The US Army, as lead agency, is looking at new service Pistol

[Medic!]

I guess when you can't decide on a gun you decide on one that's a shape shifter?

I would like to see our military guns made in America.
At an American arsenal. Like Springfield once was.

Let's see what Trump thinks about "Making America German''.

 

[maddog]

So, the Army as the lead agency gets to tell the Marines, et al, to "Follow Me!" I'm kinda enjoying this...

The Marines will do what they've always done. They'll say "Good for you!" Then do what they want, anyway. Semper Fi guys, from a candy-a**d old Army tanker.

 

[HuckleberryFun]

Moving into the 21st century.
With 1800's ammo.

We need a good hollowpioint.

Good point. It always grimly amused me that it's OK under treaties and international law to use cluster munitions and even nukes but not OK to use those dreaded evil "dum dum bullets".
Fine...if an FMJ doesn't put 'em down then nuke 'em!

 

[Medic!]

Good point. It always grimly amused me that it's OK under treaties and international law to use cluster munitions and even nukes but not OK to use those dreaded evil "dum dum bullets".
Fine...if an FMJ doesn't put 'em down then nuke 'em!

Or rifle rounds that fragment. And wicked shards of shrapnel from overhead artillery.
Besides ISIS didn't sign any agreements on how to conduct war.

As a matter of fact. I think we should have a cache of special munitions for those that burn people in cages.

Gloves off? OK then gloves off!

 

[Enginerd]

...

It is just speculation Ill admit, but if MSRP of the candidates submitted is any indication of final price, it would have been expensive. M9 is heavy, long, and lacks modular capabilities to fit to preferences of individual troops. Some like it for those reasons but there is better options out there that will suit all. The M9 platform is not the end all be all of pistol design. Some people will get burned trying to reacquaint themselves with the new pistol, but this is about finding a sidearm for future classes of servicemen.

But all that is reasons why the M9 would fail the competition. The reason their pistol was rejected immediately was they had the arrogance to ignore the serialization requirement. Military said they wanted a serialized internal swappable part to define as the pistol (P320 its the fire control unit) so that they could do this http://i2.wp.com/insidethexring.com...sig-p320-full-size-compact-and-subcompact.jpg . They shot themselves in the foot and threw away a sweet contract just like colt did with the M4.

 

[Quartermaster]

It is just speculation Ill admit, but if MSRP of the candidates submitted is any indication of final price, it would have been expensive. M9 is heavy, long, and lacks modular capabilities to fit to preferences of individual troops. Some like it for those reasons but there is better options out there that will suit all. The M9 platform is not the end all be all of pistol design. Some people will get burned trying to reacquaint themselves with the new pistol, but this is about finding a sidearm for future classes of servicemen.

But all that is reasons why the M9 would fail the competition. The reason their pistol was rejected immediately was they had the arrogance to ignore the serialization requirement. Military said they wanted a serialized internal swappable part to define as the pistol (P320 its the fire control unit) so that they could do this http://i2.wp.com/insidethexring.com...sig-p320-full-size-compact-and-subcompact.jpg . They shot themselves in the foot and threw away a sweet contract just like colt did with the M4.

They've changed the req's so many times I think they pushed Beretta out on purpose. They've been talking about a new pistol program since 2010.

 

[Sstrand]

Eisenhower warned against the "Military Industrial Complex!"

Sheldon

 

[HuckleberryFun]

They've changed the req's so many times I think they pushed Beretta out on purpose. They've been talking about a new pistol program since 2010.

These things are always rigged to favor the favorite.

 

[Howard1955]

Now that President Trump is in office, maybe the new handgun for our military should be the "POTUS .45". Not sure who would manufacture it, but it would have to be something a billionaire would be proud to carry. A no-nonsense, surrender-or-die, .45 caliber with gold highlights. In my imagination, it's a 1911.

 

[HuckleberryFun]

Now that President Trump is in office, maybe the new handgun for our military should be the "POTUS .45". Not sure who would manufacture it, but it would have to be something a billionaire would be proud to carry. A no-nonsense, surrender-or-die, .45 caliber with gold highlights. In my imagination, it's a 1911.

What? No gold 1911s? Sad! (@realDonaldTrump)

 

[Enginerd]

They've changed the req's so many times I think they pushed Beretta out on purpose. They've been talking about a new pistol program since 2010.

Its just the progression of firearm design, the M9 couldn't be modified to accommodate all these modern features thus it was no longer was competitive with newer firearms when reqs came out that called for those features. M9s work(ed), but that doesn't mean there isn't something better out there. It would be like arguing for keeping the Springfield when the Garand came out. Both fantastic weapons but one suits its role better

 

[DieselScout]

Now that President Trump is in office, maybe the new handgun for our military should be the "POTUS .45". Not sure who would manufacture it, but it would have to be something a billionaire would be proud to carry. A no-nonsense, surrender-or-die, .45 caliber with gold highlights. In my imagination, it's a 1911.

So it would fire blanks right? Loud flashy, but really a whole lotta nothing?

 

[Howard1955]

So it would fire blanks right? Loud flashy, but really a whole lotta nothing?

That remains to be seen. President Trump might surprise a lot of people.

 

[DieselScout]

That remains to be seen. President Trump might surprise a lot of people.

Jury's out, it's his time to shine.

 

[mkwerx]

Not surprised to see the Sig 320 get it. It seemed the initial solicitation was intended with the P250 in mind - and when the 320 was released, it seemed to seriously fit the bill. It is a bit sad that the Swiss once again get the deal (Sig is a Swiss company, after all, not German) but maybe these will all be made in Vermont.

They knew they did not want to keep the M9 in any way shape or form, so they wrote the criteria with that in mind. Just like the FBI criteria seemed to scream Sig P320 as well - but then Glock pulled the Gen 5 out of their bubblegum, which didn't meet all the criteria, but they met some and likely are damn near giving the guns away and takng the old Gen 3's (and maybe 4s by now) in trade.

I still think a new rifle would've been a far better investment than a new pistol. Most soldiers don't get handguns, and those that did - the M9 fit the bill for most of them. Maybe if 4'10 women and candy assed limp wristed guys weren't becoming a larger part of the service, they wouldn't need super light, super small guns? But I digress. Gotta cater to a small percentage of people again, or dumb the requirements down so more can pass. There used to be size and strength requirements for some jobs, for example, Military Police. When I enlisted in 2002 and got to Ft. Leonard Wood (I was supposed to be an MP, so I would've been one toting the M9 around for daily duty) I was kind of shocked to see a bunch of tiny, tiny women in my training company. Seriously, we had half a dozen girls that didn't even measure 5' tall. These "ladies" were going to try to enforce UCMJ and have to arrest rowdy or drunken soldiers? Not without getting their bubblegum kicked, or having to shoot someone, or more likely - they would do what most women civilian cops do - they call for lots of backup, and let the bigger guys who show up actually handle business while they orbit. Political correctness has taken precedent over effectiveness - and this is certainly showing in how the civilians (FORMER President Obama) who are in charge mess things up.

Until recoil-less energy weapons can be fielded, there will be people who can't even properly handle the recoil of a light 5.56mm carbine - do we now seek a lighter, smaller caliber to compensate for their inadequacies? At what point does the leadership push back and tell the civilians that what they are doing is dangerous, and that they are compromising the combat effectiveness and efficiency of the military by dropping the standards? All jobs are currently open to all sexes - so I wouldn't be surprised at all if in a year or three we start hearing a bunch of complaints about the M4 being too heavy, or to hard to shoot and thus demand for a new rifle that's lighter and easier to shoot goes out. I'd agree it's time to upgrade rifles - but not because the M4/M16 is too big, or too hard to shoot. I think the technology has advanced, and will continue to advance, to the point that there are better weapons available now that can make our fighting men (and women) more effective. And I think there are more effective rounds available than the 5.56 as well, that can be chambered in guns the same size, and give the same capacities while increasing capability of the military as a whole.

 

[DirectDrive]

A tribute to the Stoner design is how the M16 was able to morph into the M4.
I don't see it going away for a long time.
SCAR or bullpup ? Just say no to that weird, wacky schitt.

Too bad M4 wasn't in 6.8SPC....would have been even better, IMO.

 

[Martini_Up]

I think it's time, after all this back and forth, pontification and such... to post this clip:

 

[mkwerx]

They could well adapt the M4 into the M8 or whatever the next rifle designation will be - there are lots of advancements the civilian sector has made that would fit a military role as well. The new PDW stocks available that make the weapon even more compact could benefit soldiers - sure would make getting in and out of vehicles a bit easier if they could shorten the gun up even more.

Monolithic uppers with free floated hand guard section - no more dicking with rotating rails, two piece handguards, and they would make the gun more adaptable for mounting and locating certain pieces of gear. No more cheese grater rails that require covers either.

They're already moving into making optics standard - though I don't foresee the military ditching iron-sights any time soon, but optical aiming devices have come a long way and are very durable these days.

Going to a more harder hitting caliber - like .25-45 (in which the only difference is the barrel right now), 6.8, etc wouldn't be bad either.

I won't go so far as to say a piston gun should be adopted, because the DI system when maintained and built right works fine. But since suppressors are becoming more prevalent throughout combat units - a piston design with adjustable gas would allow the suppressor equipped guns to work better, and be less prone to excessive wear and over pressure, and they not shoot gas back through the charging handle into the face of the shooter like a DI gun is prone to do now.

A side charger or forward charging handle would be a nice change too. I don't think the whole "everything must be ambi" thing is a big deal, because it's not like lefty's make up 50% of the population, but having some ambi controls would be useful if you have to switch sides for some reason as a righty.

Would be cool if an American company could get the contract to built an American Rifle for American military personnel too...

 

[HB of CJ]

Why does the military even need a handgun? If they think they need one, why not just dust off some old 1911A1s? The M4 will probably morph into something very close. Caliber? A rebated rim 6x45? A rebated rim 6.8 spc? Around and around we go. All it costs is money.

 

[HuckleberryFun]

Why does the military even need a handgun? If they think they need one, why not just dust off some old 1911A1s? The M4 will probably morph into something very close. Caliber? A rebated rim 6x45? A rebated rim 6.8 spc? Around and around we go. All it costs is money.

A handgun is a kind of security blanket...just nice to know its there. It's practical function is to allow enemy snipers to know from a distance who to shoot.