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This, and the lives lost.
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Wars are not won with pistols.
- Thread Starter j_ravenswood
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It's a nice assumption that mechanics, and supply personnel are "rear echelon" in practice, it's not really accurate. Those people need to move up to support the battlefield, it is also the doctrine of our traditional enemies to target supply lines. The military police primary weapon in garrison while pulling police duty is a pistol. But in the field their kit is in line with any other combat arms element.
Back in the day the primary weapon of armor crews was a pistol. Very quickly in the GWOT it changed to everyone having an M4.
So all in all I think a lot of your information is dated.
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In the British Armed Forces we don't have Jehovah's Witness padres, just the two basic types of Christian and, if needed, we hire in a Rabbi. No particular reason, but in general, Jews are rare indeed in the British Armed Forces. I only met one other in all my 33 years in.
Newt-fondlers, Seventh-day Tree Worshippers and Wicca can go do their own thing when there is a compulsory church parade, as for the rest of us, we ALL go to Church with the Christians, even if it's just to join in the sing-song.Last time I was in a church and in uniform, my Sikh corporal [not a Christian, note] was on one side of me, and Mo Khan, definitely not a Christian, was on the other. The guy we were commemorating must have been somewhere laffing his socks off to see us there.
My Dog Tags said "no Preference" I figured if I was bad enough off to need words said over me anyone with an open mike to god would do.
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Time changes requirements and techniques. In WW1 trench warfare, pistols were sometimes handy at a time when short rifles were not the rule. Submachine guns came into that war late.
Handguns were often seen as a kind of badge of office for officers and NCO's. However, they had practical use at times to keep their own soldiers on the line instead of retreating in panic to the rear. The Soviets used them to dispatch inconvenient POW's.
Pilots, aviators, armor crewmen, etc., are sometimes issued handguns due to compact yet convenient size of the weapon. For flying personnel, there is also a morale issue. Going down with a sidearm gives them a little more confidence of safety once down. Air/sea rescue has a similar dual role. Flying personnel are more comfortable going up knowing that rescue is a possibility.
Service support personnel in the rear are issued rifles because they may be called forth to assist in infantry operations. Every soldier is basically a rifleman, including cooks, clerks and bakers.
The role of the military police in garrison is very different from their role in the field.
Handguns aren't a decisive weapon in the military but they have their place.
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Was issued and used a 1911 with a brown flap holster. Being the smallest
guy in my platoon, I got to go into "small tunnels." 1911's absolutely had their place on the battlefields.
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I never had to qualify with a rifle of any type during my service. Pistol, grenades, and tank weapons. I only live-fired an M-16 on one day at OSUT, and no one kept score, lol.
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Yup, my bacon was saved in combat by the 1911 I was issued more times than I can count, or care to remember.
Out of rifle ammo because there were too many of "them" in the jungle or on the hill and not enough of "us"? Been there, done that.
Enemy dug in tighter than ticks on a fat deer in an AO that was "clean"? Been there, done that too.
Out of rifle ammo because there were too many of "them" in the jungle or on the hill and not enough of "us"? Been there, done that.
Enemy dug in tighter than ticks on a fat deer in an AO that was "clean"? Been there, done that too.
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After retiring from the military, it was my distinct honor to work (civilian DoD) alongside a humble fellow named John McGinty. Vietnam vet with a pirate eye patch, he never spoke of his past beyond telling soon-to-separate Marines and Sailors that the VA took good care of him after he left the service. I figured he had seen his share of the bad stuff and never pressed him for more.
One afternoon, I was upstairs in a hallway at Camp Pendleton School of Infantry and noticed John's name on a framed Medal of Honor citation. He's easy enough to Google if you're so inclined. Here's the part that caught my attention:
"Finding 20 men wounded and the medical corpsmen killed," Sergeant McGinty "reloaded ammunition magazines and weapons for the wounded men and directed their fire upon the enemy."
When North Vietnamese soldiers tried to outflank their position, "he killed five of them at point-blank range with his pistol," the citation said, and called in artillery and airstrikes to within yards of his own position.
Sounds to me like a creative combination of weaponry (and balls the size of Winnebagos) will sometimes do the trick.
One afternoon, I was upstairs in a hallway at Camp Pendleton School of Infantry and noticed John's name on a framed Medal of Honor citation. He's easy enough to Google if you're so inclined. Here's the part that caught my attention:
"Finding 20 men wounded and the medical corpsmen killed," Sergeant McGinty "reloaded ammunition magazines and weapons for the wounded men and directed their fire upon the enemy."
When North Vietnamese soldiers tried to outflank their position, "he killed five of them at point-blank range with his pistol," the citation said, and called in artillery and airstrikes to within yards of his own position.
Sounds to me like a creative combination of weaponry (and balls the size of Winnebagos) will sometimes do the trick.
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Pistols...they're much, much better than being unarmed.
Member 18201
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A mentor of mine was an active duty Marine during the disagreement in Korea.
Shot, with a bayonet stuck through his leg and the Communist biting his free hand, he was able to get his attacker off of him using a 1911.
It won that battle for that Marine on that day.
.........................
Shot, with a bayonet stuck through his leg and the Communist biting his free hand, he was able to get his attacker off of him using a 1911.
It won that battle for that Marine on that day.
.........................
Think I recall Mike Day used his sidearm to end the fight. Of course he's a Navy Seal and apparently can't be killed anyway. Shot 27 times and still decided to clear a couple rooms before walking out to his medic airlift.
He wanted to keep the gun obviously, but they put it back in rotation.
He wanted to keep the gun obviously, but they put it back in rotation.
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There was a wall and floor full of bullet holes with a Mike Day silhouette, amazing story, here an interview he does with Mike Ritland...
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Plus Korea , Vietnam , Grenada , as well as when I was in Panama and Desert Shield / Desert Storm I carried one....
It worked and worked well , for me at least.
Andy
Yep, watched that interview. Really cool to see what true humility is like in someone like Mike Day.
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And with a hand full of lead that was pulled out of him.
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