This is why I don't trust reloads by other people, even commercial reloads

[DizzyJ]

I have very few people in my circle who I trust to shoot their reloads.

As far as brass failure, I've been shooting range brass for close to 30 years and have yet to have that happen. I may be lucky but I'm also betting that's a severe overcharge. My pistol reloads are generally on the low side. Enough to cycle the slide, and then just a bit more in most cases.

 

[po18guy]

Schlechtes glück mit dein Glock.

Aloha, Mark

The elephant in the living room.

 

[The Heretic]

Aloha, Mark

The first time was a Glock 19 about 10 years ago.

Today was a SIG Mk25

I was just now putting the gun back together after prying the brass out of the barrel.

I found a piece of brass stuck to the mag. I also found that the extractor was sticking out of the slide to the side. I was able to tap it back into the slide and it seems to still work. I will test it tomorrow - with different ammo.

That all makes me believe even more that it was an overpressure load.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

Pistol brass like 9, 40 and 45 fail by cracked case mouths. In 10's of thousands of range pick up pistol cases I have thrown less than a hundred away from cracks. I do find a lot of bulged cases. Those get culled out when the size die takes more effort to resize. My only other quality control step for the brass is case guaging completed rounds. I never have had a case head fail. Those photos pictured are massive over pressure that blew out the bottom of the web near the case head.

 

[Koda]

Damn that's some bad quality control.

it is, but to be fair this was my only issues with handloads and it was back in the Obama era ammo crunch where I couldnt find any ammo and when I scored some commercial reloads I was thankful... well, not so much after the fact, but anyways my guess is during that crunch commercial reloaders were compromising quality for quantity to keep up with demand.

 

[Koda]

Aloha, Mark

I followed the supported chamber debate years ago when I got into the 10mm and what I found is there are not really any unsupported chambers but there are overcharged ammo. Including factory ammo especially in 10mm. Basically, nobodys making barrels that wont support a SAAMI spec cartridge or they wouldn't be in business very long.

 

[CLT65]

One time years ago, I found a number of pieces of 9mm range brass that were severely bulged, with a couple cracked through the web. It amazed me to find more than one, like the shooter hadn't noticed. I've found badly bulged brass a number of other times too. They all go straight into the scrap bucket.

I've found other brass with the headstamps barely readable from being fired and loaded so many times. I could probably get another loading out of them, but I've gotten picky over the years, so into the scrap bucket they go as well. I have a big box of processed 9mm brass that I've thrown into the "not dangerous but not perfect" pile over the years. I figured I'd keep them to load and shoot where I may not be able to recover my brass, but range brass is so plentiful and primers so scarce, I'll probably never use them. Hate to scrap usable brass, but into the bucket they go.

 

[Local Loader]

The first time was a Glock 19 about 10 years ago.

Today was a SIG Mk25

I was just now putting the gun back together after prying the brass out of the barrel.

I found a piece of brass stuck to the mag. I also found that the extractor was sticking out of the slide to the side. I was able to tap it back into the slide and it seems to still work. I will test it tomorrow - with different ammo.

That all makes me believe even more that it was an overpressure load.

It's interesting that you listed those, this isn't the first time I've heard about this happening with those, glock more so. I keep finding and hearing things about glocks and barrels that mimic glock barrels having either excess bulging or blowouts. 10mm and 45ACP seem to be where I hear it the most with 9mm once in a while having problems. It's one of the reasons I don't use glocks and haven't bought one, have used them before but don't like them.

 

[ma96782]

RE : Post #22
German language.

Yeah....you made me use my Google Translator app.

Aloha, Mark

 

[WillametteWill]

This reminded me of another "factory reload" story. Early in my LEO career, my department actually reloaded our own 38 wadcutter rounds for our practice and qualification. Great money saver and they were good with us shooting as much as we wanted. The only caveat? They used inmate labor. Needless to say, a split case or five was not uncommon in a 60 round qualification. Quality control wasn't that strong part of this program.

These rounds were so low pressure / power that you could pretty much chase down a poorly aimed shot and swat it away before it hit the target if you wanted to. A split case in a low pressure 38 is a different animal than pretty much any 9mm. Never heard of any double charges, some low charges did happen though.

 

[TTSX]

You never hear about anyone blowing up from reloaded .22LR...

 

[Local Loader]

You never hear about anyone blowing up from reloaded .22LR...

I got some experiments in mind for 22lr so, maybe.

 

[RVTECH]

In 10's of thousands of range pick up pistol cases I have thrown less than a hundred away from cracks.

Ditto this with my own range pickup as well, and way less than a hundred thrown away from cracks or splits - probably less than 50.

The only problem I have EVER experienced with range pickup brass was with the case head separations on some S & B .357 brass a couple years ago. I think it might have been a rare, isolated situation as the brass looked nearly new, probably only once fired and happened ONLY with this 'lot' of brass.

Otherwise, other than splits and cracks, not other problems with range pickup.

 

[YippeeKiYoRed]

Will never buy commercial reloads again due to bad rifle and pistol loads from the same reloading outfit.

Was getting back into firearms and bought an AR-10. At the time new nothing about reloading (or AR-10's). But some reloaded 308WIN. Before long realized the tip of the firing pin was damaged. At the time didn't understand what that might mean. Later when I got into reloading discovered that can happen from a pierced primer due to over-pressure. The flame jets out of the hole and quickly erodes the firing pin tip. The outfit had mixed civilian 308WIN and 7.62NATO brass. What's worse is it was a variety of NATO brass and not all 7.62NATO brass is the same. SBS 7.62NATO brass is, on average, a couple grains heavier than LC implying an even smaller internal volume.

2nd story same outfit. Bought some of their 40S&W. Would occasionally have a round which refused to chamber. Checked them out and headstamps were 357SIG. They probably believed the story that 357SIG is just a necked down 40S&W and figured they could run 357SIG brass through a 40S&W die to restore it back to 40S&W.

Either of those mistakes could be made by a home reloader, but neither should ever be made by a commercial reloading outfit. Like I said, will never buy commercial reloads again. Sorry to any reputable reloaders reading this but for me that bad apple spoiled the bunch.

 

[Cerberus Group]

As somone who's been in the commercial reloading biz for 7 years, and a reloader for well over 30 years, I can understand the hesitation about purchasing reloads.

My company, High Desert Cartridge Company has a major stake invested in the industry.

We back Bill Blowers of Tap-Rack Tactical, who also happens to be sponsored by Walther Firearms, Surefire, Viktos and others. Our company name is displayed on the Walther website.

We also back Kyle Defoor of Defoor Performance Shooting, and our ammo is currently being used for training by the South Side Chicago SWAT team.

Because of who we back, and who and where our ammo is being used...we are well known in the firearms training industry. If we produce one bad round, my company becomes instant toast...yet they use our reloads with confidence, in the courses they present to students all over this great country of ours.

We only use once fired brass that we are able to confirm that comes from indoor ranges where customers must purchase new ammo from the range...thus we know it is in fact once fired.

Next, new or once fired brass are never loaded to anywhere near max pressures or velocity. Because our ammo is targeted (pun may or may not be intended here) for the training range courses designed for normal pistol and rifle course distances, there's no need to push the envelope and beat the firearms with high recoiling rounds. Thus the brass is not over stressed, and the likleyness of having a ruptured round is almost nil...yes, I say almost...as nothing, not even new are 100% guaranteed.

We load on Mark 7 computer controlled machines , that have multiple fault sensors...coupled with visual and physical inspections of rounds coming off the machines every minute.

Last, each and every round is chamber checked for proper SAAMI specs...ensuring that every round will chamber.

We live in an imperfect world, where all humans and that which is made by such humans is also imperfect...therefore nothing will be 100% perfect all the time...but there are plenty of processes to help get closer to being perfect.

 

[Jory45acp]

Years ago there was gun store in the town I where I lived and they had what passed for an indoor gun range out back. Since this was within city limits it had to be indoors. A room lit by four 60 watt bulbs lined with row after row of old tires, no ventilation to speak off, with 3 or 4 lanes to shoot maybe 25 feet max if that. It was bad, anyways to use it you had to buy their reloads which were overpriced, lead rounds that made you think you were back to shooting black powder again. I went once and left looking like I just pulled a 10 hr day in coal mine. Over the years the stories of squibs, hangfires, duds, case separations just added up. No one wanted to use it and it was a health hazard to say the least. Reloads can be a gamble.

 

[gmerkt]

Thank Heaven for no injuries.

The following is said mostly in jest. If you had this same issue with the same box of ammo 28,000 posts ago on this forum, your rate of .45 ammo consumption is very low.

Many years ago, I bought some MiWall ammo from time to time at the gun shows. Never had any issues with it. But what I bought was factory new ammo, their factory, that is. it was all loaded on commercial equipment using new components. I didn't know they sold reloads or "remanufactured" ammo. But just now I looked at their web site, they still have .38 Special and 9mm, maybe some others.

I haven't bought any ammo for a good long time because I load my own. Over the years, I've looked at reman ammo offered for sale, it shows different levels of quality. I don't think I'd buy reman product. My impression is that some of the suppliers of reman ammo are working at the lower end of the scale, trying to make money however they can, maybe aren't as experienced, careful or knowledgeable as a larger firm. Some, not necessarily all.

Common pistol ammo is typically loaded at lower working pressures than rifle ammo. Decades ago, I knew a guy who was making ammo commercially, had big machines, his own small factory. He sold at gun shows and to some retailers. His product line included both pistol/revolver and rifle ammo. Because of the higher working pressures attendant to rifle ammo, even more care and caution is necessary with its manufacture. This man had more headaches with his reman rifle ammo than with the handgun line.

Over the years, I've only had one blown-out .45 ACP case failure. With my own reloads. My conclusion was it was a down-right failed case. Which I never did find afterwards. I believe it was a normal powder charge, as there was no abnormality to the ignition when I fired the round. In fact, I didn't even know it had happened. What brought it to my attention is when I tried to fire my next shot, it wouldn't. I examined the gun, and found that the magazine had blown out the bottom. My remaining live cartridges were on the ground. The missing pieces of the magazine weren't found either. Too much rock on the ground.

Was getting back into firearms and bought an AR-10. At the time new nothing about reloading (or AR-10's). But some reloaded 308WIN. Before long realized the tip of the firing pin was damaged. At the time didn't understand what that might mean. Later when I got into reloading discovered that can happen from a pierced primer due to over-pressure. The flame jets out of the hole and quickly erodes the firing pin tip. The outfit had mixed civilian 308WIN and 7.62NATO brass. What's worse is it was a variety of NATO brass and not all 7.62NATO brass is the same. SBS 7.62NATO brass is, on average, a couple grains heavier than LC implying an even smaller internal volume.

Auto loaders like the AR10 are designed to use service grade ammunition. Which isn't loaded to the top of the scale. Over-pressure ammo can have the effect stated in the quote above. Worse, hot plasma gases can leak out around the outer edge of the primer and etch the breech face. Here's an idea: A low-end remanufacturer may be thinking more about customer complaints from failure to feed, so he loads to the high side. With some primer failures as a consequence.

We only use once fired brass that we are able to confirm that comes from indoor ranges where customers must purchase new ammo from the range...thus we know it is in fact once fired.

Yes, not all range brass is necessarily suspect. A good amount of it is once-fired, even on ranges where there are no restrictions on the ammo being used. I've found it to be reasonably easy to tell a once-fired case.

 

[The Heretic]

Many years ago, I bought some MiWall ammo from time to time at the gun shows. Never had any issues with it. But what I bought was factory new ammo, their factory, that is. it was all loaded on commercial equipment using new components. I didn't know they sold reloads or "remanufactured" ammo. But just now I looked at their web site, they still have .38 Special and 9mm, maybe some others.

When I think about it, the problem with the MiWall ammo I had, was most likely a powder overcharge.

If it happened with reloaded ammo then it could just as easily happen with ammo they manufacture with new brass as well.

Used brass was probably not the issue.

 

[TTSX]

To toss my hat in with bad reload experiences, a coworker of mine gave me, for free, about 350 rounds someone had loaded for him because he had 2 squibs and no longer trusted it. I pulled every single one and came up with, if I recall right, 16 more with zero powder and 9 with a pinch.

 

[jjfitch]

View attachment 1163162

IIRC, one of my first posts to this forum was regarding this very problem; some MiWall reloads I had bought at a gun show had one round blow out the web in a Glock 19.

The very same thing just happened to me with the same box of ammo - this time with my SIG Mk25.

It slight singed my hand and blew debris into my face. Luckily I was not hurt seriously - just a bit of soreness on my trigger finger knuckle and some debris in my eye - I should have been wearing eye protection but I could not find it inside the house - I should have known better!

I had thought the previous was a once in a big number failure. Now not so much. What is the chance of this happening twice with the same 50 round box. I had set the box aside because I didn't want anyone else to be injured, but I didn't think it would happen again.

The report was louder than usual, but that might have been caused by the brass blowing out the side.

Either the ammo was loaded too hot and/or they used brass that had been reloaded one too many times (possibly hot before). This is why I don't use brass I do not know the history of and why commercial reloaders should not either. I suspect MiWall just picked up range brass. It is also possible, that since I bought this at a gun show and I do not recall if it was MiWall selling the ammo or just some private party, that it was someone else who reloaded it and put it into a MiWall box he had laying around. I did buy multiple boxes of this ammo though - all with MiWall markings - it says "RELOADS" on the end flap and MiWall still reloads 9mm ammo.

Either way, I am going to try to find my bullet puller, pull the bullets and destroy the cases. Maybe weight the powder charges too.

That is a classic "over pressure" or put another way a double-triple charge.

It is impossible to find a double charge or squib by weighing due to the minute weight variations of loaded rounds and the powder charge!

Full disclosure:

I've been reloading for over 50 years and have had more than my share of case "blow outs"! These are caused by stoppages when using progressive presses like D550's and SDB's that don't have space for the "powder cop" die that senses lack of powder. Stoppages can be caused by a case issue like primer pocket issues or flipped primers or other similar issues requiring stopping and restarting. The platen (shell plate) should be cleared and started over. In our haste we "short cut" and try to just take out the offending round. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to see to verify the powder charge unless the round is removed to check.

And yes, it can be a "crap shoot" when using others reloads. I don't and nor do I load for others except family members.

Smiles,