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thoughts on a different 1911/.22 conversion?

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by Ownerus, May 18, 2012.

  1. Ownerus

    Ownerus South Clackamas Co. Active Member

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    I made a .22 conversion kit a few years ago for the 1911. It's different from the common ones in that it only replaces the barrel and magazine. Everything else, slide, hammer spring etc. stays the same. I thought it was a pretty cool idea but...is it really? As with any design, there are trade offs. It will probably never be as accurate as a Marvel but as a plinker I think it has some desirable features. I made a video to show it. I don't really have the resources to try to get it in production right now anyway but sometimes wonder if it's worth pursuing even if I did. What do you guys think about the concept?
     
  2. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing the first piece of conversion that you don't mention in video is to "make" a 22 breechface?

    Honestly I'm surprised it'll cycle with full slide and parts!! I'm very curious on the above, looks like a nice option possibly!
     
  3. Ownerus

    Ownerus South Clackamas Co. Active Member

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    Actually, no. Wasn't necessary. Just move the bore off center to deal with the fact that it's a rimfire.

    It does indeed cycle with the standard parts, slide, springs etc and bulk ammo. For some reason I have a hard time getting that across. I don't always HAVE to use just premium ammo like CCI Mini-Mags although I've found quite a bit of batch to batch variations in bulk ammo.

    I do have a patent on it FWIW.
     
  4. DRZ400S

    DRZ400S Washougal, WA. Active Member

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    Yes, I would buy....if you do move forword let me know or sale the proto type to me...:D
     
  5. techieguy

    techieguy Well-Known Member

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    send one to me and I'll be a beta tester for you, no charge! Great idea, I hope it works out for you.
     
  6. Nutty4Guns

    Nutty4Guns Portland ADHD Superstar

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    I would be interested in getting one. As others have stated, I am surprised that it cycles with the standard springs. I am glad it does though. It also makes me wonder why other manufacturers of conversion kits didn't think of it already. It seems that the cost of a barrel and magazine combo should be very reasonable compared to the other kits. It will be interesting to see what the future holds for you Ownerus. Good luck to you.
     
  7. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    That's very cool! I'd be interested in one, too. Unfortunately I don't have the resources to help you get this going.

    What was the part that went into the slide before the barrel?
     
  8. Ownerus

    Ownerus South Clackamas Co. Active Member

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    Granted there are some challenges but it surprised me too that in 100 years of 1911s, no one has done this before. Partly I think it's because people are conditioned to think it can't be done. I've been told that when I mentioned the project to others. If I'm ever able to get it into production, I think it can be less expensive than existing kits. That was one of my original intentions anyway. Maybe not as much as one would hope since the magazine is more complex than common magazines but less overall.
     
  9. Ownerus

    Ownerus South Clackamas Co. Active Member

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    That's the extractor. It engages the locking grooves in the slide and travels with the slide during recoil to extract the empty case.
     
  10. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Thanks.
    That's one nice conversion you've created.
     
  11. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Offset barrel is interesting. Hope it works out for you. Does it shoot low, high or dead on?
     
  12. Ownerus

    Ownerus South Clackamas Co. Active Member

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    My current prototype shoots approximately to point of aim. The compensation offset in the bore axis needs a bit more minor tweaking to get it to shoot right on to the original sights (one of the many issues of using the original slide) but that's doable if I'm ever able to fixture it for production.
     
  13. OcelotZ3

    OcelotZ3 Corvallis Active Member

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    Very interesting. I have a Marvell but would also be interested in one of these...
     
  14. MattBG

    MattBG Battle Ground, WA Member

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    Just so you know, there is a vendor that sells a kit today, Advantage Arms.
     
  15. Ownerus

    Ownerus South Clackamas Co. Active Member

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    I know. Also Kimber, Ceiner, Colt, Marvell and probably some others. What they all have in common, as I point out in my video, is that they replace the entire upper half of the gun with a .22. Slide, barrel, spring, the works. Most of them have an aluminum slide to reduce the mass to the point that the .22 rimfire can move it which changes the feel of the gun. Additionally, there is a lot of work (expense) in producing all the parts that comprise the upper half of the gun. Some of them still require you to install a softer hammer spring to get reliable functioning.

    My design intent was a simpler (and therefore hopefully less expensive) and more compact conversion that didn't leave half the gun behind. One that had full function of the standard .45 while only changing the barrel and magazine, instead of everything above the frame. Perhaps a pointless endeavor since relatively few people seem to see or appreciate the difference.
     
  16. Allfat

    Allfat Marion County Active Member

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    I think you have a good idea, but there may be a couple of things to think about before implementing it.

    1. Price. You will have to start manufacturing these heavily to get the retail price to a level that would get people interested in this vs. a current production model. I think it would have to be a pretty significant savings to be able to get people interested, and here is why:

    2. With the new slide and everything, they just slide one off and slide the other on, simple as that. With your system, you actually need to disassemble the slide and reassemble the slide, adding inconvenience to the process. With the entire slide modification, you are less likely to lose individual parts like in your example of a conversion. That extra step might not be a problem for you, but I can see it being a problem for the consumer. If they look at the shelf and see one where you are replacing individual parts vs. one that just slides on, it could make a difference.

    Personally, I like the idea and the concept, just trying to get you thinking about some of the roadblocks ahead if you do decide to try to bring it to market. Good luck!
     
  17. Ownerus

    Ownerus South Clackamas Co. Active Member

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    Thanks Allfat. You are right on both counts and I've given that consideration. Personally, I disliked the minor complexity of field stripping (which you have to do for normal cleaning etc. anyway) less than I disliked leaving the bulk of the gun somewhere else while converted. As for production costs savings, they should be pretty significant but even that's unlikely to overcome the "it's different, it's wrong" factor that goes with anything new.

    Actually, I'd pretty much lost enthusiasm for the concept before posting this thread. Most of the people looking at the thread don't bother to look at the video confirming again that there's a lot less interest in this than I thought there would be. Another neat (or so I thought) idea that's probably not going anywhere.
     
  18. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    I don't think your hold up will be "it's different, it's wrong" But more likely- "It costs $50 less and you don't even get a whole new top end".

    Unless your savings were SUBSTANTIAL I think that will be a biggest hold up to this being successfull. AA kits are mid $200's and that buys the customer all parts plus a slide- and also a platform that has interchangeable(ish) mags from a few different makers.

    But if I had the tools and ability I'd definitely make one to play with!!
     
  19. Ownerus

    Ownerus South Clackamas Co. Active Member

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    The way I see that argument is that for just a little more than that I can have a full purpose built .22 and leave my .45 intact. I LIKED the idea of fewer parts. I don't WANT to have to add a new top end but that's just me. Obviously, most people not only couldn't do this, they wouldn't want to. Wish I'd known how to do the market research before investing so much time/effort in it. Never could get much feedback then on something that not only didn't exist but most people wouldn't even consider as possible. Oh well, as Grampa used to say, live and learn die and forget it all. ;^P
     
  20. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Yeah, production will have to be high to keep the price down, but "slide one off and slide the other one on"? Huh? Allfat, I don't know you, and am not trying to pick on you, but are you familiar with the 1911? The process for changing this conversion onto a gun is no more involved than the typical field stripping required for cleaning and, as I see it, no more involved than what's required to install any other conversion.
    Granted, some (many?) will see it as you aren't getting as much for your money with this conversion compared to the others on the market, but I think it's a great idea.