Wages.

HaveGun · Dec 3, 2020

Was checking out some area job opportunities and I saw a posting for a fuel truck driver for a regional fuel distributor. Required Class B CDL with tanker and hazmat endorsements. Back in college in `98 or so, I worked for Ferrellgas Inc. doing the exact job, but with propane rather than heating oil. It was a good job and I enjoyed it. Miserable in the winter with having to trudge through snow and frequent chaining up of vehicles, though.

Back then, I made $12 an hour. 22 years ago, that wasn't too bad.

The current pay for the same job? $16 an hour.

I was shocked that in 22 years, the wage being paid for a fairly difficult job that requires specialized licensing only went up $4 an hour. In 1998, I was renting a two-bedroom duplex in the same town for $350 a month. My daughter was just renting a 2-bedroom duplex in the same town and had to pay $800 a month. Pretty sure all other living costs have doubled in 20 years as well, yet wages have not kept up, in this instance.

I wonder if this is just restricted to this area, which has historically had depressed wages due to the area colleges, or if it is reflected nationwide.

It's tough making it at my age on a single income at less than $20 an hour.

NW Backpacker · Dec 3, 2020

HaveGun said:
I wonder if this is just restricted to this area, which has historically had depressed wages due to the area colleges, or if it is reflected nationwide.

It's tough making it at my age on a single income at less than $20 an hour.

Probably nationwide. Open borders have consequences.

jblake00 · Dec 4, 2020

The wages haven't gone up much, but what about the benefits? Healthcare alone has risen quite a bit taking most if not a lot of what should have been hourly wage increases. What did healthcare cost back in 1998 vs today?

Alexx1401 · Dec 4, 2020

That is strange. Pay for that job over on this side of the state is MUCH higher for that. One guy I used to work with went and got his CDL due to the demand for drivers. His first gig was just needing the CDL without the other endorsements. His starting pay was over $20. He was looking at going with a Propane delivery just driving a Bobtail. That was over $25 to start and they were begging for people. The biggest problem they are having is WA and the legal pot. Since you still have to pee clean here.
Now since virtually all the people lined up to believe this hoax and watch as many were thrown out of work I have to guess a LOT of people must have gotten a CDL if they have a glut there.
Still seems very strange as Min wage here in WA went to $13.50 I think now.

Ura-Ki · Dec 4, 2020

I noticed a lot of driving jobs that require a CDL with HAZMAT don't pay that well, usually just above minimum wage! This is BAD, and with all the hoops and training and licencing requirements, trucking has really suffered!
Then you add in, shippers that treat drivers like sh!t, demand they run past their hours, set impossible dates and times for deliveries, set times for dock loading/unloading that force a driver to have to wait hours and hours, then force the driver to pay a lumper to load/unload his trailer! Sh!try truck stops, sh!try rest stops, near zero parking, steep fines for parking, and other nasty things! Nobody in their right mind would want to get into trucking!

When I was running the big water tenders, I had the D.O.T. all over me, and the truck cops were always harassing me, and different states had different rules for where I had to go and where I could get water! I made very good money, but the hours, the risks, and the expenses of running those trucks almost wasn't worth it! Add in that I had to answer to the B.L.M. or U.S. F.S, or any number of counties management teams, and often one would pull rank on the other, and the ever present contract disputes over who was paying me for my services! Yea, I pulled the plug and didn't look back!

I can make $80k+ per year working on the mountains running a snow groomer, and over $100k running a winch cat, and I get to board any and all the runs before anyone else, nothing like a fresh laid pisten on fresh powder at first light! It's a great job if you like to work alone with little outside contact, but the hours are kinda funky, mostly grave yard, and depending on the resort, you work 2 to 3 weeks on, and 1 week off, and you may only work 3 to 5 months, or up to 7 months if it's a really great year! You also have to live on site, or you have to commute, which can be fun and a challenge in it's self!

loadzz · Dec 6, 2020

NW Backpacker said:
Probably nationwide. Open borders have consequences.

Curious as to how you link the largely unskilled agricultural and landscape employed migrant population to the decline in real wage gain among certified truckers.

Ura-Ki · Dec 6, 2020

loadzz said:
Curious as to how you link the largely unskilled agricultural and landscape employed migrant population to the decline in real wage gain among certified truckers.

Easy, the un-skilled "Labor" pool has expanded into trucking! Employers love that they can pay less and run old equipment longer, and they can replace those drivers much easier!

loadzz · Dec 6, 2020

Ura-Ki said:
Easy, the un-skilled "Labor" pool has expanded into trucking! Employers love that they can pay less and run old equipment longer, and they can replace those drivers much easier!

So the unskilled laborers became skilled laborers and it's their fault that trucking companies are shorting both them and legal residents despite the growth of the economy and the GDP in the last two and a half decades?

Ura-Ki · Dec 6, 2020

It has made the wages lower for experienced drivers, lowered the skill levels, and all that goes with it! Mean while, the industry as a whole is more stagnant!

sobo · Dec 6, 2020

I'm smellin' that same smell again...

CoastRange57 · Dec 6, 2020

Regional and sector differences. If you are going over the road for any of the larger carriers, they will put anybody in the cab and run them until they quit, wreck a truck or kill somebody.

Localized trucking can be different. Some of the local aggregate companies are paying $ 26 an hour and getting good drivers. I talked with one of the owners and he had just had it with trying to keep grown babies working and not tearing his trucks up. He started paying those wages, hired an HR company to develop the compensation packages, hiring protocols and employee management. He also raised his prices on his material to cover that and give him a suitable profit. If you can make a profit and ROI, then just sell it all out, invest it at lower risk and sit back. His rock is higher priced, but it really does not matter since he can get the rock out to you and not have a bunch of excuses and delays because his drivers are brain dead.

The companies that are currently so focused on lower wages are usually poorly managed, they have plenty of low grade employees behind the revolving doors. Use up and discard them, the HR program of the year.

Disclaimer: I owned 3 commercial truck flatbeds and 2 truck and transfers back in the 2006 to 2010 time frame. My drivers were all making $ 50,000 a year then and worth every penny.

Hop Sing · Dec 6, 2020

sobo said:
I'm smellin' that same smell again...

It's Sunday - time for new underwear.

Clean socks too, if you have any.

sobo · Dec 6, 2020

Hop Sing said:
It's Sunday - time for new underwear. Clean socks too, if you have any.

I change shorts on Saturday, before I go out croozin' for the evening.
Socks on Monday, since I need them for Sunday morning if my Saturday night crooz didn't net a catch... :s0140:

Hop Sing · Dec 6, 2020

sobo said:
I change shorts on Saturday, before I go out croozin' for the evening.
Socks on Monday, since I need them for Sunday morning if my Saturday night crooz didn't net a catch...

LULZ!!!!

CamoDeafie · Dec 6, 2020

Its not just trucking. Manufacturing also have kept wages relatively depressed/stable. Back in 2002, I was told that if I worked for GM after finishing my associates in Machining Technology, I would start at $25/hour, but looking at what fresh outta machining program students can expect to earn at GM now.. not that much higher. Part of the blame lays on the trade unions for agreeing to keep wages the same in exchange for keeping their jobs, and a lot of people lost jobs anyhow

Alexx1401 · Dec 6, 2020

CamoDeafie said:
Its not just trucking. Manufacturing also have kept wages relatively depressed/stable. Back in 2002, I was told that if I worked for GM after finishing my associates in Machining Technology, I would start at $25/hour, but looking at what fresh outta machining program students can expect to earn at GM now.. not that much higher. Part of the blame lays on the trade unions for agreeing to keep wages the same in exchange for keeping their jobs, and a lot of people lost jobs anyhow

I spent a LOT of time in the Manufacturing field. Always made a good living but, to stay at the top of the pay scale meant I had to constantly be willing to change. Most I worked with over the decades wanted to come in, learn how to do one thing, stick with that for several decades and retire. Sadly those days are all but gone. People can still do this but not if they want to make good money. I kind of stumbled into working in health care a decade back. Again first thing that was plain to see is you could make pretty much as much as you wanted. A LOT of the people I work with must be in what is considered the "1%". For them it meant they wanted to work for it. One of them I run into a lot is much younger than me, is making as much as many big CEO's. She was a single mom, barely finished high School, and decided she wanted to do better. So she got her RN, then went back while working and got an MA in Nursing. Then while working got another 5 year Degree. Before her fist child was out of high school the Mom was now making what most would call big money. The woman is still shockingly "down to earth" in part due to her past but, she sure shows it's up to the person to decide what they want out of life. Sadly of course we have raised a few generations who want to do nothing and make big money to do it. :s0092:

made in china · Dec 6, 2020

I've always been lucky to have been employed in well paying jobs since I left high school.
I'm even luckier to have a very frugal wife.
My wife and I currently get paid very well, even during this pandemic.

However, we definitely are seeing some very troubling trends that are just going to make it tougher for so many people, while eroding our own financial buffer. And I think post-'rona it will be even worse, I think housing costs are going to skyrocket soon.
We've seen many of our bills increase at 10-14% increments every year for the past 4-5 years, while our combined income has barely done 2% increases.
Car insurance.
Vehicle registration (for many of us here it went up 30-fold in 2015!)
Property tax
Cost of living

The governments have been very tight-lipped about 2021 budgets, I have some serious concerns about upcoming property taxes and inflation for the next few years.

JamesG · Dec 6, 2020

In the Tacoma area it is hard to find Hazmat drivers for less than $25hr.

Thanks

Mark W. · Dec 7, 2020

WOW I'm from a different world of driving I guess I drive Dump Truck and Pup trailer for a Paving and site development co. As driving jobs go its technically most OTR drivers such at dump trucking and when you have to do it with a 50,000 trailer behind you they really suck. We run 20 dump trucks and we in a typical year will have 2-3 new people (we also add about a truck a year) and virtually none of them come to us without at least solo dump truck experience I've had the joy of check riding with a couple guys that came from OTR driving and on simple easy flat straight roads they were ok. Some where where they have to back a trailer up a hill around a corner and hit the hopper on the paving machine without stopping its momentum for more then a couple inches ROFLMAO. We pay good money $27 an hour with what most would call full beanies The co pays emp health we have profit share, a 401K and can up buy Dental, Vision, Aflac, we have life insurance etc.

Most of our drivers come from other companies doing similar stuff.

Now add in off road driving experience like foot deep mud, Delivery driver experience knowing if I can get my dump truck around those trees and past the garage while speading gravel exactly 2" thick LOL, How to drive mountain pass in the winter on snow and ICE and just to make it fun we are the guys that build and maintain forest service roads so fun stuff like backing up steep single lane roads for a mile or racing up and down single lane roads while using the CB to tell where the other 10 truck on the same single lane short sight line road are as they come up at you or you down at them. And then add in the construction site experience how to spread gravel back around survey hubs and knowing how to work with all the various other equipment from hopper loaders front end loaders excavators from tiny power shovels to HUGE CAT excavators that can load a dump truck in 2-3 scoops. And for real ful you can come out with me some night on I5 while we pave with the OTR trucks in the next lane screaming by at 60mph while we back up in the dark drop our trailers and other fun stuff.

No Haz Mat though we do haul semi hazardous materials to land fills quite often. Like I did a month ago hauling off burned up houses.

I work about 8 months out of the year an average week is 55 hours some run to 60 40 months and I retire. Been at it 17 years so far. Kids need not apply.