Washington Washington Democrats File Permit-to-Purchase Bill and More

[ma96782]

No Matter.
Why?
Well, according to the WA legislator and the Anti-Gun folks.....



Translation : The US Constitution don't matter.



Aloha, Mark

 

[gmerkt]

Imo that community thrives under a socialist/Marxist ideology. There must always be an "oppressed class", whether that is native Americans, other race, or other "under served", "under priveleged", or another class. If there isn't one they have to make one up. There is always an "oppressor class" and always the "oppressed class". Without that the ideology falls apart.

So for example in California they are considering giving trans people $1200 per month simply because they say they are of a certain orientation. And a certain race they proposed to give each resident $1.2 million cash. There is always a "guilt" and a "need" to help the "oppressed" and to hurt the "oppressor".

Gun owners are considered part of "the oppressor" class vs homeless, lgbt, etc etc are "the oppressed" class.

I couldn't have said it better.

 

[po18guy]

What is it giong to take to get people to take a stand, instead of just complaining about it?

I donate monthly to the Second Amendment Foundation. They have been pretty successful in filing or supporting court challenges.

 

[OneArgus]

Republic, not a democracy.
When will we ever get it. The majority rule is not written in the Constitution or Bill of rights.
Many discussions before these became the way of life. Discussed the purpose of a Republic
was so all people were free. Freedom, is not doled out like food stamps.
When I see all the money pumped into these so called will not comply groups and lobbyist,
who fail to secure the rights guaranteed. Makes me sick that we trusted their leadership
They took billions and did nothing, solve nothing.

 

[Old Dog]

This legislation will happen. Penalties for late renewal of the permit to purchase. No plan for funding anything at any level. No plan for fees.

Washington will be far worse than any other state, with the possible exception of New York.

(b) A background check for an original permit must be conducted 18 through the Washington state patrol criminal records division and 19 shall include a national check from the federal bureau of 20 investigation through the submission of fingerprints.
Training requirements will be much stricter, and regulated:

Sec. 3. RCW 9.41.1132 and 2023 c 161 s 2 are each amended to read as follows:1516 (1) A person applying for ((the purchase or transfer of a 17 firearm)) a permit to purchase firearms must provide ((proof)) a 18 certificate of completion of a ((recognized)) certified firearms 19 safety training program within the last five years that, at a minimum, includes instruction on:20
(a) Basic firearms safety rules;2122
(b) Firearms and children, including secure gun storage and talking to children about gun safety;23
(c) Firearms and suicide prevention;2425
(d) Secure gun storage to prevent unauthorized access and use;
(e) Safe handling of firearms;2627 (f) State and federal firearms laws, including prohibited 28 firearms transfers and locations where firearms are prohibited;29
(g) State laws pertaining to the use of deadly force for self30 defense; ((and))31
(h) Techniques for avoiding a criminal attack and how to manage a 32 violent confrontation, including conflict resolution; and33
(i) Live-fire shooting exercises on a firing range that include a 34 demonstration by the applicant of the safe handling of, and shooting proficiency with, firearms.3536

(2) The training must be sponsored by a federal, state, county, 37 or municipal law enforcement agency, a college or university, a 38 nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms 39 training, or a firearms training school with instructors certified by p. 8 HB 19021 a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms 2 training. The ((proof)) certificate of training shall be in the form 3 ((of a certification that states under the penalty of perjury that 4 the training included the minimum requirements)) and manner of 5 documentation developed by the Washington state patrol under section 4 of this act

Makes me sick that we trusted their leadership

Who is this "we" you speak of, Kemo Sabe?

 

[Jcon268]

Agreed.
However, using Costco as an example, if I have my permit, do I get to purchase five guns for the price of three, or primers for $30/brick, powder at $25/lb?

Make me get the permit and in exchange I want to buy guns without filling out 4473s for the duration that permit is good for. I mean, they already did the background check, so why do they need more?? Does doubling or tripling down on these checks do anything meaningful?
Oh yeah... because in reality, this is about nothing more than making gun ownership obnoxiously difficult. It really just is an F U to gun owners without doing a damn thing to stop a criminal from committing a crime.

 

[Jcon268]

Sec. 3. RCW 9.41.1132 and 2023 c 161 s 2 are each amended to read as follows:1516 (1) A person applying for ((the purchase or transfer of a 17 firearm)) a permit to purchase firearms must provide ((proof)) a 18 certificate of completion of a ((recognized)) certified firearms 19 safety training program within the last five years that, at a minimum, includes instruction on:20
(a) Basic firearms safety rules;2122
(b) Firearms and children, including secure gun storage and talking to children about gun safety;23
(c) Firearms and suicide prevention;2425
(d) Secure gun storage to prevent unauthorized access and use;
(e) Safe handling of firearms;2627 (f) State and federal firearms laws, including prohibited 28 firearms transfers and locations where firearms are prohibited;29
(g) State laws pertaining to the use of deadly force for self30 defense; ((and))31
(h) Techniques for avoiding a criminal attack and how to manage a 32 violent confrontation, including conflict resolution; and33
(i) Live-fire shooting exercises on a firing range that include a 34 demonstration by the applicant of the safe handling of, and shooting proficiency with, firearms.3536

All of these requirements of "proficiency" for a natural right to self-defense. The left likes to compare to permits for driving a car (which is NOT a right). Do they even make you demonstrate proficiency behind the wheel anymore? When is the last time someone was required to parallel park to get a driver's license?

While they're at it, maybe they should require proof that any liquor you might have in the home is under lock and key to have a driver's license for that matter. Apparently our government doesn't trust people, I guess it's time to get serious about drunk driving potential. Or maybe just ban alcohol because "someone could do something."

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Make me get the permit and in exchange I want to buy guns without filling out 4473s for the duration that permit is good for. I mean, they already did the background check, so why do they need more?? Does doubling or tripling down on these checks do anything meaningful?
Oh yeah... because in reality, this is about nothing more than making gun ownership obnoxiously difficult. It really just is an F U to gun owners without doing a damn thing to stop a criminal from committing a crime.

Don't forget that by getting the permit you are stepping onto the WA gun registry (and I believe long term gun control-likely confiscation in the long term) treadmill. That doesn't mean a person is immune to their gun control efforts if you never sign up for their permit process. It only means it's easier to get to you if you are in their formal gun permit/registry process. Fe it's WA law right now that you have to get yearly background checks to keep your guns. They can't implement it yet, but it's law already. So under current law (shown below) violating any WA laws (which they can add more at any time in the future) means you are no longer eligible to own guns (guns already in your possession, not just new purchases).


Looking into the future for WA imo the table is set for gun confiscation. The gun registry/permit process gives them the basic means to do it in the future if they want to (note that future funding is also needed). Of course if the laws are challenged and scotus throws them out, then they can't implement it. But who knows who will be on SCOTUS in the future. Note this is talking long term only if things continue to progress as they have been (extremely likely IMO). Just for example they pass a law that all semi auto guns are now illegal and they provide funding to implement the yearly bageound check law shown above.

Bottom line is that WA permit/gun registry is likely a lot more scary (in terms of enabling future gun confiscation) than it appears right now to most people (who think it only affects buying new guns). All imo.

 

[Jcon268]

Don't forget that by getting the permit you are stepping onto the WA gun registry (and I believe long term gun control-likely confiscation in the long term) treadmill. That doesn't mean a person is immune to their gun control efforts if you never sign up for their permit process. It only means it's easier to get to you if you are in their formal gun permit/registry process. Fe it's WA law right now that you have to get yearly background checks to keep your guns. They can't implement it yet, but it's law already. So under current law (shown below) violating any WA laws (which they can add more at any time in the future) means you are no longer eligible to own guns (guns already in your possession, not just new purchases).

View attachment 1787574
Looking into the future for WA imo the table is set for gun confiscation. The gun registry/permit process gives them the basic means to do it in the future if they want to (note that future funding is also needed). Of course if the laws are challenged and scotus throws them out, then they can't implement it. But who knows who will be on SCOTUS in the future. Note this is talking long term only if things continue to progress as they have been (extremely likely IMO). All imo.

They've definitely taken it to an all new level in WA. I'm sure the appeals are already well underway in the higher courts. Once again, they're using your state as an experiment in violating the Constitution because "It'S tHe PeOpLe'S WiLL." The Constitution was designed to protect individual rights from stupidity and tyranny.
If things turn out favorably in higher courts, hopefully it will set a precedent that will make it far more difficult for them in the future.

 

[Jcon268]

Don't forget that by getting the permit you are stepping onto the WA gun registry (and I believe long term gun control-likely confiscation in the long term) treadmill. That doesn't mean a person is immune to their gun control efforts if you never sign up for their permit process. It only means it's easier to get to you if you are in their formal gun permit/registry process.

And they sold everyone on this being about those big bad scary "assault" guns and "high capacity" magazines when it really now affects EVERY gun owner by implementing this permit system. This is the making of fascism, really.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

They've definitely taken it to an all new level in WA. I'm sure the appeals are already well underway in the higher courts. Once again, they're using your state as an experiment in violating the Constitution because "It'S tHe PeOpLe'S WiLL." The Constitution was designed to protect individual rights from stupidity and tyranny.
If things turn out favorably in higher courts, hopefully it will set a precedent that will make it far more difficult for them in the future.

I think if this WA gun permit/registry goes unchecked then in the long term WA will be similar to England. A few people will be allowed to have guns if they go through tons of hoops such as yearly background checks (already WA law), only certain guns allowed, use only in certain places, home storage inspection, etc. Europe (England especially) show the slow incremental confiscation process that could happen here (unless scotus stops them). IMO the way to fight this effectively is kill the permit process (if possible) and donate to the groups fighting BS gun laws effectively (f.e. SAF, GOA, FPC).

 

[Jcon268]

I think if this WA gun permit/registry goes unchecked then in the long term WA will be similar to England. A few people will be allowed to have guns if they go through tons of hoops such as yearly background checks (already WA law), only certain guns allowed, use only in certain places, home storage inspection, etc. Europe (England especially) show the slow incremental confiscation process that could happen here (unless scotus stops them). IMO the way to fight this effectively is kill the permit process (if possible) and donate to the groups fighting this effectively (f.e. SAF, GOA, FPC).

Yep, they've set the table for it perfectly. Once again, the 2A was about preventing gubernment from restricting our gun rights and yet they're the ones with top-to-bottom control of this scheme, all under the guise of being the will of the people. These are the most dangerous gun bills to pass in recent history, definitely puts their tyranny up there with the likes of NY and even worse than California. In California, you can still have scary weapons you just to have to make them look a little less scary by putting a fin on the back of the grip or something.

 

[RVTECH]

YES! The part that frosts me is when those who will not even vote then scream and stamp their feet when new laws go in that effect them

And this is assuming they even knew about the proposed law/bill prior to its passing -which i know for a fact many do not.

Another very big part of the problem is out of all pro 2a gun owners, what percentage of them actually follow the laws, stay abreast of the issues etc? Say as such as acutely as 'we' do? IE like us active forum members? Maybe 20 % ?

 

[CamoDeafie]

And this is assuming they even knew about the proposed law/bill prior to its passing -which i know for a fact many do not.

Another very big part of the problem is out of all pro 2a gun owners, what percentage of them actually follow the laws, stay abreast of the issues etc? Say as such as acutely as 'we' do? IE like us active forum members? Maybe 20 % ?

More like 5% of gun owners, 10% of the "pro2A" are active, the rest more likely "I'm pro2A but..."

 

[Koda]

first they disarmed your magazines and rifles, now they want you to demonstrate proficiency to exercise your right.

It only gets worse, now they are talking about reducing sentences for violent criminals.

Essentially, people convicted of crimes have had time added to their sentences based on their criminal history, for using a weapon, and in some cases, if they went to trial instead of taking a plea deal. Through the 1984 Sentencing Reform Act, the state also abolished the option for many prisoners to seek parole.....

....In recent years, Washington has taken steps to undo some of those policies, as leaders shift the state away from handing down longer and life sentences. But relief for people who are already in prison remains in short supply, something Smith says should change.

Behind bars and then a bill: Washington prisoner leads effort on ‘second chance’ legislation

Washington lawmakers are getting ready to tackle big topics in 2024, including undoing harm caused by long or life prison sentences. Charles Longshore has spent months crafting a bill to make a small but significant change as part of that effort.

www.opb.org

 

[American123]

I have friends that are liberals and they are highly intelligent people, people I can trust, and would go to the Earths ends to help me if needed. I'm torn with the idea of thinking less of them over gun rights (or other politics) but they really don't understand how their own policies they voted for hurt them. A friend once told me "when am I ever gonna need an AR15" yet since then violent crime in their city has doubled over the policies of the very people they voted for. And I cant seem to get this thru to them. I don't know what to think anymore.

Delusional people can still be intelligent in the sense that they understand some things. Some people are so committed to an ideology that they ignore the reality that conflicts with it.

 

[GoShooting]

Think of all the people who have jobs and build their businesses and enrich their careers with all these laws. (Politicians, news media, attorneys etc., etc.) To many people producing nothing of value whether right or left.

What's the solution? What action are we taking other than venting on a forum? Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for this forum… but it would be nice if our energy could be used more effectively.

How come we never see a petition to sign for repealing these laws and the politicians that come up with them? Aren't these in direct violation of what our wise founding fathers designed?

How about fighting back to repeal the laws that protect the politicians from being prosecuted for treason, by directly violating our constitution?

Are the attorneys and organizations that enrich themselves through writing and fighting these laws part of the money trail?

It is my understanding through watching documentary videos, that some countries like Switzerland, it is everyones DUTY to own and shoot guns. They are not a bunch of gun lovers or haters lol. They are educated in firearms and the need to be armed is understood by all… they are gun respecters because they understand so many things about freedom that our citizens have forgotten or have never been taught.

They are forced to join the military. They are issued a weapon and take it with them after completing their service. Each year they must prove by written documentation that they visited a gun range and shot firearms. (I can hear the left crying government over reach, using the same arguments as the right does in other areas).

Do many girly men these days that refuse their Duty's as men IMO. Now will I be kicked off this Forum… hmmm?

It's about DUTY that everyone must serve in the military and know how to use a firearm.

It really seems hopeless by what we see all around us.

We have a mentally ill society that is now teaching our children the same systems that destroyed nations before us.

If you haven't noticed our education system is failing and our Judicial system.

Wake up those people that are capable, knowledgeable and are in positions of power to take action… is there anyone left?

 

[Alexx1401]

Think of all the people who have jobs and build their businesses and enrich their careers with all these laws. (Politicians, news media, attorneys etc., etc.) To many people producing nothing of value whether right or left.

What's the solution? What action are we taking other than venting on a forum? Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for this forum… but it would be nice if our energy could be used more effectively.

How come we never see a petition to sign for repealing these laws and the politicians that come up with them? Aren't these in direct violation of what our wise founding fathers designed?

I see you just joined this place. I have to "guess" you were not reading this group for a while before joining? Stick around for a while and when you see how it works in the real world it may sadden you a little. There are a few who have really put in effort to fight. A gun shop down your way put up their own money and time to try to give us a do over on 1639. Look up how it went and you will see why so many of us get so pissed off at other gun owners. Sporting Systems put up the money and time and most gun owners just ignored it. Sadly things just have not gotten bad enough to get a lot of gun owners to stop sitting on their hands no matter how hard a few have tried to get them to make a simple try. Not sure how bad it will have to get here to really wake most up. It can be slowed and even stopped and reversed but, sadly way too many just don't care. At least not yet.

 

[Jay Walk]

You must get a background check before you can get a background check, under the new system.

 

[jackrv]

the 2A was about preventing gubernment from restricting our gun rights

The 2nd is for Federal prevention of restrictions. Your state Constitution is where you need to go for fighting state restrictions.