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The US Army, as lead agency, is looking at new service Pistol

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by Pandaz3, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Cornelius, Oregon NRA Lifetime Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You can read the article here . Very quick summary from me. The Army as the small arms proponent for all the services, is looking at a 9mm replacement. Most of the M9's are 25 plus years old, and many in the front line units are showing wear and tear and generally are not reassuring to the troops. A loss of faith in the pistol more than anything. Anyhoo they are looking at ,357 Sig, .40 S&W, .45 ACP and possibly other callibers. This is always a "Sticky Wicket" as they are trying to develop a "One size fits all" gun. First there are physical differences in users. I do not know which service has the smallest active duty person or the largest, but I expect there is a huge difference in physical measurements between them. Then there is the primary tasks. The Coast Guard is primarily a law enforcement mission. they board ships with pitching, wet decks, seach some very confined spaces. They might prefer a .380 for that job!

    Anyway very interesting, they are meeting July 27.
     
  2. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Cornelius, Oregon NRA Lifetime Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I like .357 Sig, 10mm, or .45 personally
     
  3. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    "lead agency"? whut? I'm sure they'll get by.
     
  4. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    @titsonritz -- CG since when? M9 when I was in - during Clinton years.
     
  5. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Cornelius, Oregon NRA Lifetime Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Well maybe they should issue Kel-Tec PMR-30's. 30 rounds of Magnum goodness. But on second though after some recent .22 experience where I did not reliably hear a Bang each time the trigger was pulled, I will stay with centerfire.

    Just stirring the pot
     
  6. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

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    What this administration would like to see is a sidearm that, when the trigger is pulled, would send a little flag out of the muzzle that says bang, bang!!!!

    Sheldon
     
  7. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Cornelius, Oregon NRA Lifetime Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Too true.. amazing what politics can do in the military I see the Germans had four helicopter gunships operating in support of UN troops in Afghanistan, and they flew over 1860 hours there since January 2013 and they have never fired a shot. Tell me that in that target rich environment that isn't politics!
     
    coyotecaller likes this.
  8. mkwerx

    mkwerx Forest Grove, OR Well-Known Member

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    It seems like we're reading about the Army or DoD soliciting for new service pistols all the time. That's supposed to be why Smith & Wesson added thumb-safety models to the M&P line up, why Beretta came up with the PX4, yadayadayada.

    Compact PDW's seem to be replacing the pistol as the defensive arm of non-frontline troops, or those in tank or vehicle crews - so I'm not sure there's going to be as many pistols procured. Who wants to tote around a semi auto pistol when you can have an HK MP7, or the FN P90? 30-50 rounds in a burst or full auto capable gun vs 7-15 (or 17) rounds in your pistol.

    It'll probably come down to who is willing to sell their guns the cheapest, if a new pistol IS adopted this time around. The lobbyists of the various gun makers, and the private deals they can cut with administration officials will also play a big part.

    If the DoD/Army hasn't changed it's position, and they want a hammer fired double action pistol - I can see the PX4 leading the pack since it's cheaper than the FN FNX and is comparable in quality. The Sig P25o could be a contender but it lacks a manual safety which they seem to be stuck on having as well. HK's latest guns are good, but probably too expensive to get the contract.

    If striker guns are OK now - the M&P probably has the edge since it's got ambi safety, reversible mag release, and the backstrap kit. The Ruger SR series edges out by price, but the safety is smaller and that might be a ding against it. The Sig P320 could be a contender here too - especially since they are mission-configurable with the swappable grip frames (but I don't see this being a huge need for the military types - how often do line soldiers need a compact concealable gun or a subcompact highly concealable gun?) I don't see the FNS being a winner here, I don't see Glock making a real try at it either unless they essentially give the guns away for nothing.


    Maybe they'll just wind up buying the newer 92's that have the tac rail, or if they opt for a .40 they can get 96's. The justification could be "then we won't have to change our training program and most holsters and magazine pouches will still work and we'll save money blahblahblah"

    Or maybe we can just give our boys blunt hollow plastic sticks wrapped in nerf foam, so as to be as useless for killing bad guys as possible.
     
    RicInOR likes this.
  9. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Why insist on a safety if you're not allowed to carry it with even a loaded chamber?
     
  10. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

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    All the safeties must, at all times, even with an empty sidearm, be applied so that if some terrorist major begins to spray bullets around you will be unable to defend yourself for as long as possible . . . workplace violence you know!!!!!

    Sheldon
     
    coyotecaller, mkwerx and Certaindeaf like this.
  11. mkwerx

    mkwerx Forest Grove, OR Well-Known Member

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    Makes as much sense as sending watch standers out with empty rifles, empty magazines (or no mags at all) and having all the ammo in sealed packs on the back seat of the Sgt's truck, in case of emergency you know. When you need ammo NOW - Sarge is just 5 or 10 minutes away drinking coffee and listening to Coast to Coast across the post.
     
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  12. Dornai

    Dornai Vancouver, WA Active Member

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    Putting my hopes on the .40 S&W. 9mm is a little too weak for me when I consider I could be facing enemies wearing ballistic vests, and .45 ACP is a little too big for my smaller frame.

    I know people dislike the .40 S&W for various reasons, but I also know it's served my father well in LE for 12+ years as a Sheriff, CERT, & SWAT officer. I'd place my faith in it.
     
  13. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    With this administration, that seems a bit too violent. Probably something more like "I Surrender" or "I'm sorry, it's all our fault, we'll just leave now"
     
  14. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    The Russians field a pretty mean military pistol.. they say it's way more reliable than a Glock, especially in the super cold. They make some very hot ammo (9mm) for it too.
     
  15. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

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    Certaindeaf
    We could end up adopting that pistol . . . by default!!

    Sheldon
     
  16. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Yea, I catch your drift.. I just find it interesting that it's all steel and select fire? (don't really know about the full auto though as it's really just academic to me personally).
     
  17. Smitty79

    Smitty79 Tigard Member

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    One thing to remember about military rounds is that you aren't allowed to use expanding bullets. This goes back to a treaty in 1899.

    From everything I've read, with modern bullets, 9mm to 45 ACP are all about the same. With ball ammo, I think I want a big bullet.

    If I was looking for a military handgun, I would want a double stack 45. My personal preference would be a Glock 21 to save on weight for the poor guys who have to hump them in the boonies. Saving a few ounces is good.
     
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  18. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    I hear you.. with that considered, I'd use those Russian +P+ armor piercers or ideally, those crazy Belgian armor piercing cartridges.. they'll make a 1" wide hole
    after penetrating quite the vest.. that also has a 4mm titanium plate..

     
  19. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Cornelius, Oregon NRA Lifetime Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I am not sure if they meet the same rules established so long ago, remember the Europeans are only concerned with thw United States, and whoever they might be in conflict with, obey the rules
     
  20. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    FN Five-seveN with the extended 30 rd magazine.
    If it's good enough for Juan Cabrillo, then it's good enough for me.