The US Army, as lead agency, is looking at new service Pistol

[etrain16]

Not much news coming in around the house lately, hmmm?

The current admin has killed more people with drones, including American citizens, without warrants, than any other. This president has gotten away with things that the former WH occupants would only dream about. And they had pretty good imaginations.

Maybe it's blindness caused by ideology or extremely biased sources that's produced this woefully myopic point of view. It sure does not match the facts that I have seen.

As far as "surrender", the withdrawal from Iraq was negotiated by the previous BUSH administration. What was Obama thinking, anyway, when Bush agreed to leave Iraq? And the BSA in Af-banannastan is not negotiable, they want us T.F. out of there, and so out of there we are going.

One can just occupy a country for so many decades for no point whatsoever, like, as in, the objective was a moot point in 2001 after Bin Laden departed in December 2001, before the occupants of that country eventually get sick to death of the occupation, just as if Canada had occupied Oregon and Washington. Eventually we would say, time to GFO. Like, as in, the first week.

I seriously suggest reading Chalmers Johnson's The Sorrows Of Empire for some remedial perspective.

Well, as Pandaz3 pointed out, that comment is a bit old (almost 6 months now). But you may want to read the context of what I said back on 7/4. I was responding to a joke made by another member, and my comment was tongue-in-cheek as a response to his comment. In other words, it was a joke.

I'm quite aware of this administration's failings, no additional reading necessary. And you may want to back off the caffeine for the rest of the morning

 

[Pandaz3]

Here is yet more on the Berretta saga

 

[claybreakerjaker]

What this administration would like to see is a sidearm that, when the trigger is pulled, would send a little flag out of the muzzle that says bang, bang!!!!

Sheldon

Infinity likes

 

[pdxjazz]

Here is yet more on the Berretta saga

Seems like their PX4 Special Duty Type F .45 ACP pistol, that was purposely built for the last USSOCOM Combat Pistol program (2006) would also work pretty well for the Army. The Beretta rep in this video claims that it was the only pistol, out of all of those submitted, that managed to pass all of the required tests. Here is the video where he states that, at about 2:30 into it-

I do have to wonder what the S&W/General Dynamics combo will come up with? Should be interesting.

 

[spookshack]

I hear you.. with that considered, I'd use those Russian +P+ armor piercers or ideally, those crazy Belgian armor piercing cartridges.. they'll make a 1" wide hole
after penetrating quite the vest.. that also has a 4mm titanium plate..

That guy would make a great ventriloquist!

 

[Pandaz3]

Here are a couple more articles with some of the latest scoop and some Caliber topic

 

[Pandaz3]

Looks like Berretta is down for the count, latest March news.

 

[boogerhook]

You can read the article here . Very quick summary from me. The Army as the small arms proponent for all the services, is looking at a 9mm replacement. Most of the M9's are 25 plus years old, and many in the front line units are showing wear and tear and generally are not reassuring to the troops. A loss of faith in the pistol more than anything. Anyhoo they are looking at ,357 Sig, .40 S&W, .45 ACP and possibly other callibers. This is always a "Sticky Wicket" as they are trying to develop a "One size fits all" gun. First there are physical differences in users. I do not know which service has the smallest active duty person or the largest, but I expect there is a huge difference in physical measurements between them. Then there is the primary tasks. The Coast Guard is primarily a law enforcement mission. they board ships with pitching, wet decks, seach some very confined spaces. They might prefer a .380 for that job!

Anyway very interesting, they are meeting July 27.

.380 would be great, that would increase production and bring down prices for 9mm short (kurz) .... but I highly doubt it

 

[Pandaz3]

Since they will require FMJ ammo only, I don't think they will, they could stay with 9 MM, but I am guessing ,45 or .40.

 

[Pandaz3]

May news on subject, Looks like the Army is not up to speed

 

[Quacky88]

Thanks for the update Pandaz. I was curious about the the progress of the program and hadn't been able to find anything on it as of late.

 

[Pandaz3]

I'll keep posting as I hear something, I think the whole process is so convoluted and that makes the process as interesting as the proposed replacement gun.

 

[boogerhook]

if they did .380 they could stay with Beretta and go Cheeta ;-)

 

[Pandaz3]

I have a similar gun, the Browning BDA, out of my six .380s it is my favorite to shoot, not small though. The Army might be better off with a .380

 

[farpolemiddle]

Pistols really have never played a big factor. As much as I hate the M9 I never thought it was worth changing. They are nice to carry around the FOB so you can leave your rifle in the Hooch. If anything I would have loved to have a lighter and shorter pistol in 9MM. The M9 is a pig and is way too large. The Brits are running Glock 17s. The Marsoc guys had Glocks and spiffy 1911s in 45. I would think a Glock 19 would fit the bill nicely but for some reason the Army just can't get past the manual safety even though the 50 cal didn't have safety for 70 years. I also think 9mm works just fine and do not see 45 or 40 cal ever happening. And no way in hell 10mm will ever be on the table. A one size fits all is what it will ALWAYS be. Different back straps would last a few months in the arms room before they were lost or ditched.

 

[taroman]

The whole deal is nothing more than a make-work project for overpaid AMC bureaucrats.
Army is broke. Cutting 40K soldiers from the force, with many more possible.
Last thing on earth they need or can afford is as a new handgun.
Maybe some actual training with what they have would be a good start.

 

[NSDQ]

Number of soldiers actually needing a pistol is so low I can't even recall the statistics. Service pistols are a moot discussion since the military can't use hollow point ammunition. Military guys that will actually have to use their pistols are already properly equipped with the correct weapon systems. This is why the corps and the navy use .45's for their SOCOM units.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Makes as much sense as sending watch standers out with empty rifles, empty magazines (or no mags at all) and having all the ammo in sealed packs on the back seat of the Sgt's truck, in case of emergency you know. When you need ammo NOW - Sarge is just 5 or 10 minutes away drinking coffee and listening to Coast to Coast across the post.

Dont forget no communication! At least we had a bayonette on our M-14's! I was very competent with the "Spirit of the Bayonette!"

As an interesting aside, at Fort Sill there was a growth business in mugging watch standing trainees. One guy resisted well enough so the bad guy (Master Sargent) didn't get away fast enough and our NCO of the watch cut his legs out from under him 12ga style! Very satisfying!

 

[Pandaz3]

Here is an article about a possible change to JHP for the Army

On another note there are two kinds of Bayonet Fighters... The Quick and the Dead.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

"Don't Ask Don't Tell"

"At ease! Ok, troops, listen up! Here is a box each of M-whatever Ball Ammo! Now if'n you boys go to the PX and buy yoreselves some a that high velocity, hole in the nose stuff, we ain't gonna ask so don't you go an' tell!"
"Now if you spot any of those ol' Haig fellers askin' uncomfortable questions, you jist ignore 'em!" "See!"


If my, especially odd tonight, rant didn't make it through, Blank the danged 1899 and 1907 Hague conventions! 110 year old bull!