WARNING - WASHINGTON STATE PATROL SENDS LETTER TO ALL FFLS TO REPORT ALL AR15 SALES

[RallySoob]

Here's the Seattle GRE take on this:


WSP jars gun dealers, sets off firestorm, ATF ‘not consulted'

A detective with the Washington State Patrol ignited a firestorm yesterday when licensed gun dealers across the Evergreen State received a letter asking for documents listing sales of any AR-15 rifle over the past nine months, along with the names and personal information of people who bought those guns.

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wow... Either one really dumb detective or ATF is playing really dumb.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Another fine job Mr. Workman. This will be interesting to watch.

Here's the Seattle GRE take on this:


WSP jars gun dealers, sets off firestorm, ATF ‘not consulted’

A detective with the Washington State Patrol ignited a firestorm yesterday when licensed gun dealers across the Evergreen State received a letter asking for documents listing sales of any AR-15 rifle over the past nine months, along with the names and personal information of people who bought those guns.

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[VW_Factor]

I saw lots of the word "Please" used on that page...

Thats what I was thinking myself. Trying to fool some dealers it looks like.

 

[trainsktg]

Here's the Seattle GRE take on this:


WSP jars gun dealers, sets off firestorm, ATF &#8216;not consulted'

A detective with the Washington State Patrol ignited a firestorm yesterday when licensed gun dealers across the Evergreen State received a letter asking for documents listing sales of any AR-15 rifle over the past nine months, along with the names and personal information of people who bought those guns.

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Any bets that that rifle is nowhere near WA State anymore...?

I'll re-ask what was already asked. Why was a FA firearm lying around in the back seat of a beat cop's patrol car.

Keith

 

[MA Duce]

wow... Either one really dumb detective or ATF is playing really dumb.

Sadly.....as we have recently seen, the ATF doesn't have to PLAY dumb....

 

[LilBrave]

The LE6920 can be a FA gun, it may not be. It is sold both ways. A lot for Departments are getting away from FA. The gun was taken from the Trunk, not the back seat. This is what I was told.....

 

[pokerace]

haha go to xdmtalk.com then.... happens to me every post...It's like gun nerds anonymous over there

but I lay it down...

anonymous
That is the KEY word a round here....

 

[LilBrave]

What's do you think is going to happen when a couple of the In-State Wholesalers turn the list in to WSP and then the dealer doesn't comply..... and they now KNOW that the FFL has/had AR's that are not reported?

 

[marty8587]

If This was a legit request and it was mine, I would not throw that much info away regardless of polocies. You could potentially have an OSP keeping their own private files on gun owners. NO NO NO!!!

 

[pokerace]

To state the obvious they probably all ready have this info. at hand..Don't they do background checks??? How long do the keep the records???

 

[chris61182]

To state the obvious they probably all ready have this info. at hand..Don't they do background checks??? How long do the keep the records???

Oregon does it that way, we're 'special' like that. Washington dealers on the other hand get to deal with NICS directly.

 

[pokerace]

Oregon does it that way, we're 'special' like that. Washington dealers on the other hand get to deal with NICS directly.

Don't you have a waiting period in wa.?? If so why the NICS??

 

[chris61182]

Don't you have a waiting period in wa.?? If so why the NICS??

If what I've read here is correct that's for handguns, but being I'm an Oregon resident I'm not exactly up to date on buying handguns from across the river.

 

[Belial]

Also there is something fishy here, because any firearm that was reported stolen would come up as such when they did a check, or during the NICS check during the sale. (unless of course it wasn't reported stolen until long after the fact)

With all do respect this is not true in the state of Washington. There is not a "check" or any information of a rifle transaction through NICS on this side of the river. FFL's call NICS directly and give no make, model, serial number to them whatsover. They just give background information for the buyer and what type of firearm.

 

[zeezee]

From an online newsletter I receive; "Earlier this week most, if not all, firearms dealers in Washington received a letter from the Washington State Patrol asking for data on ALL AR-15s (and clones) and AR-15 lower receivers sold or purchased by the dealers over the past nine months. The information sought was reportedly requested pursuant to an investigation of a stolen AR-15.

Apparently the ATF (who has jurisdiction over tracing stolen firearms) was not consulted by the WSP before they initiated their query. It would appear the WSP request FAR EXCEEDED their authority to seek such information. It typically would take a subpoena to gain access to such a broad sweep of transaction records. And that would have to be signed by a judge, after presentation of sufficient probable cause.

It is my understanding most dealers politely declined to comply, as was their right. The Bellevue-based Second Amendment Foundation jumped right into this issue. Meanwhile, in addition to ATF asking questions (of the WSP), several state legislators want to know what's going on.

BATFE has broad legal authority to examine firearm dealers' records. Local law enforcement has much more limited authority in cases like this. I suspect this was simple overreach by an over-zealous and perhaps inexperienced WSP detective. At least I hope that's what it was. Eternal vigilance remains the price of liberty!"
ZZ

 

[deen_ad]

With all do respect this is not true in the state of Washington. There is not a "check" or any information of a rifle transaction through NICS on this side of the river. FFL's call NICS directly and give no make, model, serial number to them whatsover. They just give background information for the buyer and what type of firearm.

Every NIC's check that I have had done on me includes the make, model and serial number of the weapon. Both in OR and WA.

8 US Presidents have been NRA members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!!

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The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
Arms Collectors of South West Washington member

 

[viperjody]

You are greatly mistaken... this information is never provided to NICS. The FFL will only record in the form 4473 for his records ONLY

Every NIC's check that I have had done on me includes the make, model and serial number of the weapon. Both in OR and WA.

8 US Presidents have been NRA members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
Arms Collectors of South West Washington member

 

[rdb241]

A hello everybody....the letter is asking for the shops assistance, but is NOT required to comply. The detective has some work to do and wants the guns shops to do all the track work. Is the AR still missing? Or has it been confiscated and the WSP is trying to track it's history? Why ALL sales between the two dates?

 

[Belial]

You are greatly mistaken... this information is never provided to NICS. The FFL will only record in the form 4473 for his records ONLY

ETA That information on the 4473 is obtainable to the ATF upon request from them to the FFL, but they only do this if they are running a trace on a paticular firearm...

If it was a handgun in Washington there would be information available to WSP through local LEO or DOL becasue of the backdoor handgun registration that we have in here. (AKA Handgun Application Form) That is a whole different story though...

 

[LilBrave]

Correct - There is no record with DOL for Longrifle Sales, just Handguns. NICS also is not suppose to keep records for sales and items but I can tell that is not the case. During our Audit by ATF they had Names and NICS's Numbers going back 18 Months and they checked this information against my hard copys ( 4473's )