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Yup. Carry something that you can actually use and be effective with."I just got a jet ski, and I like to fanaticize about rescuing a puppy swept out to sea with it," is how this kind of thread topic reads to me.
If I was outside of a school with a shooting going on and I had a CCW, there is NO WAY I would go back to the car for a different gun. Time is life - know how to use what you have.
Someone asked me about lengths:Truck guns don't have to be rifles. Any of mine stay in the single-pull-to-open pack on the seat next to me or in arms reach. They never are left in the car unattended. It takes just a second to throw the stealth sling pack over your shoulder and take it with you. The 10.5" .223 brn-180 shown below Fe can be fired with stock folded which can be handy in a vehicle and if needed you can deploy stock. Also numerous PCCs can be truck guns.
Whether confronted by a psycho while you are in the car (of which there are numerous reports in Pdx daily). A group of thugs attacking you (again happens a lot in Portland), armed carjackings (I have witnessed three attempted armed car jackings here), rioters, antifa, and other situations a handy truck gun can be a much better option than just a pistol. Imo if you do it right they take about the same time to deploy as your edc.
Small PCCs or whatever you want to call them examples:
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It's crazy to me that some people don't understand this. I mean i get it, If it were my kid in that school I'd run in there with my rifle too but I'd fully expect to be shot by somebody or police and that risk would be fully worth taking if it meant stopping harm from being done unto my kid.They can think different and again you can want to go in there and save the day but expect to be shot..... that's like saying what if it was your kid drowning in an icy river. yeah go jump right in, but expect to drown as well. I'm not trying to be insensitive here, I get it you want to go save the day , but reality is reality expect to get shot.
Disagree. PDW weapon, Glock with USW, or bufferless 556 pistol with folding stock can be used in a huge array of scenarios, whether in vehicle or outside of it. Easy to conceal, not too hard to carry, and much more effective than standard pistol.I'm all for having a long gun or PDW available when necessary, but I don't see deploying it in response to an active shooter as a good idea. While there have been active shooters stopped by civilians responding with rifles (Sutherland Springs was one, IIRC), as many others have opined already a person with a long gun is most likely going to be misidentified as a bad guy. Hypothetically I guess you could have it in a rapid deployment bag (Vertx, 5.11, etc) and carry it with you into the threat environment, but at some point the gun would come out, and you have no way of knowing if cops are also in the building or not. If they are, you're probably gonna get dropped.
I think it would be better to respond with an EDC pistol because you can keep it concealed until you absolutely have to engage the threat, and you can respond immediately instead of wasting time running back to your vehicle to get your gun. There is obviously still a risk of misidentification but far less so than with a long gun.
I view the truck gun or backpack gun as strictly a Get Home weapon, one only to be deployed in true SHTF / civil unrest situations. If I had a trunk vault or similarly secure locking container that was disguised from view outside the car and bolted to the frame so thieves couldn't walk away with it, I might consider keeping a long gun in my vehicle. Other than that, probably not.
If you're considering having a truck gun or backpack gun, I strongly recommend checking out The Backpack Gun Project. Chris Baker from LuckyGunner does a fantastic job of summarizing the extremely limited circumstances in which one could be useful. The YouTube video is linked below, as is the article / transcript for those who prefer to read.
The Backpack Gun Project - Lucky Gunner Lounge
Chris explores the concept of a backpack gun, what it's good for and what you consider if you're exploring one yourself.www.luckygunner.com
Not saying those types of weapons aren't useful - they are. But the OP is about responding to an active shooter with a long gun. Just saying if an incident is taking place and someone sees you running around with an MP5, odds are they're gonna think you're the shooter.Disagree. PDW weapon, Glock with USW, or bufferless 556 pistol with folding stock can be used in a huge array of scenarios, whether in vehicle or outside of it. Easy to conceal, not too hard to carry, and much more effective than standard pistol.
I think the backpack in that video for casual, everyday, or truck gun use is a much worse option than sling pack. With a sling pack, in one motion using your weak hand you can bring pack from your back to in front of you, open bag completely and then grab pistol grip with your strong hand. It takes close to the same time as drawing from holster.
Also a sling pack you can lay on seat or next to seat on floor and it functions as concealment and a scabbard. Also it takes just a second to throw it on as you leave the car. If it's not tactical looking it is basically invisible. I just walked the dog a few hours ago with my sling pack on with mp5k clone and 5 mags. Walked past numerous neighbors, people jogging, walking, walking dogs etc. Just looks like a nothing bag.
Also looks to me like that pistol in the video has a buffer. I would not do that. Buffer add tons of length for no reason. A bufferless 556 gun with folding stock is a much better option Imo. Much smaller. Pdw or pcc is another option.
Also you can carry one of these Glocks with USW in a holster or even in the inside pocket of a standard fleece or on sling or whatever. Not much bigger or bulkier than the pistol alone but massively extends range and accuracy.
Any of those guns I would feel confident going into many situations with and they are also very concealable and fairly easy to carry. Extremely easy to stow and access in vehicle.
Brn-180 556 10.5"
Mp5k
Glock 9mm or 10mm in b&t usw brace
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Just put the seat down for them.Just cause I use a stall doesn't mean I sit down!! Hahaha.
All the other guys in the restroom probably think less of me. I don't care. Haha.
By having it of center slightly. I've carried two G19s (one LH and one RH) and a spare mag in the middle at 12 o'clock AIWB with shorts and T-shirt down in CA during summer and could still pee standing up.theres no way even the best holster this is comfortable to carry EDC, especially in summer. How does one even use a urinal BTW?
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I've worn my Dale Fricke AA for 48 hours straight, including driving and sleeping with it on, it was no problem.AIWB is superior to all other ways but its just not comfortable, Ive never got over that part. I guess its an individual thing.
Using a bufferless pistol AR compared to a long buffered AR rifle loses some energy but not that much (depending on barrel length). For example 12.5" sig virtus = 13% loss of energy compared to 16" AR. But the form factor and overall size of the gun is much smaller than trying to stow or conceal a rifle. Similarly a 10.5% brn-180 is very small but only loses 22% of energy compared to regular AR. Where the losses get huge is 7.5" AR pistol at almost 40%. Either the 12.5" or 10.5" bufferless can be carried in a sling pack, or on a sling under coat etc. meaning you don't have to leave it in the vehicle, and can be concealed if needed.Thanks for the responses. I'm the OP, and I've really resisted responding because the responses have started drifting into implying I'm some misguided idiot fantasizing about playing hero.
Oh boy. Sigh. I've tried to outline in clear, no uncertain terms two aspects of the inquiry:
I do appreciate the great callouts from most posters, throughout. Having been held up at gunpoint before, I'm the first to tell you that pulling a gun out in self defense is not always the best option. I was not carrying, but even if I were, it wouldn't have made a difference - or been prudent in that case. Story for another day.
- focus on the legality of the use of a rifle in public, assuming sound tactics
- to highlight that this is a thought experiment that tests boundary scenarios (in my follow-up post)
What this thread did articulate for me, was the risks of self-defense anywhere except outside the home - regardless of firearm. And even more so the rifle. It reinforces - for me - that in an urban environment, concealed carry pistol is the preferable, but still last, resort. But the use of a rifle is fraught with even more tradeoffs.
Objectively, this goes against a lot of the marketing and rhetoric of the industry, where there's an inordinate amount of emphasis, resources, and attention on the rifle as a self-defense weapon out in the open urban environment. It just seems like the usage of a rifle far more drawbacks, from misidentification to theft of firearm stored in car, in excess of the benefits in public or out-in-the-open situations.
Whatever your takeaway, I do appreciate the conversation and input from all of ya'll.
Thanks for posting the topic - it's a good conversation to have. Agreed, there is a lot of "tacticool" marketing out there by major manufacturers, and there are lots of drawbacks to consider if storing one in a vehicle, particularly in urban environments where police response times to shootings is generally fast.Thanks for the responses. I'm the OP, and I've really resisted responding because the responses have started drifting into implying I'm some misguided idiot fantasizing about playing hero.
Oh boy. Sigh. I've tried to outline in clear, no uncertain terms two aspects of the inquiry:
I do appreciate the great callouts from most posters, throughout. Having been held up at gunpoint before, I'm the first to tell you that pulling a gun out in self defense is not always the best option. I was not carrying, but even if I were, it wouldn't have made a difference - or been prudent in that case. Story for another day.
- focus on the legality of the use of a rifle in public, assuming sound tactics
- to highlight that this is a thought experiment that tests boundary scenarios (in my follow-up post)
What this thread did articulate for me, was the risks of self-defense anywhere except outside the home - regardless of firearm. And even more so the rifle. It reinforces - for me - that in an urban environment, concealed carry pistol is the preferable, but still last, resort. But the use of a rifle is fraught with even more tradeoffs.
Objectively, this goes against a lot of the marketing and rhetoric of the industry, where there's an inordinate amount of emphasis, resources, and attention on the rifle as a self-defense weapon out in the open urban environment. It just seems like the usage of a rifle far more drawbacks, from misidentification to theft of firearm stored in car, in excess of the benefits in public or out-in-the-open situations.
Whatever your takeaway, I do appreciate the conversation and input from all of ya'll.
For short barrels with rifle cartridges, I prefer cartridges made for that purpose - e.g., 7.62x39 or .300 BOUsing a bufferless pistol AR compared to a long buffered AR rifle loses some energy but not that much (depending on barrel length). For example 12.5" sig virtus = 13% loss of energy compared to 16" AR. But the form factor and overall size of the gun is much smaller than trying to stow or conceal a rifle. Similarly a 10.5% brn-180 is very small but only loses 22% of energy compared to regular AR. Where the losses get huge is 7.5" AR pistol at almost 40%. Either the 12.5" or 10.5" bufferless can be carried in a sling pack, or on a sling under coat etc. meaning you don't have to leave it in the vehicle, and can be concealed if needed.
16" ar15 = 31.5" length and no loss in energy
12.5" sig virtus .223 (no buffer) = 22" length and 13% loss in energy
10.5" brn -180 .223 (no buffer) = 18" length
and 22% loss in energy
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