Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Seattle sees fallout from $15 min wage

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by clearconscience, Jul 22, 2015.

  1. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,551
    Likes Received:
    7,009
    Don H likes this.
  2. Barefoot African

    Barefoot African Saint Helens Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    111
    And a bosses job is to say no, and if they don't show, replace them.
     
    Caveman Jim and Slobray like this.
  3. jim97701

    jim97701 Bend Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    546
    Likes Received:
    603
    I've been at the same job for 27 years, showing up every day and doing the job that is expected of my position. I work for a major door and window manufacturer and currently am a CNC operator and make just under $17.00 per hour. I feel I've paid my dues and earned my wage such as it is and should not feel bad about making a fairly secure living. My wife likewise has been at her place of employment for almost 30 years and worked her way up from a clerk/cashier to Being a Pharmacy Tech. and makes over $17.00 per hour. It pizzes me off that people that work at do nothing jobs that put forth almost no effort to get ahead feel that they are entitled to make the same wages that we have busted our azz for!!. It pizzes me off even further that when given the wage that they neither deserve nor earned and they are going to have to pry their lips off the Government teet they cut back their hours so as to continue freeloading off of my taxes that I pay working every friggin day!! and to top it off I get to pay more for crap to cover their new found wages!!. This system is broken and needs to be fixed BIG TIME!!!!!.:mad::mad::mad:
     
  4. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,551
    Likes Received:
    7,009
    Amen Jim.

    It sets up a society that has no appreciation for hard and working your way up. Just sit at the bottom and being happy with the bare minimum.
    It gives people at the basic, bottom level jobs no incentive to learn new skills and progress in life.
    But then again that's the motto of pot heads, and they can't afford their stinky green buds on $9/hr
     
  5. raftman

    raftman Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,060
    Likes Received:
    249
    While I disagree with the "fight for 15" crowd, this article is actually a fairly poor one. It contains little if any hard data and presents primarily anecdotal evidence for its main point.

    That said, of course giving $15/hr for jobs requiring virtually no skills or education is a lousy idea. Low skills and low education = a low wage. But I'd be curious to see and wish there were data on what proportion of people out there working these low-end jobs are having a difficult time primaily because of decisions they've made. Anecdotally, I certainly know people that had everything it took to get an education and instead wound up working at a fast food joint at age 30 or some such thing. Which in and of itself may not be the worst thing but for example one person I'm thinking of smokes and drinks heavily (among other recreational drugs) and then blames the system because she can't afford afford to live in a nice part of town and without a roommate. Or another who has 3 children from 3 different men and blames the state for not doing enough for her. But like I said, I wish good info existed on how typical these examples really are.
     
    fathalpert likes this.
  6. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    7,531
    Likes Received:
    10,474
    As long as people of a certain type have enough to be able to lay around watching tv while self medicating with weed, drink, ect, they will scream and fight to keep that minimum lifestyle. If that's what you call a life or a style! $15 per hour isn't even close to what it would take to get them moving. Rome was like this once!:(
     
  7. misterarman

    misterarman Vancouver,Wa. USA Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    1,544
    In my opinion we are missing the point on the $15/hr wage.

    It is not to bring the losers with their hand out up, it is to bring down the people who have worked their way up down.
    I have been with my company 25 years and have improved my skill set multiple times to move up.
    I did not take this job for the money alone because 25 years ago starting out it sucked. I took it for an incredibly better medical benefit package. Now there's a concept, get a job with health care.

    Without earning something no one knows it's value and will not appreciate it and use it wisely. They will just want more when that doesn't fix the problem. Because the problem is not money, it is attitude.

    I live in E. Vancouver and 3 weeks ago Ty whoever who is running for city council knocked on our door. He was running down our sidewalk to get away from my questions. When asked about 15 his response was won't your company just give you more to make up for it? So I guess if everybody gets more it will make it better? We will need a wheelbarrow to haul our money around because it will be worthless. And this moron wants to lead our city?

    All 15 will do is make our money worthless and I see it as the plan to turn us all into a peasant/working/slave class. The gap between the haves and the have nots will widen greatly.

    Add that in with high density housing, mass transit [which is not about the environment, it is about taking our cars and independence away], plus taking our guns away we will sure be easy to control.
     
    spookshack, BrentN, Stomper and 8 others like this.
  8. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,192
    Likes Received:
    4,380
    cock1.jpg
     
  9. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    8,469
    Likes Received:
    19,444
    What I don't get is the establishment of some arbitrary number that supposedly is a solution to a problem. But really, how can you set a number and claim anything? I understand they're looking at the definition of the 'poverty' level and figuring what it would take, hourly to rise above that point. But that's based on the assumption of a 40 hour work week. Many of these jobs don't give 40 hours a week because that opens the door for paying for other things like healthcare, forced paid time off, etc. We've already seen cuts in hours across the country because of the mandates of health-care for full time employees. Many have now found themselves part time employees just so their company can stay in business.

    I worked for minimum wage for several years in my early working career. I was happy to get what I got and I worked my butt off to move up and earn more. Just working at McD's back in high school, I moved up in a year and a half to a leadership position making double what I was when I started - still not a huge amount, but doubling my take home pay in that time was a big deal. All I did was show up on time, tried to do my job well, had a decent attitude, and took opportunities to do more than I was asked. The reward was higher wages and more responsibility. It also meant I got more hours and my job was more secure. The next job after that was just above minimum wage, but I repeated the same process there. And so it has gone for my entire career. I'm in a pretty darn well paying job now with good benefits, but it took sacrifice (time, extra education, long hours, poor conditions, more time, sacrifice of time with friends and, at times, poor treatment) to get where I am today. And I'll say I'm pretty darn happy and thankful to be here.

    I don't buy the argument that people have no choice but to work these jobs to support an entire family. I watched almost everyone I knew back then work their way out of those jobs and on to something better. I've known many more since then who have done the same. Very few ever planned to make a career out of it, and of those that did, most went on to high level management and regional management positions that paid very well.

    No one gave me handouts when I was struggling to pay for an apartment, food and a vehicle to get to work. I've never, not once, taken government assistance for anything, and I'm proud of that. I don't decry those that truly need that assistance, and I wouldn't hesitate to use it in an emergency. But I've talked to far too many people that think that working a little harder to step up is just too hard. They don't want to get up earlier or go to bed later. They don't want to work harder when just getting by will do. They don't want to put the time in to get more education because that cuts into their fun time. And while I know that some folks simply don't have the ability to do those things because of circumstances, I find that far too many claim they can't, but in reality, they just don't want to.

    I can't support the higher minimum wage, at least at those levels. People should have a reason for working hard to get out of those jobs, and gaining some satisfaction from doing so. By throwing more and more money at unskilled labor forces, we're simply giving them less reason to even try.
     
  10. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,873
    Likes Received:
    5,770
    My wife just finished her BS in Nursing. Glad she makes a little over $15/hr.

    That's beside the point.

    10 years ago I remember having a discussion with a "friend" at the time. He and his fiance (and son) were at our house talking about the costs of living and all that jazz. My wife was an CNA, I was a contractor for a cable company getting paid by the piece. Together my wife and I were busting our asses to keep us afloat. I think it was something like I made about $650/week (gross) and she was making 1/2 that. I worked my bubblegum off to ensure that I made the most in every hour I could.

    The point: In our discussions with this friend (whom I have lost contact with intentionally), he was bragging about how he knew the minimum amount of hours he had to work at his place of employment to ensure that he would collect maximum benefits from the state. This isn't new knowledge gents. This has been going on for quite some time around this nation. I happened to hear it first hand and witness this.

    Interesting how somebody can work minimum wage at that time, receive $500/month in food stamps and get help as well on their housing totalling 800-1000/month while they worked "just enough" to keep them in the zone.

    Sickens me. In 12 years of marriage my wife and I were on assistance for TWO months, totalling a whopping $250 (yup, even at our lowest we made right at the top of their scale). Guess it depends who you believe is your provider, you pick who your g/God is.
     
  11. 40calruler

    40calruler Lake Oswego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,900
    Likes Received:
    1,335
    You just described my exact feelings on people these days. I started at 16 as a cook in a restaurant. Went from that to manager by 18 and regional director of operations in charge of 100 restaurants by 22.

    People now seem to think that they should just get a promotion because they exist. I had to work on most of my days off and sleep 3-4 hours most nights to move up. I was hungry and wanted it. When I made minimum wage I kept my head down and mouth shut and did what I could. I got noticed and moved up....Funny how working hard gets you the money you want.

    So many people think that just because they want they should get. I think the current generation of late teens to mid twenties have a ridiculously entitled attitude for the most part. When I am looking for a low level manager I go through a number of people as even with higher pay "it is just too hard" to have to answer all the employees questions when I am not around.

    I remember my old boss taking off for a month at a time without concern because he knew I was there. I had it handled. These entitled little punks make me want to slap them around. Too bad even that is not allowed!
     
    Stomper, jim97701, Dyjital and 2 others like this.
  12. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    8,469
    Likes Received:
    19,444
    Well said .40 cal. I forgot to mention that there was a year I was working 2 jobs, opening at McD's and closing at Fred Meyer, while attending school at the local community college during the day. I worked mornings, nights, weekends and pretty much every holiday (except Christmas, since the companies were closed on that day). But what I had, what I earned, was mine. No one handed it to me. I was proud of what I earned, even when it wasn't much. And, quite honestly, earning a lower wage encouraged me to improve myself, to find something better.

    My parents taught me that, and they lived it right in front of me. I'm trying to do the same for my daughter now. I don't want her growing up thinking the world owes her anything. I just want her to know the value, and the reward, of hard work and perseverance.
     
    Stomper, jim97701, Tbucket and 2 others like this.
  13. 40calruler

    40calruler Lake Oswego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,900
    Likes Received:
    1,335
    Yep my kids will not be getting hand outs. My dad was a fireman and worked as many overtime shifts as he could and moved quickly up to a lieutenant which to me was awesome that my dad was in charge of a whole fire station.
    I had to watch him work holidays and insane hours to get there though so I knew it was not an easy task. Watching that taught me it is just what you do though. You work as hard as you can and keep moving forward. Sitting still and waiting for the handout does not register to me.

    There was a time when I wished my parents would buy me things since they did HAVE the money. I am so thankful they made me earn everything I have now that I am a bit older. My vehicles are mine. House is mine. Kids are mine...I think.

    I am pretty sure if more parents did what you do, my parents did, and what I try to do then the kids would stop growing up with their damn hands out like bums.
     
    Stomper, jim97701 and etrain16 like this.
  14. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,612
    Likes Received:
    3,567
    I hear they are now crying because they are making too much money and not getting the free handouts so they want to work less hours
     
    Caveman Jim and Stomper like this.
  15. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    6,246
    Likes Received:
    4,480
    Try to keep this on topic guys, it'll be removed if it gets too political :s0146:
     
  16. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,828
    Likes Received:
    6,266
    Well, if both adults make $15 then combined income is $60,000 a year. That would take away their free healthcare and rent susidies and their EBT cards so of course they don't want to give up the free stuff. FSA is alive and well in Seattle.:D
     
    Dyjital likes this.
  17. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,828
    Likes Received:
    6,266
    It's not about guns anyway so it will be removed.. Site is running really good today, good job on that.
     
  18. 40calruler

    40calruler Lake Oswego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,900
    Likes Received:
    1,335
    On topic of guns....I really do not like the thought of the ignorant bare minimum knowledge LGS clerks making what took me a lot of hard work to make.
    I may make more now but it took some serious effort to make 15 an hour for me. 60k combined for fast food and gun store employees??!! That is insanity to me. It is like saying "hey you can continue being the idiot you are and not better yourself but the rest of us will take care of you". Oh and by the way can you at least learn a bit more about guns now that you make a living wage? "NOPE".....OK well you are welcome for your non earned nice salary.
     
  19. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,828
    Likes Received:
    6,266
    I don't think people really understood what the $15 mandated by the government was about. They were trying to get companies to pay more so the workers would pay taxes and their own benefits. Double win for the government but big lose for employers to have to pay welfare.
     
    Slobray likes this.
  20. 40calruler

    40calruler Lake Oswego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,900
    Likes Received:
    1,335
    Right. I huge loss for people that need a certain number of people. Some of the jobs I hire for are 10 bucks an hour. They do not require anything more than speaking English and ability to use a broom and dustpan.

    If I have to pay those folks 15 an hour my 22% labor rate shoots up to 30% easily or more. That is considering I would have to have less employees and have my maintenance staff do clean up that currently the broom pushers do.

    I cannot see not losing a lot of time and energy by that and what is better for the economy? 10 people at 10$ an hour or 6 at 15? All it would do for me is make me cut my staff to stay into a reasonable profit and loss and not lose my job for a crazy labor percentage. At least 4 people lose their job no matter what with me. As well as have my expectations of the workload go way up. I will not pay 15 for folks to push brooms. They will need to have maintenance or security experience to apply. That cuts out a lot of folks that are supposedly the reason for the higher wage proposal.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.