Taurus - Thoughts?

Alexx1401 · Jan 28, 2020

Kruel J said:
I had one. It wasn't good. A buddy of mine bought a PT-111 and it broke before he ever shot it. Took 2 1/2 months to get it back. Everytime he called he was given some BS runaround. He sold it off quickly and swore them off for good.

This isn't just people jumping on the proverbial band wagon. This is real world experience. Sure there are some that have had good luck, otherwise the company wouldn't exist. But there are MUCH better options for not much more scratch.

There are of course "real life" examples of their stuff (Taurus) having everything from "minor stuff" to full blown failures. This is something that happens with ALL mass manufactured firearms though, not just some. Many of these Co's crank out tons of stuff that just works. Most get one that works fine and are never heard from. The poor guy who gets a problem is of course going to make noise. No one likes being the poor guy who got a problem. The "lower end" the gun though, the more you will see some, not all but some, bashing them by word of mouth rather than by actual experience. Taurus is only one of these. Kel-Tec is another shining example of this. MANY who have never actually owned one love to rail that everything they make is crap <shrug>. The people making them are laughing all the way to the bank so they really don't care.
Kimber is another shining example of this. They make a "higher end" 1911. I have heard many bad mouth them as garbage too. The reason is they make a hell of a lot of 1911's. They also let out a few bad ones. Often the guy who paid a premium price for one, then finds it does not work, well he of course makes some noise. Can't really blame him.
I have oft relayed the story of the LEO I watched one day. Comes in to get a new gun he ordered. He takes it out of the box, loads it with the ammo from his carry piece, drops carry piece in box, new in his holster, heads back out to work. The look on my face caught the counter guys attention and he just shrugged. It was a higher end wheel gun but damned if I would trust it like that without shooting it first.

titsonritz · Jan 28, 2020

Certaindeaf said:
Play with the bull, get the horns.

lol

Yep

Kruel J · Jan 28, 2020

Alexx1401 said:
The people making them are laughing all the way to the bank so they really don't care.

Nail on the head. That's the problem, they are making products marketed to SAVE AND DEFEND LIVES.

Yet...they don't care.

This just about sums it all up. No more need to argue.

Jerry · Jan 28, 2020

For all of you who have had ACTUAL experience with a Taurus….Thanks for sharing.

The rest of you that came to play in the sandbox....I hope that you had fun.

Jerry

Kruel J · Jan 28, 2020

Jerry said:
For all of you who have had ACTUAL experience with a Taurus….Thanks for sharing.

The rest of you that came to play in the sandbox....I hope that you had fun.

Jerry

You're welcome. I hope it helps you make a better informed decision.

titsonritz · Jan 28, 2020

Kruel J said:
Nail on the head. That's the problem, they are making products marketed to SAVE AND DEFEND LIVES.

Yet...they don't care.

This just about sums it all up. No more need to argue.

I won't but any product from a manufacturer that make SOB holster, for that reason.

Legion489 · Jan 28, 2020

Go to GUN TESTS magazine and look at the Taurus reviews. I owned a .22 revolver quite a few (30?) years ago and it was fine. Got a 1911PT and it is excellent (well, until I go to the range again and it pulls a Kimber on me!).

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OK, went back and reread most of the posts, so I am adding this. Some had a Taurus years and years ago and it was bad. OK, no problem with that, but remember Mossberg back in the mid1970's? Worthless trash is too kind a word for what they were putting out. The shotguns (literally) broke every fifth shot and the rifles were not any better. The local gun store was sending every Mossberg back to the factory - repeatedly - until they simply refused to sell Mossbergs any more, too big a hassle.

Remember what S&W was putting out at that time? Same deal, they were junk, the trigger pulls were like gravel roads and don't get me started on repair! Of course if you buy a gun from a British toilet maker, what do you expect? Actually about seven years ago a guy I know bought a new S&W25-2, brought it out to the range and guess what? The barrel unscrewed while firing for the first time! Some how someone forget to pin the barrel, but then they forgot to drill the hole for the pin in the first place, so I guess that is why it wasn't pinned!

Kimber? Junk. Period. Ask any custom pistolsmith their opinion of Kimber, just hold the phone away from your ear and make sure no women and children are anywhere around or they may be scarred for life. Kimber quoted me 3 months turn around on mine when I bought it ten years ago. From what I hear, quality "may" (or may not) have improved, but the smiths still refuse to work on them if they don't have too.

Henry AR-7? Worthless trash doesn't even begin to cover it and the Henry repair service is a sick joke! The Henry lever action .22 is a fantastic gun though!

Lee Precision Reloading? The presses are junk. OK, I have not owned any Cast Classic presses, but have owned or used every pot metal press they put out. Again worthless trash doesn't begin to cover it! Lee QC and repair is worse than computers and electronics too. Love the Lee dies and lots of other Lee stuff, but the presses are junk, pure and simple. Go to the Lee fan sites and they still admit that the Lee presses are junk! And those are people who LIKE Lee!

Ruger? Read Billy's bio, he was a great gun designer, but also an elitist snob. Us unwashed masses should not be allowed to own guns! I am serious about that. Why do you think they are "guns for RESPONSIBLE gun owners"? Guess the other makes are for the rest of us! Willie wrote and pushed through the hi-cap magazine ban as he felt the underlings should not be allowed to own them. He also authored the assault rifle ban because the Mini-30 was such a POS that no one would buy them and he thought that cheap surplus weapons were under cutting his junk rifles, so ban guns and the gun owners be damned! AMERICAN HANDGUNNER wrote extensively about this and actually reprinted the letters that Billy Boy sent to EVERY member of CONgress at the time telling then to ban magazines and surplus guns! He refused to sell the Mini-14 to the public for several years until it becametotally obvious that the military was not going to buy them and the police were using surplus M1 Carbines when they wanted a carbine. He also refused to sell factory 20 round magazines for years after the Mini-14 was allowed to be sold to the public.

Bottom line? Don't go bashing guns you know nothing about, don't bash guns because what was put out 10-20-30-40 years ago was bad, and ESPECIALLY, don't bash guns you have no personal knowledge of! I'm sure your brother's friends', uncle's guy he meet in a bar who knew a guy who had a friend who.... is telling the truth, OR MAYBE NOT!

Kruel J · Jan 28, 2020

Jerry said:
For all of you who have had ACTUAL experience with a Taurus….Thanks for sharing.

The rest of you that came to play in the sandbox....I hope that you had fun.

Jerry

Oh, and pretty sure like 90% of us that posted do indeed have ACTUAL experience with Taurus. Including me.

leadcounsel · Jan 28, 2020

Alexx1401 said:
This is something that happens with ALL mass manufactured firearms though, not just some.

Agreed, with a caveat. The CS on the back end makes a world of difference. Taurus lies, frustrates, steals (e.g. taking your money for less than you bargained for by giving you a $200 replacement for a $400 product without consent or thru coercion and dirty practices), and screws over customers. This isn't theoretical. I've gone thru it with them THREE TIMES.
* Taurus #1: was sent back at my expense, I was lied to it was fixed, it was returned to me with the same failure to feed problem. I repeated that process again. Finally sold it with full disclosure to a gun shop for 1/3 what I paid. Took a nearly full loss on the gun factoring costs and time.
* Taurus #2 and #3: Fought with Taurus for 2 years jumping thru hoops and filing arguments with them until finally I got fair replacements AS PROMISED IN THE SETTLEMENT. They tried to weasel their way out of their binding legal settlement agreement and it took me tens of hours to hold them to it. And it took them several months to ship 2 guns.

By contrast, my other gun repair experiences:
* Phone call to Ruger had the part for a 40 year old gun in the mail to me for free. Part was in my hand in a week at no charge.
* FNH has now at least 6 times on 6+ different service bulletin FNS guns sent me a pre-paid service tag shipping paid both ways and repair done in a month or less.
* MSAR did a non-warrantied UPGRADE at their option, paying shipping both ways, and gun was done in under a month.
* Walther did a service bulletin repair and paid shipping both ways and gun was in my hand fixed in a month or less.
* CZ had a non-mandatory recall, and replaced my gun with a brand new identical model at no cost and in about a week. On a different gun, a call to them had the part in my possession at no charge in about a week.
* Keltec replaced their gen 1 P3AT with a gen 2 at no charge and promptly. No hassles whatsoever.

Edited to add: I was standing next to him at the range when his polymer SW 9mm disintegrated due to a defect in the polymer, causing it to shatter. SW sent him a brand new pistol immediately.

So yes, anything mechanical and mass produced may have issues. I expect a company to stand behind it and make it right. Not lie, deceive, frustrate, delay, obscure, and short change and thieve from the customer.

CountryGent · Jan 28, 2020

Kruel J said:
Oh, and pretty sure like 90% of us that posted do indeed have ACTUAL experience with Taurus. Including me.

Indeed.

I had/have a Taurus and a Rossi revolver and two Rossi rifles. Two are very excellent (Taurus snub, Rossi lever-gun), one is good but haven't had much time with it (SBRed Rossi Ranch Hand), and the fourth one was good until deemed unsafe and they ripped it off (full-sized Rossi revolver).

Statistically speaking, that samplying size is meaningless. There has to be some truth to the many reports of bad things going down with their products over the decades. And I know first hand their warranty policies blow. Ergo, no more buying them.

Alexx1401 · Jan 28, 2020

Legion489 said:
Go to GUN TESTS magazine and look at the Taurus reviews. I owned a .22 revolver and it was fine. Got a 1911PT and it is excellent (well, until I go to the range and it pulls a Kimber on me!).

If that is still the same Gun Tests of decades ago, then it's a poor place though? Unless it's changed . I gave up on them long before Algore invented the net. It sounded like a great idea at the time. People would actually buy a gun, then test it. Well problem was unlike Consumer Reports they could not afford to buy a good quantity of the said guns. They bought one. If it worked they pronounced the entire line a BUY. If it did not they gave the entire line a DO NOT buy. This is no way to test things. When I had a sub for a while they did a 3 gun test for home shotguns. They got a Mossy 500 that did not work and gave that line a do not buy. Really?? At the time I thought how many people I knew who had a Moss 500 that had no idea their gun was no good.
Now if they have changed how they do things these days? Then great. The one real downside to the gun rags is since they have to have paid advertisers they of course always had a hard time saying anything bad about any guns.

leadcounsel · Jan 28, 2020

Legion489 said:
Go to GUN TESTS magazine and look at the Taurus reviews. I owned a .22 revolver and it was fine. Got a 1911PT and it is excellent (well, until I go to the range and it pulls a Kimber on me!).

Thanks for reminding me. I just moved and know I saw that binder of "Gun Test" magazines and need to locate it again.

Back before the internet was as it is today, before forums, and way before free YOUTUBE reviews, etc., I actually paid a annual subscription to "Gun Tests." It was where a "noob" would learn about guns. I still have (and have been meaning to paw thru) a large binder full of those old issues of "Gun Tests." Had that subscription for maybe a few years.

At the time I realized their sample size and critiques were not very good, but it was one of very few "data points." My own personal experiences were far different. They bagged on some excellent guns, and praised some really questionable guns. I have reviewed a few of the issues or write-ups over the years, out of curiousity. I have found their reviews to be essentially worthless as very small sample of guns (generally ONE) and low round counts, and odd or subjective critiques.

I am going to locate those Gun Tests, paw thru them for a laugh, and probably toss them out into the recycling bin...

Alexx1401 · Jan 28, 2020

leadcounsel said:
Agreed, with a caveat. The CS on the back end makes a world of difference. Taurus lies, frustrates, steals (e.g. taking your money for less than you bargained for by giving you a $200 replacement for a $400 product without consent or thru coercion and dirty practices), and screws over customers. This isn't theoretical. I've gone thru it with them THREE TIMES.
* Taurus #1: was sent back at my expense, I was lied to it was fixed, it was returned to me with the same failure to feed problem. I repeated that process again. Finally sold it with full disclosure to a gun shop for 1/3 what I paid. Took a nearly full loss on the gun factoring costs and time.
* Taurus #2 and #3: Fought with Taurus for 2 years jumping thru hoops and filing arguments with them until finally I got fair replacements AS PROMISED IN THE SETTLEMENT. They tried to weasel their way out of their binding legal settlement agreement and it took me tens of hours to hold them to it. And it took them several months to ship 2 guns.

By contrast, my other gun repair experiences:
* Phone call to Ruger had the part for a 40 year old gun in the mail to me for free. Part was in my hand in a week at no charge.
* FNH has now at least 6 times on 6+ different service bulletin FNS guns sent me a pre-paid service tag shipping paid both ways and repair done in a month or less.
* MSAR did a non-warrantied UPGRADE at their option, paying shipping both ways, and gun was done in under a month.
* Walther did a service bulletin repair and paid shipping both ways and gun was in my hand fixed in a month or less.
* CZ had a non-mandatory recall, and replaced my gun with a brand new identical model at no cost and in about a week. On a different gun, a call to them had the part in my possession at no charge in about a week.
* Keltec replaced their gen 1 P3AT with a gen 2 at no charge and promptly. No hassles whatsoever.

Edited to add: I was standing next to him at the range when his polymer SW 9mm disintegrated due to a defect in the polymer, causing it to shatter. SW sent him a brand new pistol immediately.

So yes, anything mechanical and mass produced may have issues. I expect a company to stand behind it and make it right. Not lie, deceive, frustrate, delay, obscure, and short change and thieve from the customer.

YES! To me it is FAR more important to me to hear how a Co does when the customer has a problem, than how many had a problem. Now days with the net Co's need to be careful even more in how they treat people. The tales of VERY poor service from Taurus would cause me far more "pause" than the stories of problems. I am far, FAR, more likely to try a Co that I keep hearing those who got a "lemon" from say the Co treated them great after and made them whole again.
I have a Bersa .380 Wife bought years ago like this. When she was looking I told her buy it even though I was leery. They, at least in the past, have had this same problem. Some bad ones getting out and it seeming to take forever to get fixed. Pistol was cheap enough I took the risk. Since almost always if something is defective new it's going to break very soon. So shot the crap out of it when new and then told her keep it.
This is also why I never got my hands on a Seecamp back in the day. Several times I had a REALLY good day at a show and had a pocket full of cash. Would handle one of these and damn I wanted one. Problem was even the gun rags would reluctantly mention the owner was HORRIBLE at customer service. If you got a bad one he could care less since he had your money and orders were at least a year behind. So I never could bring myself to drop the cash on one.

Member 34319 · Jan 28, 2020

If I didn't "chance it",as it's become clear on this thread, buying a Taurus, I'd never have bought one of the more enjoyable pistols I own of recent. The TX22. Thing is an absolute Glock 44 killer

, eats every piece of 22lr ammunition I've put in one of its magazines. Soft shooting, amazing trigger, just plain fun shooting and plinking.

Do as you wish, but take it with a grain of salt that completely removing an entire manufacturer of firearms might mean you'll miss out on something you might truly enjoy, even if it's by taking a "chance"!

leadcounsel · Jan 28, 2020

Reno said:
If I didn't "chance it",as it's become clear on this thread, buying a Taurus, I'd never have bought one of the more enjoyable pistols I own of recent. The TX22. Thing is an absolute Glock 44 killer , eats every piece of 22lr ammunition I've put in one of its magazines. Soft shooting, amazing trigger, just plain fun shooting and plinking.

Do as you wish, but take it with a grain of salt that completely removing an entire manufacturer of firearms might mean you'll miss out on something you might truly enjoy, even if it's by taking a "chance"!

Yup, the TX22 is the cats' meow and a perfect .22LR. Just don't bother reading actual user complaints. 8 complaint threads in the first two pages of the Taurus forum.

So many complaints you'll note that the moderators over there - who openly protect Taurus - deleted threads (as they normally do when people complain of Taurus). And it's been out what, 6 months?

Member 34319 · Jan 28, 2020

Noted, thanks for taking the time to post @leadcounsel

Kruel J · Jan 28, 2020

Ok I think this topic has been beaten to death.

titsonritz · Jan 28, 2020

Kruel J said:
Ok I think this topic has been beaten to death.

Yeah and Taurus sucks. :s0139:

nammac · Jan 28, 2020

I still like my Tauri:

Three examples of non-problematic Taurus revolvers...

Dirty Cary · Jan 28, 2020

leadcounsel said:
Yup, the TX22 is the cats' meow and a perfect .22LR. Just don't bother reading actual user complaints. 8 complaint threads in the first two pages of the Taurus forum. So many complaints you'll note that the moderators over there - who openly protect Taurus - deleted threads (as they normally do when people complain of Taurus). And it's been out what, 6 months?

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