Thank you Ruger for the loaded chamber indicator!!!

[ZigZagZeke]

OP needs some serious training to keep himself from doing something stupid in the future. You just learned what you dont know, now do something about it. If you dont see that you arent smart enough to have a gun. Someone doing what you did, and then pulling the trigger, has consequences ranging from embarassment, arrest for reckless endangerment or similar, removal from training, loss of job, etc, all the way up to going to prison for manslaughter if someone was in the path of your bullet. So you got lucky. Now go get some training.

And yes I know that highly trained military and le unit members can also make mistakes- but the OP is neither, and doesnt have any reason to get lax (as sometimes happens) nor to pin it on the law of averages (because those units train a hell of a lot.) He got lucky, and luck doesnt count.

Loaded chamber indicator? No one uses those. But they do check their weapon to ensure it is loaded before heading out on a mission or shift. In the dark you just open up the gun enough to feel the loaded round. I would never trust a loaded chamber indicator as most are rinky dink in design, and I dont trust something like that.

Wow! Second post here on NWFA and you're already making assumptions about other people's training, intelligence, and right to own a firearm. You and others who are talking the same way need to give it a rest. If you think you are somehow superior and immune I don't want to be anywhere near you with a gun. Your implied denial that it could happen to you just makes you look silly.

 

[tac556]

Actually I know far better than most how easily an ND happens compared to most. I have seen just about every stupid thing possible done with a gun- some by untrained idiots and some by highly trained proffesionals. So yeah, if the OP doesnt see the need to get some training, he's not smart enough to have a gun. Period. Knowing your own skill level and honestly making a personal assessment about it is important. I think he will see the need, and remedy his lack of skills. My post was to push him to do that. This isnt video games, it is real life, and when you screw up big there are big consequences. How serious those consequences are depends on whether the person broke just one safety rule, or two. Breaking one rule- by itself, means no one is hurt. Breaking two means someone is in trouble at the least, and someone dies at the most. I have seen a lot of both, so there it is. Good thing real life informational value isnt based on how much free time I have to post on a web forum (as you implied), but instead is based on the content of what I have posted, which is based on many years of actual expertise in the subject being discussed.

 

[Intention]

Actually I know far better than most how easily an ND happens compared to most. I have seen just about every stupid thing possible done with a gun- some by untrained idiots and some by highly trained proffesionals. So yeah, if the OP doesnt see the need to get some training, he's not smart enough to have a gun. Period. Knowing your own skill level and honestly making a personal assessment about it is important. I think he will see the need, and remedy his lack of skills. My post was to push him to do that. This isnt video games, it is real life, and when you screw up big there are big consequences. How serious those consequences are depends on whether the person broke just one safety rule, or two. Breaking one rule- by itself, means no one is hurt. Breaking two means someone is in trouble at the least, and someone dies at the most. I have seen a lot of both, so there it is. Good thing real life informational value isnt based on how much free time I have to post on a web forum (as you implied), but instead is based on the content of what I have posted, which is based on many years of actual expertise in the subject being discussed.

So lets see if I get your advice 1. Op and just about everyone but you is stupid. 2. Based on what one would assume is a life time of experience ie. 30 or more years, you have seen both trained and untrained make the same mistakes over and over again with varried results. 3. Your advise is get more training? Call me crazy but if we use you as the base line statistically it would seem it makes aboutly no difference wheather you are trained or untrained with regards to ND.

 

[Kruel J]

And yet, here I am. Apparently too stupid to own a firearm but alive. Something I've thought about every day since it happened. It's embarrassing. It was a rookie mistake. But in my 20+ years as a gun owner, it was my first. I'm NOT perfect and I've NEVER blamed anyone or anything except myself. Read the whole thread for a refresher.

Maybe I should just sell my collection and join the liberals.......

So a few of you demand I get more training. OK. Did I ever mention what training I have or don't have? Have any of you tough guys ever been in a car accident? Did you sell your car and forfeit your drivers license after?

I've beat myself up more than any of you could regarding my poor handling. Thank you to the class-act members that understand how tough it was to admit this and how tough its been to have my (let alone my handicapped father's) character questioned.

To those few that feel the need to trash me as a person and trash my father (2 tours and a few scars to prove it) feel free to PM me a time and place to discuss your opinions.

 

[3MTA3]

Kruelji - I didn't read this entire train wreck of a thread because of the simplle minded bashers that just can't get the point. Forgive me if this has already been stated, but I think that after this incident that you would be the safest person to go shooting with for quite some time. I'd be shocked if you ever made a gun handling mistake again in your life. Some of these jokers giving you a hard time sound like they are writing from their mother's basement. I don't know how many years of training they think you need to handle a firearm safely, but my Dad covered it pretty well in about 5 minutes when I was ten. It's worked pretty good so far, but then again I don't have some fancy certificate that my Mom can hang on the wall. Ignore them and don't let them get under you skin, especially on a GREAT day like today.

 

[titsonritz]

Actually I know far better than most how easily an ND happens compared to most. I have seen just about every stupid thing possible done with a gun- some by untrained idiots and some by highly trained proffesionals. So yeah, if the OP doesnt see the need to get some training, he's not smart enough to have a gun. Period.

That's not your call. Period.

The 2nd does not say:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of smart people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

While I agree training is a good thing, in no way should it dictate who may/should own a firearm. If someone chooses to own a gun and know nothing about them that's their choice. (BTW I do not believe this describes the OP, he just made a slip, and the reality is, it happens)

 

[Both Eyes Open]

I want to throw this in the mix, Good on you Kruelji to come in and remind us all that safety is paramount! I am sure that us REASONABLE folks here will squirrel this away in the back of our minds and it will help make us all a little bit safer around the sport we all love! I have had safety drilled into my head from a very young age and although I have not had or been close to an ND/AD (whatever you want to call it) I won't for a second tell anyone that I am above mistake. I am VERY happy that there was no discharge and you and your father are unharmed as a result. Good work catching that "indicator"! I won't even start to tell you anything about safety because I know you know. Be well, be safe and enjoy your new firearm!

 

[biggie24420]

I tell you what I do when I clear a pistol. I own Glocks and when I go to secure my Glock(s) the first thing I do is to remove the magazine, I pull back the slide and lock it. After I get the round out (if there is one in the chamber) I rack the slide a few more times and visually make sure it's empty.

After making sure the pistol is safe, I don't pull the trigger. There is no need to pull the trigger unless I am trying to store an empty Glock in a carry case or whatever. When you see a Glock with the trigger pulled, you can visually see that the pistol is secure.

Never assume a firearm is unloaded unless you have double checked! my friends unload and secure a weapon in front of me and hand it over, I still check to make sure it's unloaded..... it's a habit and muscle memory.

 

[mjbskwim]

And yet, here I am. Apparently too stupid to own a firearm but alive. Something I've thought about every day since it happened. It's embarrassing. It was a rookie mistake. But in my 20+ years as a gun owner, it was my first. I'm NOT perfect and I've NEVER blamed anyone or anything except myself. Read the whole thread for a refresher.

Maybe I should just sell my collection and join the liberals.......

So a few of you demand I get more training. OK. Did I ever mention what training I have or don't have? Have any of you tough guys ever been in a car accident? Did you sell your car and forfeit your drivers license after?

I've beat myself up more than any of you could regarding my poor handling. Thank you to the class-act members that understand how tough it was to admit this and how tough its been to have my (let alone my handicapped father's) character questioned.

To those few that feel the need to trash me as a person and trash my father (2 tours and a few scars to prove it) feel free to PM me a time and place to discuss your opinions.

Now you are starting to sound like a punk and not able to accept criticism or listen to how to change your habits in gun handling.

Grow up a little there kiddo. Some are trying to help. Yes some aren't,but you make it sound like you are unwilling to realize you did.in fact, bubblegum up.
Realize this and have a little humility and you may learn something.

And you may even reach puberty.
Or sound like you did

 

[mcneal9926]

Ah, freedom of speech, just watch what you say. I wonder, how many of these critical posts came from God fearing people. Let he without sin cast the first stone.

I won't insult you for admitting a mistake. I commend you for your humility, and the honesty to post in this glass palace of know it alls and perfect people.

Just a thought, on Easter. Those of you who posted negative remarks, and call yourself Christians should be ashamed of yourself. I am sure the outsiders and all of the foolish people of the gun world, who do not take stock in your less than helpful insults, will continue to ignore your pessimism, and holier than thou scoldings.

OP, ignore these fools. They know not what they do....

 

[tacticalgunner]

This was fun to read. Bashing, hating on one another, awesome, all a thread should be.......just be safe everyone. Media does not need to bash us due to a ND. So lets not give them a reason.

 

[mjbskwim]

Ah, freedom of speech, just watch what you say. I wonder, how many of these critical posts came from God fearing people. Let he without sin cast the first stone.

I won't insult you for admitting a mistake. I commend you for your humility, and the honesty to post in this glass palace of know it alls and perfect people.

Just a thought, on Easter. Those of you who posted negative remarks, and call yourself Christians should be ashamed of yourself. I am sure the outsiders and all of the foolish people of the gun world, who do not take stock in your less than helpful insults, will continue to ignore your pessimism, and holier than thou scoldings.

OP, ignore these fools. They know not what they do....

Since y'alls gunna be all christ like,maybe you should go look up that one about judge not lest you be judged by your own measure?

You maybe don't want to tell US to be ashamed of OURselves?
You included?

Just sayin

And whats this got to do with easter and the easter bunny?

 

[mcneal9926]

Since y'alls gunna be all christ like,maybe you should go look up that one about judge not lest you be judged by your own measure?

You maybe don't want to tell US to be ashamed of
OURselves?
You included?

Just sayin

Ah, the ol I know you are but what am I. Never said I wasn't included. But then again I never passed judgment on him either. Go back to the beginning of the thread and notice I commended him for his catch.....

Just saying.....

 

[Kruel J]

Now you are starting to sound like a punk and not able to accept criticism or listen to how to change your habits in gun handling.

Grow up a little there kiddo. Some are trying to help. Yes some aren't,but you make it sound like you are unwilling to realize you did.in fact, bubblegum up.
Realize this and have a little humility and you may learn something.

And you may even reach puberty.
Or sound like you did

So you, like many others, didn't read the whole thread and yet feel the need to comment. I've stated that I messed up many times in this thread.. READ before you type. That many posts and you still don't read an entire thread before responding? Wow.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

OK, here's how it really is, and then I'm done with this thread.

I spent 32 years as a technician in the power generation and steel making industries, working daily with 2500 psi steam at 2000 Deg F, 19.2 KV electrical equipment, 150 psi natural gas lines, 30 ton rotating machinery, asbestos, explosive gases, toxic gases, toxic chemicals, 50% NaOH, 50% H2SO4, liquid mercury, confined spaces, or hanging 150 feet in the air. Instant death was never more than 10 feet and a split second away. I've seen the smallest mistake take the lives of both rookies and 30 year veterans. Training? Briefings? Reminders? Yes, daily. It was at least 20% of our time on the job.

Here's the way it is. In any dangerous activity you will screw up 1 in 100,000, or 1 in 10,000, or one in 1 million times, but you will eventually screw up. The idea is to add enough safeguards and redundancy so that the odds of making a mistake, and the odds of not being protected from that mistake are multiplied together. Multiply the odds of an arc over at a high voltage switch (100,000 to 1) by the odds that your flash protection safety equipment will fail (10,000 to 1) and you have a billion to 1 odds that you'll be injured or killed by that arc over. If you're lucky that 1 time in a billion that there is an arc over and your protection fails falls outside your lifetime. But that doesn't mean you can't still be the "lottery winner" and get nailed. You increase that probability when you choose not to check the testing or expiration dates on your safety equipment. Every shortcut taken, every step forgotten increases your odds of a bad outcome, but no matter how good you are, how well trained, or how hard you try, those odds are never zero.

Repetition is no help. I saw two guys doing the same operation they'd done thousands of times in their careers, and dozens of times that day get their procedural steps out of order and attempt to ground an energized 12KV line. They're both permanently disabled. I saw two guys get cooked like a pork roast when the high pressure steam line they were working on failed. Their error? They were working in a small room where the inner door knob had fallen off, and instead of fixing the door knob first they went ahead with the job. When the line burst they couldn't get out of the room. A simple shortcut cost them a horrible death. I saw a meterman experience a flash over on a 480 volt service as he unplugged an old meter. He wasn't wearing his face shield and hot gloves as mandated, because he'd successfully done it thousands of times and he was in a hurry. The only thing that saved his eyes were his glasses. Melted copper beads were embedded in the glass. He's permanently disabled from the burns to his face, arms, and chest.

The same concept applies to firearms. Stuff happens. Mechanicals fail. Mistakes are made. Procedures are forgotten. Steps are taken out of order. People get in a hurry. I've seen veterans with thousands of hours of training and experience screw up just like the rookies with relatively little. You can't assume that because someone has had a lot or a little training or experience things will or won't happen.

When an incident happens the only positive thing that comes of it is education. In industry these events are analyzed and dissected to find the root cause and what could have prevented the incident and the injury. The first rule is that we DO NOT PLACE BLAME. What we want is to learn from what happened, not persecute someone already injured or dead. Placing blame is not only counterproductive to preventing repeat incidents, it's dangerous, because you could be next, no matter how good you think you are or how much training you have. You're human. Human beings make mistakes.

 

[Kruel J]

^^^Agreed. A very real and articulate statement from an obviously educated man.

I'm done with this too.

The rest of you that want to trash me, call me names or otherwise.....knock yourselves out.

 

[mcneal9926]

Me too. But for the sake of those who like to not read and comprehend your original post, and it's intention.....

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"-Adam Savage

 

[Joe Link]

Quite a few of these comments are really unbecoming of our community, especially the personal attacks. I'm closing this thread.