National Trump To Ban ‘Bump Stock’ Devices Used in Las Vegas Shooting

[MasterChief]

 

[etrain16]

And saying someone is a "hack" without supporting arguments doesn't impress me at all.

Look at Johnson's record as a politician and then look at Trumps.

Oh wait, Trump has almost no record and that which he has is nothing much to speak of.

No, saying someone is a hack is an opinion - no supporting evidence is required. In my opinion, he is a hack. He had little to nothing to offer in comparison to other options and he lacked any kind of serious support. He never had a chance, from the beginning. He was able to cobble together a smattering of support, but there was never a chance he would be a serious contender. My guy (Cruz) got knocked out in the primaries, but held on longer than most. And I still contend that Trump is far better than Hillary would have been - and I'd vote for him again if the election were done over.

 

[The Heretic]

As far as bumpstocks go "banning" them is low hanging fruit that no one is going to get their feathers too ruffled about and they barely register as far as being gun parts

Until you want to buy a trigger for an AR and the BATF has determined that since it is a lighter trigger it will increase the rate of fire and therefore it is a "machine gun" and you can't own it, much less buy it.

I don't think people are quite understanding the scope of this change; it isn't just about "bumpstocks", it is about any device that the BATF determines can or does increase the rate of fire of a firearm. These are the same people who determined that a shoestring was a machine gun.

Shoestring Machine Gun

 

[Quartermaster]

I realized yesterday that people who know nothing about guns will debate the features they're uncomfortable with. They think lower capacity magazines would give someone else time to tackle a shooter during a reload. Slower rate of fire means more time for people to flee, blah blah blah. Absolute nonsense, but they won't admit it. Ask them this: "What kind of gun would YOU feel comfortable with being attacked by?" The answer is simply "none," so why waste time debating the features of the firearm, and instead look at the issue of the shooter's motivation? You can't tell me that the people attacking the 2a will ever be satisfied with a featureless gun, so make them be honest for a change and pressure them to decide what it is they have a problem with.

 

[etrain16]

I realized yesterday that people who know nothing about guns will debate the features they're uncomfortable with. They think lower capacity magazines would give someone else time to tackle a shooter during a reload. Slower rate of fire means more time for people to flee, blah blah blah. Absolute nonsense, but they won't admit it. Ask them this: "What kind of gun would YOU feel comfortable with being attacked by?" The answer is simply "none," so why waste time debating the features of the firearm, and instead look at the issue of the shooter's motivation? You can't tell me that the people attacking the 2a will ever be satisfied with a featureless gun, so make them be honest for a change and pressure them to decide what it is they have a problem with.

Anyone who has taken defensive shooting courses know full well how quickly magazines can be changed. Problem is, get them to understand that and they'll change the argument to banning removable magazines. In fact, isn't that what they just did in CA?

 

[wired]

I realized yesterday that people who know nothing about guns will debate the features they're uncomfortable with. They think lower capacity magazines would give someone else time to tackle a shooter during a reload. Slower rate of fire means more time for people to flee, blah blah blah. Absolute nonsense, but they won't admit it. Ask them this: "What kind of gun would YOU feel comfortable with being attacked by?" The answer is simply "none," so why waste time debating the features of the firearm, and instead look at the issue of the shooter's motivation? You can't tell me that the people attacking the 2a will ever be satisfied with a featureless gun, so make them be honest for a change and pressure them to decide what it is they have a problem with.

This is all why the next "ban" won't be wasted on "features". It will be a semi auto ban that more than likely incorporates semi's into the NFA.

 

[The Heretic]

I use CMC triggers with a 3.5 lb pull. Milspec is typically 6.5. 3 lbs difference doesn't change rate of fire. It could be argued that under 3.0 lbs the recoil could initiate another trigger pull by accident. But they need to define their laws to that point or there's not really a good way to enforce it

A heavier trigger makes it harder to 'bump fire" a rifle. Do you really want the ATF to say how light your trigger can be? Do you want Congress to say that? After the 2018 elections? You are putting a lot of faith in the ATF and Congress and White House.

Me - I don't trust any of them any further than I can throw them, and I have a bad back so that means not at all - especially fat old Trump.

 

[HB of CJ]

Personal Rant ... Ignore That Man ....

Do we have a Constitutional Republic ... or do we not? What is it about the simple written word "Infringed" that creates such confusion? That word means what it means. We can no more Constitutionally restrict the Second Amendment then we can restrict the other Bill Of Rights.

Shall we restrict our freedom of speech? Some subjects OK, some verboten or restricted? Soap boxes on the side walk OK but making religious sermons in Church on Sunday non legal? Will we be be swamped with so many laws that the Freedom Of Speech dies a slow death?

What about worshiping your God in your own fashion? Or not believing in religion at all? Should those rights be slowly chipped away at? What happens when the speech and religion death troopers storm into a church and arrest the preacher at sub machine gun point? Or you?

It has already started with the Second Amendment. Where will it all end? History paints at time with a bright red brush. Nations are born. They grow. They thrive. Then they begin to decay. Then they fall. Not a pleasant process. Is it OUR TURN? I certainly hope not. Sad thoughts.

The Second Amendment ties everything together. And ... it is most certain NOT about hunting. The evil power hungry politicians understand this. What we need to do is elect fresh new Patriots who are NOT evil power grabbing monsters. We can turn this around. The question is shall we?

Rant Complete ...

 

[wired]

A heavier trigger makes it harder to 'bump fire" a rifle. Do you really want the ATF to say how light your trigger can be? Do you want Congress to say that? After the 2018 elections? You are putting a lot of faith in the ATF and Congress and White House.

Me - I don't trust any of them any further than I can throw them, and I have a bad back so that means not at all - especially fat old Trump.

Its the other way around. You want a heavy spring on the trigger to get "it" ( bumpstock, belt loop etc ) to work right. Too light and you dont get a good reset after firing. Thats why the rubber band trick helps.

 

[wired]

Until you want to buy a trigger for an AR and the BATF has determined that since it is a lighter trigger it will increase the rate of fire and therefore it is a "machine gun" and you can't own it, much less buy it.

I don't think people are quite understanding the scope of this change; it isn't just about "bumpstocks", it is about any device that the BATF determines can or does increase the rate of fire of a firearm. These are the same people who determined that a shoestring was a machine gun.

Shoestring Machine Gun

The shoestring made sense legally and in operation. It acted as an automatic trigger actuation device "tied" into the bolt carrier closing. In essence it was an auto sear when configured like that function not much different than a lightning link. The definition of a machinegun being more than one round fired per pull of the trigger. The shoestring moved the triggers pull point looping around the bolt carrier but you are pulling the trigger once to get multiple shots.

 

[Goosebrown]

The shoestring moved the triggers pull point looping around the bolt carrier but you are pulling the trigger once to get multiple shots.

Exactly. One pull of the trigger. The bump stock is a clever way around that that uses the letter of the law to violate the spirit of the law. Banning the bumpstock is not a bad thing, but telling the BATFE to do it is bad because they need to make regulation based on the LAW and the law is that a machine gun is multiple bullets with one pull of the trigger.

 

[The Heretic]

State Bans Popular AR-15 Accessory, Police Shocked After Only 4 People Comply

 

[wired]

State Bans Popular AR-15 Accessory, Police Shocked After Only 4 People Comply

"Not only does the former owner receive no compensation, but the local police department now has a new weapon to add to its increasingly militarized arsenal. And as The Free Thought Project has reported, police in the United States have killed 450 percent more Americans than the last four decades of mass shootings—combined."

<broken link removed>

 

[DuneHopper]

In a word " Dynamics, Trump is still popular? Why is he now more popular for what he did?
The NRA and Trump are victimized for not being tough on guns. So they pick Bumpfires after Dems yelled and screamed they were the Devils weapon of choice, so NRA and Trump say ok fine. What that did was pull some in seeing so called common sense for Dems and gave them something for people to believe in Trump from the opposition, sure some gun owners right now are pissed at the NRA and Trump for not doing their job to protect their rights but it wont change anything. Here in Oregon OFF fails every year to do anything, yet all thru Obama terms really helped OFF grown much bigger because when people are happy they don't donate when they are mad they do.( Thats how Cease Fire gained power) Yet people still throw money at OFF like they have saved every right we lost... its all about dynamics in our culture. Dems do it too they follow Hilary no matter what she has done, people throw money at the NRA, OFF when they succeed 0% of the time, and Trump.. well now we lost some rights and yet they( gun owners many of) will still follow..............people want so much to have a savior they will grab on to any person, group or lobby no matter how badly they fail the strength to believe is way stronger then the desire to doubt.

 

[Jcon268]

Until you want to buy a trigger for an AR and the BATF has determined that since it is a lighter trigger it will increase the rate of fire and therefore it is a "machine gun" and you can't own it, much less buy it.

I don't think people are quite understanding the scope of this change; it isn't just about "bumpstocks", it is about any device that the BATF determines can or does increase the rate of fire of a firearm. These are the same people who determined that a shoestring was a machine gun.

Shoestring Machine Gun

That's a sliding scale argument that goes all the way back to any semiautomatic weapon... period. It's still the finger of the shooter working, not mechanical action of machine gun fire. If they're concerned with anything beyond binary triggers then...yeah we have A LOT to worry about

 

[4Freedom]

I hate to say I saw this coming a mile away. In fact, I even suspected Trump would not do anything to help protect or liberate our Second Amendment freedoms. Yet, I knew Hillary Clinton was pure evil and openly declared war on gun owners, whereas Trump would sell out our 2nd Amendment rights if it meant him holding onto his power. However, Clinton already openly declared that the Constitution needs to be rewritten and probably would seek a "President For Life" position. As much as I hated having to vote for Trump, I did so, just to keep Clinton out of office.

With that being said, Trump has proven himself to be a fraud, liar and his term in the presidency has done a considerable amount of damage to conservatives and all those who cherish their freedoms. The Democrat party is more or less the National Socialist American Fascist party of the modern era. There are many Republicans, however, who are every bit as bad as Democrats and some are worse, because they are the RINO variety and use their Republican position to win your trust just so they can screw you over hundred times as bad as the Democrats you feared so terribly.

I am a Libertarian, but couldn't bring myself to vote for Johnson, just because I knew it would be voting for Hillary. However, I am not a big fan of Bill Clinton's golf buddy, Donald Trump. I know Trump is a fraud and would sell us out for the right price. He has proven that his number one priority is taking care of himself and would very likely rip away every freedom we have if it meant securing his own position of power and wealth. People claim he is not like other politicians, but this guy has been involved with politicians since many of us were sucking bottles. He's every bit as much of a Washington insider and even worse than many others.

As far as supporting a Bump Stock Ban because Bump Stocks have no use? Seriously, do you really trust your federal government with your freedoms? What gun/accessory ban that ever was presented just stopped at the very device they claimed needed to be banned? Look at our Assault Weapon Ban as an example. What originally was suppose to get dangerous "military weapons", like AR-15s, AK-47s or whatever else the media promoted as "Assault Weapons" off the street. Then, the power hungry politicians, many of them even Republicans, decided that banning AR-15s, Ak-47s, was not enough. It then became a ban of all semi auto mag fed rifles. Then, they decided to throw pistols in the mix. So, what originally was an Assault Weapon Ban of semi auto military rifles became a ban on every magazine fed pistol and rifle and also resulted in limiting high cap mags, etc.

And, as far as supporting the ban because it coincides with the NFA rulings. What true supporter of the 2nd Amendment can even acknolwedge that the NFA has any constitutional bearing at all. The very act was a serious infringement on our freedoms and was the first step and disarming Americans through very clever and ingenious bureaucratic design. Of course, they had to set up new government agencies to monitor groups of weapons they claim are not supported by the Second Amendment. These rules and regulations were subjective and were engineered by the government and have no real legal backing. What makes these laws and new governing authorities so daunting is that the government can at a whim decide what qualifies as a Second Amendment supported firearm and what they consider does not qualify under the Second Amendment. If we get the right Congress and President, one day, we may find we are only left with rusty muskets or antique firearms like in many European countries.


I could go on and on, but I am not shocked. If Trump decides to negotiate removing SBRs/SBSs and suppressors from NFA classification in exchange for a bump stock ban, then I would have more respect for him. However, if Trump, NRA and Congress support and pass a bump stock ban to appease the cries of the liberal fascists who want us disarmed, then I would say Trump and the NRA have shown themselves to be spineless traitors who kneel before the enemy and betrayed the promises and trusts of those who voted for them, including myself.

I'm going to be monitoring what happens closely. Trump made all types of bold promises to liberate our 2nd Amendment freedoms and remove all the unconstitutional government decrees. We were suppose to get National Reciprocity and even Constitutional Carry. However, instead, the only legislation Trump seems to be eager to push now is a Bump Stock Ban to appease the cries of the liberals and RINOs. Maybe, I have a dark view of the future and of Trump's presidency, but I do not have a good feeling about this at all. Something tells me they are going to pass this Bump Stock Ban and all the rules of current Class III NFA classifications will not be changed. I mean think about it.. Trump is doing this as a kneejerk reaction to all the protests and bad media image he is gaining. Would this be even the right time to support the declassification of NFA weapons when the liberals and their sheeple are crying to ban all semi auto firearms (what they call Assault Weapons)? Not only do I worry that Trump will have Bump Stocks banned and have nothing in exchange to show for it, but I think he may even go a step further and consider banning competition triggers and any other accessories that can increase the rate of fire. Politicians are much better at banning things to appease the populace than removing restrictions.

Also, many people have a very short memory about Republicans and gun rights. For many years, Republicans have been some of the largest supporters of gun control and restrictions. Everyone from Reagan, Bush Sr, Giuliani, Peter King have been staunch supporters of strict gun control and Assault Weapon Bans. Many Republicans magically became 2A supporters when the Second Amendment started to become a political issue.

In a perfect world, everyone would be Libertarian in my mind.. I have left the Republican party and now consider myself a card carrying Libertarian. Don't get me wrong, if Hillary ran again, I'd still vote for Trump and then I would vomit in the toilet afterwards, because of how sick I feel. I just hate our crooked and deteriorating two party political system.

As some others have said, Trump and the NRA will actually have passed more gun control in a year than what Obama have achieved in 8 years. I'm waiting and seeing, but I feel betrayed and have a bleak outlook for our future.

Here is a picture of Trump with his golf buddies. Every person in this picture are some of the most ardent supporters of gun control in our country..

 

[Jcon268]

Could you imagine how this would be handled if it were Clinton in office? How about Bernie?

 

[turbo_vanner]

Could you imagine how this would be handled if it were Clinton in office? How about Bernie?

They would talk about it more, and pat themselves on the back more, but the vote in congress would probably be the same. If thats where the decision is made.

 

[4Freedom]

Trump was Mr. Second Amendment during the election. Now he is Mr. Sensible Gun Control since he needs to increase his abysmally low approval ratings. He is rivaling Jimmy Carter as the most callous and feeble-brained leader our country has had. However, his ego is what really worries me. Today he is your best friend tomorrow he is promoting an AWB, because he had a "REVISION OF HIS VIEWS". How many here really have a deep trust of his intentions? I don't and never really did. He has gone 180 on several of his policies and it wouldn't shock me if the 2nd Amendment is one of those.

 

[Joe Link]

Trump was Mr. Second Amendment during the election. Now he is Mr. Sensible Gun Control since he needs to increase his abysmally low approval ratings. He is rivaling Jimmy Carter as the most callous and feeble-brained leader our country has had. However, his ego is what really worries me. Today he is your best friend tomorrow he is promoting an AWB, because he had a "REVISION OF HIS VIEWS". How many here really have a deep trust of his intentions? I don't and never really did. He has gone 180 on several of his policies and it wouldn't shock me if the 2nd Amendment is one of those.

Well said. I don't trust him at all.