This forum lost something

[Flopsweat]

Our soon to be gone friend said

"...
I am in dialog with wade to get all my posts and any presence of myself removed and if I have to go down the list one by one I will..

Freedom of the 2nd while crushing the 1st?
..."

A few minutes later he said

"Everyone with the argument that the owners of this site have every right to censor anything they want is totally true and I am not arguing that.
...""

I find these two statements to be in direct contradiction. Calling it a 1st Amendment issue by definition is saying that the site doesn't have the right to censor.

As far as I can tell, all Joe did was get rid of the name calling, which I think greatly improved the site.

You have every right to be hateful, nasty and obnoxious. Go find a place where they like that.

 

[etrain16]

You mean like Portland Bakeries get to set their own rules?

"I distrust every idea that doesn't seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."

— Nicolás Gómez Dávila

I completely agree with your point Erudne. I 100% disagree with the ruling against the bakery - it's their business, they SHOULD have the right to set their own rules, including who they want to do business with. That was a bogus ruling that in my mind, crossed the line. That bakery should have been left alone - if that means that their rules meant no more business, then that's their choice, and their consequences.

With respect to business owners setting their own rules, I feel the same way about this site. No one has to be here that doesn't want to be and no one has to buy a cake from a bakery that doesn't share their views. Such an easy concept. If that means people stop coming here, then so be it.

If I don't like a business, a forum, etc, I don't sit around and complain, I move on. I'm not sure why some would rather stay and complain about it. To me, that's no different than the folks that sued the bakery - they could have moved on, but they wanted to stay and punish them because they didn't do things they way they wanted. I wonder when someone here is going to file a lawsuit and call the government in to whine about them not getting their way??

 

[edslhead]

Your all making too much out of a website. Go shootin

 

[etrain16]

I guess for some that constantly wish to ascribe rules in a business or on a forum to somehow violating the First Amendment, it's time, once again, for Constitution 101:

The complete text of the First Amendment states:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

In no way does the First Amendment restrict the rights of private persons, private property owners or private business owners from making their own rules about what conduct can happen on their private property. If they choose to restrict actions, choose to restrict certain types of speech, that is within their rights.

Now, if the government attempts to do that, that's when the Constitution steps in to protect us (at least it's supposed to).

To summarize, since this forum is private and not owned, operated, funded or regulated in any way by the government, the First Amendment simply doesn't apply. That leaves two choices, stay and comply with their rules, or move on. So simple.

 

[Flopsweat]

Your all making too much out of a website. Go shootin

You make a good point. This thread will probably still be going strong when I get back.

 

[PiratePast40]

Maybe we need a cry room!

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

First off I'm sure the main purpose of this site is to make money. Now maintaining a lively interesting gun Forum? It's a "catch 22" situation here in Oregon these days.

The site owner, (I hope!) wants to grow membership and thus help promote the 2ndA cause in a region that is full of Progressives. Not just social liberals or old school Dems but Progressives.
Striking a balance between educating gun owning Progs on the importance of preserving our gun freedoms vs alienating them forever is near impossible.

I'm shocked the same Progs and Dems who are thinking of voting for Kate Brown even own guns or are members of this forum but that gives us all hope!

The only hope this State/Country has to keep what gun rights are left lies in forums like this,

as well as personal contact with other friendly Gun Rights Voters like the majority of members here I hope are.

Now carry on Men! and Women

 

[Andy54Hawken]

This post is pointing fingers at anyone or targeting anyone in particular.

Not everyone on a forum will like or agree with what you say.
Does it that really matter in the long run?
Will your life come to a halt if someone disagrees with you?
Do you go thru your daily life arguing and name calling etc .. with everyone you meet face to face?
If not , then why do it here?
If so , does that behavior get you what you really want or need?

Being polite and respectful costs you nothing.
I have found that life often returns to you what you put out.
If you treat others with politeness and respect , then chances are you will be treated with politeness and respect.
This is basically what our forum rules state.
Andy

 

[P7M13]

I like the changes to the site which emphasize respect.
While Chomsky is probably my favorite contemporary thinker, I do not believe discourse has been limited here: you can still do it, it must be in the proper location, and must be respectful. Otherwise, debates devolve into pissing matches.

I propose we make a section entitled "The Pit."

• Must be a site supporter to enter;
• You must digitally sign a waivier indemnifying NWFA;
• No rules from the site apply;
• Posts cannot be edited or removed;
• All civil laws pertaining to libel, threats, etc, still apply, and your statements can be used against you.

I've always thought, if you're gonna talk sh*t, stand up and be recognized, be forthright, don't hide it in inferences like a politician, and be willing to receive the same. It's the anonymous hecklers who are the pu55ies here.

 

[DuneHopper]

I like the changes to the site which emphasize respect.
While Chomsky is probably my favorite contemporary thinker, I do not believe discourse has been limited here: you can still do it, it must be in the proper location, and must be respectful. Otherwise, debates devolve into pissing matches.

I propose we make a section entitled "The Pit."

• Must be a site supporter to enter;
• You must digitally sign a waivier indemnifying NWFA;
• No rules from the site apply;
• Posts cannot be edited or removed;
• All civil laws pertaining to libel, threats, etc, still apply, and your statements can be used against you.

I've always thought, if you're gonna talk sh*t, stand up and be recognized, be forthright, don't hide it in inferences like a politician, and be willing to receive the same. It's the anonymous hecklers who are the pu55ies here.

Your ideas are good ones, my problem then it becomes the elite can only discuss a topic.
I can say there are many members who can not afford or are on SS# and paying dues to talk makes little sense. Also anonymous is the only reason I am here. Where I live people know me, I do not need people knowing I own guns and or knowing what I say on the net in support of rights. When I need to go public I would do so up in Salem like I have. But the discussions in something like a pit could put people at risk if known. Ask around how many people with NRA stickers get flat tires or keyed simply because they have a belief. Bases on the amount of posts ok sure that make sense but I am very suspicious everyone keep wanting us to disclose name and now be more progressive friendly doesn't sound like a particular safe place if it comes down to that. I have had threats not paranoia threats because I am a gun owner. They hid never made themselves known, making ourselves public not for this guy.
Some not job descided to post names on Craigs of gun owners locally doing so here would make it easy for Antis they join donates and then have access to all they need.
Again good ideas but put something like that in place and there wont be many left to join as people enjoy and love privacy. And what is done with information now days makes ideas like this dangerous in my opinion. But not my site its up to the site owners to allow something like that or now. I think this topic is dead , pretty much so I am going to go clean my guns

 

[etrain16]

Again good ideas but put something like that in place and there wont be many left to join as people enjoy and love privacy. And what is done with information now days makes ideas like this dangerous in my opinion. But not my site its up to the site owners to allow something like that or now.

Thankfully Joe has stated very clearly, he will never require people to use their real names. Like you, I value my privacy. There are just too many con artists, crooks and even anti-gun folks that would like to use that information for some nefarious purpose.

I may not use my real name here, but what you see in my posts is who I am in person. Those who have met me here, in person, can probably vouch for that. I don't think it's necessary to have all your information displayed publicly to have honest discussions. I'll say the same things to your face that I say on this forum. And I think most folks here probably do the same.

But wait, your real name isn't "Dune Hopper"??? Damn, I thought that was an awesome name!!

I think most folks would be disappointed to know my real name is "Phil McCracken"

 

[Joe Link]

I'm not going to take the time to rehash this again, it can all be found here and here. It looks like a few in this thread need to re-read what was wrote both there and in the rules. Firearm-related discussion is not prohibited, as @etrain16 pointed out.

While we've seen some long time members go elsewhere, we've also seen many long time members return. We're also seeing many new people around here. Given the more welcoming and respectful nature of the forum, I couldn't be more happy about this.

First off I'm sure the main purpose of this site is to make money.

I don't financialy support it anymore because of it plus with all the ads you shouldn't be asked to help financially in the beginning there weren't any ads that's why we helped support it and when he wanted to do a upgrade people donated money to pay for it.

Excuse me while I rant here a minute.

Regarding the finances of this site, I've been completely honest with everyone. It shouldn't bother me when people say things like this, but it does. I work between 40-50 hours on NWFA each and every week in addition to a part time job. Even @Cogs was surprised when I told him my income. With Portland's booming tech industry I could easily sell NWFA tomorrow and get a job making 2-3 times my current income, but I don't. Supporting the firearm community here in the Northwest is a purpose and a passion for me, money doesn't make me happy.

While this makes me extremely uncomfortable, I hope this will put this to bed once and for all. Maybe one day I'll make a wage from NWFA I can live on, raise a family, etc. but that sure isn't going to happen on $6.88/hr.

 

[etrain16]

I'm not going to take the time to rehash this again, it can all be found here and here. It looks like a few in this thread need to re-read what was wrote both there and in the rules. Firearm-related discussion is not prohibited, as @etrain16 pointed out.

While we've seen some long time members go elsewhere, we've also seen many long time members return. We're also seeing many new people around here. Given the more welcoming and respectful nature of the forum, I couldn't be more happy about this.





Excuse me while I rant here a minute.

Regarding the finances of this site, I've been completely honest with everyone. It shouldn't bother me when people say things like this, but it does. I work between 40-50 hours on NWFA each and every week in addition to a part time job. Even @Cogs was surprised when I told him my income. With Portland's booming tech industry I could easily sell NWFA tomorrow and get a job making 2-3 times my current income, but I don't. Supporting the firearm community here in the Northwest is a purpose and a passion for me, money doesn't make me happy.

While this makes me extremely uncomfortable, I hope this will put this to bed once and for all.

View attachment 293809

Joe, continued thanks for making this forum available and for putting the time and energy into it that you do.

 

[erudne]

Maybe we need a cry room!

why not Stalin had one

 

[Creep]

Censorship on a privately owned forum? Do any of you expect guests or other renters in your home to abide by your rules, if they have agreed to your terms prior to entering your home? I do, too, so what on earth makes you think it works differently in Joe Link's home?

@Joe Link I appreciate your (and the staff's) hard work putting and keeping these forums up, I have learned a great deal in just a couple years here, and found new things to sink my time and money into, so thank you guys and gals. IMO, you should run your site as you see fit, and don't sweat the guys who are unwilling to adapt. The majority of us like not being beaten over the head by someone else's religious/sexual/political bias, and the rules you expect adults to abide by are quite reasonable.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I'm not going to take the time to rehash this again, it can all be found here and here. It looks like a few in this thread need to re-read what was wrote both there and in the rules. Firearm-related discussion is not prohibited, as @etrain16 pointed out.

While we've seen some long time members go elsewhere, we've also seen many long time members return. We're also seeing many new people around here. Given the more welcoming and respectful nature of the forum, I couldn't be more happy about this.





Excuse me while I rant here a minute.

Regarding the finances of this site, I've been completely honest with everyone. It shouldn't bother me when people say things like this, but it does. I work between 40-50 hours on NWFA each and every week in addition to a part time job. Even @Cogs was surprised when I told him my income. With Portland's booming tech industry I could easily sell NWFA tomorrow and get a job making 2-3 times my current income, but I don't. Supporting the firearm community here in the Northwest is a purpose and a passion for me, money doesn't make me happy.

While this makes me extremely uncomfortable, I hope this will put this to bed once and for all. Maybe one day I'll make a wage from NWFA I can live on, raise a family, etc. but that sure isn't going to happen on $6.88/hr.

View attachment 293809

Joe, I think that this financial report is completely unnecessary! 99% of us know that the site needs to make money. We understand that you need to make a living, such as it is. It's why we send money every year. You are doing fine!

If you think this subject is going away, l think it's naive. Everyone will just have to deal with it as his lights guide him.

 

[BoonDocks36]

Hmm... the guy with 200 posts is whining, and the guy with 6,000 posts is...

winning?

MEH. No Winning or Losing about it, PC Censorship is like picking up the Clean End of a TURD.

The Only reason I check in here is to read the humor Section, and even ~that~ is no Longer Able to be Corrected to a Non-Pornagraphical Aspect, PC and Zero Tolerance, Alive to create ? ? ? ?

I see a few names I have respected and had Discussions with, but I just do Not Feel Like having the Censorship of certain Narrowly Minded Moderators Kontrolling my published posts.

/End MEH.

philip, I find comfortable Conservative Company Elsewhere.

Kopy Kept for Prosperity . . .

 

[Goosebrown]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...rature-denying-climate-change#comment-7587687

The owners of this site must be proud.

Censorship of any form leads to the above.

No ands ifs or buts, this is always the end result when humans decide they know better than you..

I am in dialog with wade to get all my posts and any presence of myself removed and if I have to go down the list one by one I will..

Freedom of the 2nd while crushing the 1st?

Please

Ps we are doomed

Bye. Good luck and thanks for all the posts.

 

[Mor4us]

I like the changes to the site which emphasize respect.
While Chomsky is probably my favorite contemporary thinker, I do not believe discourse has been limited here: you can still do it, it must be in the proper location, and must be respectful. Otherwise, debates devolve into pissing matches.

I propose we make a section entitled "The Pit."

• Must be a site supporter to enter;
• You must digitally sign a waivier indemnifying NWFA;
• No rules from the site apply;
• Posts cannot be edited or removed;
• All civil laws pertaining to libel, threats, etc, still apply, and your statements can be used against you.

I've always thought, if you're gonna talk sh*t, stand up and be recognized, be forthright, don't hide it in inferences like a politician, and be willing to receive the same. It's the anonymous hecklers who are the pu55ies here.

Actually i have a similar idea. BUT, 10t wants to use extortion so one can buy his freedom of speech which is absurd.

How about this, if it is at all feasible and can be managed hear me out.

Start a section on this site titled "Censor Free Zone".

Place a warning at entrance stating to the effect that this is for completely open debates and if you are of thin skin, low self esteem or in any way Politically Correct, enter at your own risk.

Then, the management turns off the censoring algorithms, tells the moderators to stay out and lets see if the people on this site want to be censored or not.

Now this would make for true freedom, those that want to feel all fuzzy can stay out.

Is this at all possible?

 

[Medic!]

''Censor Free Zone''

I like that.

If We made such a spot. Would you be satisfied to stay in there?
Or would you feel the need to come out ''now and again'' and fix all of us?