed, going without adequate health insurance, and yes even hungry. For many people right now, this is SHTF.

Here is a rhetorical question for ALL (not picking on powersbj specifically) of you who feel so strongly about helping others whenever they "need it". Are you taking your extra cash and food "down to the fire station on a regular basis now"?

 

[powersbj]

Depending on your definition of "neighbors", you likely have some who are out of work through no fault of their own, in the process of losing their homes because they cannot pay the mortgage, having their cars repossessed, going without adequate health insurance, and yes even hungry. For many people right now, this is SHTF.

Here is a rhetorical question for ALL (not picking on powersbj specifically) of you who feel so strongly about helping others whenever they "need it". Are you taking your extra cash and food "down to the fire station on a regular basis now"?

Loss of wealth is not the same as loss of life. Saving someones life by feeding them is a far cry from making sure they keep their Honda. Having to clarify that point to anyone disturbs me.

How much I currently donate to charity is none of your business, there is no reason for me to offer my actions to your subjective moral meter.

(not picking back just arguing from a phylisophical standpoint)

 

[mjbskwim]

I kinda look at it as, if ,after all that has gone on in the last year or 2,hasn't made you think of being more prepared,then you will always be at risk of having nothing.
If you are still out buying "goodies" instead of stocking up on supplies,I'm sorry.

Seems like being prepared might include trying to educate your friends about stock piling?

That way when you have to say "Gosh,I have stored enough for MY family's needs" they will remember that you "told them so"

 

[powersbj]

What of an orphaned kid, say an age of 9, who's parents died? Or a friend who was fully prepped but lost all of their supplies in the disaster. Let's remove the blame from the people asking for help let's assume for a moment that they have done all they can... Now do you help them?

 

[Wheeler44]

What of an orphaned kid, say an age of 9, who's parents died? Or a friend who was fully prepped but lost all of their supplies in the disaster. Let's remove the blame from the people asking for help let's assume for a moment that they have done all they can... Now do you help them?

Some folks....No matter the circumstance they wouldn't help anybody without expecting a payoff.......Others don't need any excuse to help another person in distress....Folks is folks.......I hope that all are ready to live with their decisions.

W44

 

[powersbj]

Maybe Wheeler, but I have this crazy idea that these people aint no where near hard enough to do what they are saying they will do without messing up their head a bit.

A couple points for disscussion.

1. Individuals have a responsibility to care for those whom are incapable of doing it for themselves, I would say short of neglecting your own family. I think it is unfortunate that we clump those who are unwilling, with those who are unable. And then confuse the individuals role vs the governments. It all becomes very reactionary and the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater.

2. It is important to know who you are, how you react under stress and how your family will react under stress. Ask yourself some questions. Will your wife let die, a starving infant left on your door step? Would you? Could you really force her to? How far are you willing to go to survive? If you can be honest you can build your preps around you and your family not just a fantasy situation.

 

[Siglvr]

This was verbatim a letter to my brother dated June 03,2005: For the record, I have always been pissed about the way the Iraq war was unilaterally and arguably criminally crammed down the rest of the worlds throat, it makes the world a more unsafe place and more likely that an antagonist attacks us unilaterally without discussion or warning in the future. There is a reason for international treaties and laws. This occasion was an email debate we had going about the Iraq war. In my family, our extended family get togethers always feature raucous, loud and contentious debates and discussions of a political nature. We rarely agree on matters, but at the end of the day, we still love and respect that person, knowing them, their attitudes, feelings and their rationals: better. The discussion will often carry over to extended long-term email debates with 4 part harmony and 27 glossy pictures with arrows and diagrams on the back. This post is not about all that. It is to show another side to the whole thing. A single thing. A thing most of us here are safe and shielded from. Black and white rarely exists in the world. Probably that is the case here as well. Sigh...anyway, my point is 2 fold here. First, we don't know what is going to occur, when or how. Next, my response towards feeling a personal threat of a possible rogue gas attack from a seaborn container lit off by terrorists or Saddams minions was to go out and buy gas masks for everyone adult in my family and extended family, plus for all of the children on the block. See, I didn't want to live believing that I'd survive and all the kids around here would die. I told some of the parents my decision, that is, to buy something that would help their child live but to purposely ignore them and God forbid this rare situation were to occur, they would die. Invariably they were shocked beyond words for many reasons. So if you have the ability to prepare not just for yourself but for some others as well: when or if they do come knocking, you will be able to help them in their darkest hour of most dire need.

Full text of the letter to my brother follows:


"I have a personal story I want to share with you. This really happened to me personally, this isn't a slanted news report - no extra elaboration is added or needed, it is 100 percent truth, really happened. I was down at the local park, approx mid 1990's, less than a block from my home . There was a small group of bronzed skinned dark-haired middle-eastern looking men, @10 or so, playing with a soccer ball, messing around. I did not know their country of origin, and the language was not familiar to me. I crowded closer, interested. Paying closer attention, I would have guessed they were Turks, but I knew they were not. Perhaps Armenians? I thought not, but had never been to Armenia and was not positive. I spotted a younger white American chick with the group so as is my personal custom, I went right up and asked. "Hi, I'm curious, where are these guys from?".

"They are Kurds", she replies, "from Iraq".

Hmmm, we'd just been overthere in 1991 fighting a war. "Why are they here in the US", I ask, raising an eyebrow.

"They had worked for the US government", she said, "and if they stayed there their lives would be at risk. As it is, they are afraid that their families over there may be suffering now for their choices."

"CIA?", I bluntly suggested.

"I can't say, I'm sort of a liaison to help them around over here", she reply's.

I figure CIA for sure.

I'm standing there checking them out, being ignored by the dudes, when she says: " Yeah, some of them have had it pretty tough"............

"How so" I ask.

"See that guy over there", she nods her head in the direction of an older 40 year old fella somberly standing off to the side and not participating in the game. "He was in his village when an Iraqi government plane flew over.......... dumping poisonous gas down......, almost everybody in his village was killed: .... including all of his family and friends,.......... he and a very few others in the village had gas masks ........... and they survived".

"Jesus Christ" I quietly whistled through my teeth, thinking I couldn't imagine what it would be like to see all of my loved ones gassed to death right in front of me, and to survive with that memory.
We were done talking. I watched and marveled in sadness for a few minutes, wondering what other horrors these guys had witnessed, then walked away silently, carrying that memory to this day.

So this is what I think, and no amount of articles you send will change my mind unless they start presenting hard facts and not innuendos: Cause I know some facts...personally. F*#k Saddam Hussein that evil f*#king bastard, we should kill that motherf*#ker every day for eternity may he rot in **** being sodomized daily sans Vaseline by the Devil himself that lying murdering son of a bubblegum. I think that the loved ones of those Kurds and also the Shia massacred in the south of Iraq whom are still being uncovered in mass unmarked graves would have a different opinion than you apparently do. Do you not believe Israel was next on that crazy pricks tick list of neighbors to attack? The 1/2 a million or so Jews not gassed in the next attack will hopefully live lives of quiet peace because of our countries actions. Lets see if you have the courage to widely publicize my words (which do not support your anti-war beliefs ) to your anti-war friends.


Have a nice day:

Love - "


So for myself, if I can get it together enough in advance, anyone knocking on my door will have a nosh. Hopefully, working together, we can all of us make it though whatever trying time will have been encountered. I figure that water is the most critical issue, yet we live near a river and it is a wet part of the country. So I have a good water filter and a back up water filter as well. Followed by food...we should all be OK, and hopefully less of a burden to the emergency management folks who will undoubtedly have their hands full. I'm not telling anyone else what do do, but folks should consider these issues. More than at any time in our lives: if this horrible event everyone keeps referring too happens for real (whatever it turns out being): we will need to all step up as individuals and pitch in for everyone who needs it. Take care of yourself first, get your family and personal situation squared away - and then start looking around to see whom else you can help and what you can contribute. It's possible that an earthquake takes all of the houses down and none of this prep stockpiling will matter when everything we have is buried or ruined and most of us dead in the rubble. Those that survive can dig. Hope for the best, prepare for the worse.

 

[i8asquirrel]

Just my 2 cents.....
If you think you can sit in your recliner while playing on your laptop and state how you will react, You can't! I believe that we will see natural selection come back into the picture. The most fit to survive may not be the most Physically fit, but best prepared and most willing to survive.
The thought of Bugging out may be romantic to some but its a BS. for most. Unless you have a plan to E&E your not getting out of the cities. picture rush hour in any metropolitan area, now think of those vehicles abandoned or broke down. nobody will be driving anyplace.
Now think of putting your BOB and your weapon, ammo, and assorted gear...Now try walking a couple miles. Now think of moving and dragging family members ,friends, wounded , needy........
If the hammer ever falls it will forge a new world, unfortunatly most of us wont be in it long.

 

[accurateone]

I think those who watch "events", and are "prepared" minded have already bugged out. If you still live in a medium to large city possibly you're already Trapped. You've been captured by convenience, lifestyle, work opportunities... Perhaps some of our greatest "arm chair survivalists" just don't have the cojones to lay it down to their better half or family and say "this is it, we're moving by this date." You'll be caught with your pants down. I remember about 4 years ago putting my arm around my lovely wife walking out in the front yard & looking up and down the culdesac of beautiful homes we loved... and saying "we need to move"...and why. I became most unpopular with the whole house. We've been moved 2 years now... enjoy going back to visit but wouldn't live in the city now. Kids, through social networking, keep up with old friends, make new ones, get involved in school and move on, the "hate dad for ruining my life" period has even ended. Phew! The family is closer, the distractions less, and if things sour I've done the big part of getting my family safely out of the mess. If things don't "sour" my kids have had the experience of a variety of life styles, If things do go south, their odds are greatly increased out here.
I love reading these posts from the enthusiastic newby to the seasoned old farts. unfortunately lately our society has been taking some harder hits than most could endure... many people are falling under the bus financially, many are getting worn down & losing the strength to stand on a daily basis. If we we're looking at our nation like an investment house... that you're gonna live in, I'd say look around carefully, slowly. Look around, it doesn't just need cosmetics... the foundation has some real problems, and there are enemies at the gate!
The title of this thread was "WHAT ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE?"
NEWS FLASH: If you don't quit pumping methane and become a doer, you already are DISPOSED to be one of the every body else.

LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION: Have you prayed today? NOW, TAKE A QUIET MINUTE TO LISTEN. Have you prepped today? Have you exchanged some fiat currency for precious metals? Will your family be stuck in a city if an authority body starts "Kettling" you all in to a "safety center," void of your possessions & freedoms? See Katrina.

The ACTIONS you do, or don't do today, THESE ARE YOUR life effecting choices!
I learned something in advanced first aid training... most car accidents happen within 6 miles of home. The first aid you learn today will probably be applied to your direct family, or someone you know. These are statistical facts. also, if you don't know what to do... help is not guaranteed to come in time.

People are counting on you... MAKE IT A GREAT DAY!
A1

 

[westernsky20]

Holly thread resurection batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[accurateone]

Takeabreak,
I hope my last entry was not offensive. My point was not directed at you or anyone specifically, contrarily, I enjoy what you have to say.
It's just that I've lived through disaster, Volcano, Flood, and man made problems.
When we took a CC class the one thing the instructor pressed was don't put your self in a situation you know is going to be dangerous, and if you do find yourself in a pickle try to flee, avoid the need for deadly force. Deadly force is a LAST resort for self preservation... not something you go looking to use. If you're not wise you could end up injured, dead, or in serious legal trouble.. and lose your CC & more.
We know enough not to cut through a dark alley in a seedy part of town, we know enough not to camp next to a creek in a flood plain during a rainy season, but when we see disaster coming our way we're too slow pulling our families out of harms way because of the cost & resistance.
Think of all the news shots of People grid locked trying to flee hurricanes in Texas & Florida etc..they waited too long. Better yet look up the history of Vanport, Oregon... Some times when you wait till the last minute it's too late, sometimes one just shouldn,t be there in the first place.
Well there are some people who still choose to ignore National WEATHER SERVICE Hurricane warnings on the east coast, and some people still build mobile home parks at the base of dams... and some will say our economy is doing great, we have no worries! I guess it takes all types.
A1

 

[mauser54]

Key word here. "Disernment". In a SHTF scenario and life has just jumped into survival mode. All of us will have to use our best judgement in all situations. I think if anyone is able to help others out with a little food or a good nights sleep, whatever... We will have to judge the person or people at the time in any given situation. For one the people who didn't prepare will be hungry, tired, etc.. Alot of these people will be good honest people looking for some good honest help. Then there will be the people who will do whatever it takes to get food, firearms and ammunition etc... They are the ones we will have to worry about. They can come to your door wanting help, while you are helping them, without you noticing they will be paying attention to everything about you, your place and what you may or maynot have and along with how many others are there with you. These are the people that may come back at a later time after you have helped them out with a meal or whtever it was. But this time when they come back they may come with others armed and planning to take away everyhting you have even if they have to kill you and your family to do it. There will be so many scenarios and situations that will come up, that even though we want to help other people out as much as we can, we all better learn to use dissernment and judgement in those days or any of us may end up dead by not doing so.