Wars are not won with pistols.

[j_ravenswood]

I've heard this echoed many times. How many an American soldier's bacon has ever been saved by the presence of a pistol? The military police has the sidearm as its primary weapon. I've heard an Army first sergeant say one can't hit the side of a barn with a pistol. The pistol is the primary weapon for many officers, aviators, medics and tank or artillery crewmen. Why army mechanics, supply personnel and other rear echelon personnel are not issued a pistol over a rifle is beyond me.

Just how important do you think pistols are to mission of the armed services anyway?

Are handguns really underrated as serious weapons for military service?

Are there battle or personal defense scenarios for military personnel whereby rifles, carbines or other types of long weapons would be much too unwieldy?

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[oremike]

Wars are not won by any specific weapon, well other than the Atom Bomb.

 

[Kruel J]

Brave men and women win wars. Weapons are just tools of the trade.

 

[Alexx1401]

The Pistol was long thought by the Military to be something troops did not need and often should not even have. Every person I have ever talked to who was in service seems to think the opposite. I must have run across one but I can't remember, the one who agreed with the Military. All I can remember is the stories of what pistols they carried and where they got them when they were not issued one. Lost track of the tales of how one did save a life.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Pistols are the queen of the modern urban battlefield that we live in day to day.

 

[FourTeeFive]

Traditional foreign wars, no. It typically is a backup weapon. But for daily self defense in urban environments, pistols are crucial.

Fighting pistol: Not just for getting to your rifle

I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t choose a pistol to defend myself over a rifle or a shotgun loaded with slugs. But when it comes down to using a

sofrep.com

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Speaking for myself as one who has seen combat...
I was interested in results....
Did the weapon that I have or used...get the result that I needed....?
If it did...then great...if not...what do I have as a "on call" option in the way of supporting arms....

I found that the rifles that I actually used :
M16A1
M16A2
CAR15
M4 Carbine
M21
M24
M82A1
M203 ( I know not a "rifle" or "Carbine" but attached to one )
All worked well....and got the results that I needed.
My favorites are the M16A2 , CAR15 , M203 and M21

As for handguns...
I was issued a 1911A1 , then a M9 , at various times and places.
Of the two ....I prefer the 1911A1
Andy

 

[MTpockets]

A well respected Officer doesn't need a sidearm.

 

[cigars]

Then there's the practicality aspect of pistols in armor. When I was in armored cav, the tankers were issued 1911's (later Beretta's) as their side arm because rifles kind of don't fit very well inside of a tank turret. For general defense, each tank also had an M3A1 grease gun as the configuration lends itself better to turret life. Ingress and egress from the tank is much easier with a grease gun than with an M16.

 

[j_ravenswood]

A well respected Officer doesn't need a sidearm.

the unit chaplain: I think even military chaplains should have the option of being issued a weapon, the Jehovah's Witnesses are especially pro-self-defense and pro-gun

 

[bbbass]

When I flew rescue missions in the USCG, I carried a standard issue survival knife.... just in case I needed it.

I'm pretty sure those grunts fending off a bayonet charge in the Phillipines were glad to have a 1911 when their very last Garand clip popped out.

 

[MTpockets]

the unit chaplain: I think even military chaplains should have the option of being issued a weapon, the Jehovah's Witnesses are especially pro-self-defense and pro-gun

I was eluding to the whispers about unliked Officers needing a sidearm to protect themselves from their own men.

Our Chaplains were armed with a bible, candy, M9, and a M4. They were well equipped to help you "See the Light."

Here are some pictures of a well respected Company Commander leading his men in a mission with low odds of completion. Small but important piece of a large operation.

Photos are in reverse order for effect.


Major with EOD as they pull up 400+/- meters of command wire.


Difficult to see, but he is well armed.


The reason he was on the ground


He didn't need to be out of his truck, I am sure he didn't want his soldiers out of their armor.


...but I am sure he would have felt safe without his sidearm.

All my respect to Major T!!! Not many CO's would have left the TOC for this daylight mission.


Just one example. Not making a blanket statement.

(Everyone in the truck survived that day)

 

[TTSX]

the unit chaplain: I think even military chaplains should have the option of being issued a weapon, the Jehovah's Witnesses are especially pro-self-defense and pro-gun

Please, please tell me at some point a group of chaplains got door kicking duty just so someone could call in the God squad

 

[titsonritz]

Pistols may not win wars but they can and have saved men and women that do win wars.

 

[Fishonshawn]

I agree with your post that pistols are basically useless in a war. However your statements about MP's having sidearms as a primary weapon and officers is just wrong. Especially in a war zone. While in Baghdad in 2005 I can tell you I never saw anyone outside of a military base with just a pistol. And saying all those "rear echelon" people as you put it should be the ones to have them is also wrong. I was a 63B( light wheeled vehicle mechanic) and was issued a SAW. My entire company was comprised of mechanics, 88M's (drivers) and a couple supply guys. We were also directly attached to a cav scout unit. I cant tell you how many nights we spent out in the city assisting with whatever they needed. I absolutely hate how people assume because I was mechanic that I just stayed in the "rear". Nobody i ever saw while in iraq JUST had a pistol and that was it. Maybe, some of higher up guys did but none that I saw. Our lieutenants and captains had M4's. Our first Sergeant had an M4...everyone had rifle of some kind. And the M&P's that went out definitely had more than just a pistol. And everyone in my company spent time outside the wire. Even our first Sergeant often volunteered to be the gunner in one of the trucks many many times while on a convoy.

 

[Geardo]

Statistically rifles dont even win wars. They are just to make grunts feel better while they call in air strikes and artillery.

Not really, but the majority of kills are indirect fire if I recall correctly.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Speaking only for my self, having a pistol was sure comforting while working a problem and your rifle is leaning on a busted hulk of a Hummer, Stryker, or Rhino, ect. and a threat pops up and needs dealt with! Pistols were ether 1911's of Beretta M-9's, or the odd ball S&W .38's a few times! For us, being light quick, and low drag was essential, the heavy hitters were a radio call away, usually a pair on a 1 min orbit!

 

[Medic!]

Fighting disease, hunger and the weather effectively has won most battles over the last 4000 years or so.


Field artillery is nice too.

 

[tac]

the unit chaplain: I think even military chaplains should have the option of being issued a weapon, the Jehovah's Witnesses are especially pro-self-defense and pro-gun

In the British Armed Forces we don't have Jehovah's Witness padres, just the two basic types of Christian and, if needed, we hire in a Rabbi. No particular reason, but in general, Jews are rare indeed in the British Armed Forces. I only met one other in all my 33 years in.

Newt-fondlers, Seventh-day Tree Worshippers and Wicca can go do their own thing when there is a compulsory church parade, as for the rest of us, we ALL go to Church with the Christians, even if it's just to join in the sing-song. Last time I was in a church and in uniform, my Sikh corporal [not a Christian, note] was on one side of me, and Mo Khan, definitely not a Christian, was on the other. The guy we were commemorating must have been somewhere laffing his socks off to see us there.

 

[tac]

Fighting disease, hunger and the weather effectively has won most battles over the last 4000 years or so.
Field artillery is nice too.

'Artillery Lends Dignity to what would otherwise be a common brawl'.

A. Gunner.