not usually. all you're doing is telling them you're there. now they're going to do 1 of 3 things- run away, take cover, or immediately fire on you. you like 1:3 odds?
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Tactically speaking, which is better for home defense, a pistol or a shotgun?
- Thread Starter Joe Link
- Start date
not usually. all you're doing is telling them you're there. now they're going to do 1 of 3 things- run away, take cover, or immediately fire on you. you like 1:3 odds?
How about this plan - I quietly lean over to my dresser, pull out my 1st generation NV goggles, quietly pickup my mossberg 500 and quietly move the safety from safe to fire, then quietly turn on the infrared beam, then put the sling over my shoulders, then reach for my 3" magnum judge thats not tactical at all cause it's the flashiest ss polish you've ever seen, then quietly open my bedroom door and let molly the 70lb razoredge pitbull out. What are my odds then?
How about this plan - I quietly lean over to my dresser, pull out my 1st generation NV goggles, quietly pickup my mossberg 500 and quietly move the safety from safe to fire, then quietly turn on the infrared beam, then put the sling over my shoulders, then reach for my 3" magnum judge thats not tactical at all cause it's the flashiest ss polish you've ever seen, then quietly open my bedroom door and let molly the 70lb razoredge pitbull out. What are my odds then?
odds of what?
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....
Both shotgun and handgun have benefits and drawbacks..whether one is better or worse depends on each persons situation.
In your home defense plan you have to ask yourself....
will you be staying put in a room or will you being clearing your residence/property?
can you dial a cell phone or hold a flashlight while covering an area or person with your firearm or will someone else be there to call 911?
will you have to open doors or wake up/carry sleeping children while clearing?
do you have a light mounted on any of your weapons or will you have to hold one in your other hand?
are you the only one that will need the weapon or will another family member possibly have to use it to defend themselves?
Do you live in a house in the woods or a rowhouse in the city?
Each one of these questions makes one weapon better than the other depending on your answer.
I could go on and on but I think you guys get my point
Both shotgun and handgun have benefits and drawbacks..whether one is better or worse depends on each persons situation.
In your home defense plan you have to ask yourself....
will you be staying put in a room or will you being clearing your residence/property?
can you dial a cell phone or hold a flashlight while covering an area or person with your firearm or will someone else be there to call 911?
will you have to open doors or wake up/carry sleeping children while clearing?
do you have a light mounted on any of your weapons or will you have to hold one in your other hand?
are you the only one that will need the weapon or will another family member possibly have to use it to defend themselves?
Do you live in a house in the woods or a rowhouse in the city?
Each one of these questions makes one weapon better than the other depending on your answer.
I could go on and on but I think you guys get my point
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shot gun
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An AR-15, but if the neighbors are closeby, a shotgun. However, I find a shotgun has a lot of recoil and under stress condition you may do better with your handgun if you practice with the handgun all the time versus the shotgun. I think weekly shotgun practice is a must to get used to the recoil of it. Personally, I don't have much confidence in my shotgun skills versus my handgun, however at a very close range I know the shotgun would be more effective.
If I was living in the countryside, I would have my Lewis Machine & Tool AR-15 loaded with 30 rounds of Hornady .223 75gr Match Hollow point or the 62-68 gr ballistic tip TAP ammo. I have a Quad rail that can be equipped with both an ACOG and Aimpoint micro as well as irons all on one gun. If you add lights and other tacti-cool gear, it would make a great CQB house clearing gun. I bought the 16 inch barrel and was living in Washington at the time. Now, I am in Oregon and real sad I didn't wait so I can get the NFA SBR version. I think a 14 inch or less barrel length would be even more effect for clearing rooms in a house, although I hear marines in Iraq do just fine clearing houses with 16 inch barrel M-4 type AR rifles.
Oh the biggest bummer of moving into a suburban subdivision is that my neighbors are all so close to me, I fear overpenetration. Therefore, my AR-15 is not an option at all. Only exception is hordes of zombies are trying to break down my door.
If I was living in the countryside, I would have my Lewis Machine & Tool AR-15 loaded with 30 rounds of Hornady .223 75gr Match Hollow point or the 62-68 gr ballistic tip TAP ammo. I have a Quad rail that can be equipped with both an ACOG and Aimpoint micro as well as irons all on one gun. If you add lights and other tacti-cool gear, it would make a great CQB house clearing gun. I bought the 16 inch barrel and was living in Washington at the time. Now, I am in Oregon and real sad I didn't wait so I can get the NFA SBR version. I think a 14 inch or less barrel length would be even more effect for clearing rooms in a house, although I hear marines in Iraq do just fine clearing houses with 16 inch barrel M-4 type AR rifles.
Oh the biggest bummer of moving into a suburban subdivision is that my neighbors are all so close to me, I fear overpenetration. Therefore, my AR-15 is not an option at all. Only exception is hordes of zombies are trying to break down my door.
there's no 16" barrels clearing houses in iraq.. most marines pack 20" m16s, though more and more units are getting M4s- which are 14.5"
the 16" barrel is almost excusively civilian, and exist soley to comply with NFA. the only military 16" is the SEAL Recce- and i don't know if they use it much or at all
why would you use an ACOG and a T1 at the same time, and why would you put them on your handguard?
the 16" barrel is almost excusively civilian, and exist soley to comply with NFA. the only military 16" is the SEAL Recce- and i don't know if they use it much or at all
why would you use an ACOG and a T1 at the same time, and why would you put them on your handguard?
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I was thinking the M4s they used were 14.5 with the fixed 1.5" flash hiders, but I am probably wrong. I guess I was just hearing things through the grapevine. Yes, I now recall that marines use 20" M-16s for clearing houses.
I woudl not use the Acog and Aimpoint at the same time. I was just saying the potential is there. I, myself don't have such a setup. I just have an Acog on my rifle and backup irons, which for the time being, I have removed.
I have a long monolithic rail and have the option of a forward grip and a side mount for my Aimpoint micro with my Acog mounted on top. Why, is this useful? Well, lets just say you are in the heat of combat and out of no where an enemy approaches at a range closer than would be comfortable for use with the Acog, I would think rotating the gun and switching to the Aimpoint would be a better option. I have seen some videos online, where people have used the setup and it seemed pretty interesting to me.
Anyhow, I was just showing the potential that a tactical rifle would have over a pistol or shotgun for CQB. Do soldiers deck out their rifles with tacti-cool gear just for the heck of it or is there a purpose? Well, perhaps they do beef up their guns for the cool effect
I woudl not use the Acog and Aimpoint at the same time. I was just saying the potential is there. I, myself don't have such a setup. I just have an Acog on my rifle and backup irons, which for the time being, I have removed.
I have a long monolithic rail and have the option of a forward grip and a side mount for my Aimpoint micro with my Acog mounted on top. Why, is this useful? Well, lets just say you are in the heat of combat and out of no where an enemy approaches at a range closer than would be comfortable for use with the Acog, I would think rotating the gun and switching to the Aimpoint would be a better option. I have seen some videos online, where people have used the setup and it seemed pretty interesting to me.
Anyhow, I was just showing the potential that a tactical rifle would have over a pistol or shotgun for CQB. Do soldiers deck out their rifles with tacti-cool gear just for the heck of it or is there a purpose? Well, perhaps they do beef up their guns for the cool effect
i kept my weapon down to a minimum. i was also not an HSLD 1stOD guy with an-peqs and NV and crap to hang on my stick. some guys run Dr. Optics on top of their ACOGs for CQB, and some of the competition shooters run the Vtac seconday irons at a 45 degree cant down their handguards.
the use of acogs needs to be mission specific. obviously, as you close on the enemy, you're gonna get closer and closer- but in missions where the acog is useful, it's also useful to try to stay as light weight as possible. even though T1s dont weigh much, it's still added weight that's gonna become noticeable after 8 hours of hiking through the wilderness of afganistan, or your own hiking trails stateside.
for door-kicking/home defense/any CQB, i would simply not use an acog. i have two M4s that have aimpoints, and a recce with a low-mag optic, an SPR with 3x9 optic, and a service/target gun with nothing but irons- each has a specific purpose, otherwise i wouldn't need all 5.
the use of acogs needs to be mission specific. obviously, as you close on the enemy, you're gonna get closer and closer- but in missions where the acog is useful, it's also useful to try to stay as light weight as possible. even though T1s dont weigh much, it's still added weight that's gonna become noticeable after 8 hours of hiking through the wilderness of afganistan, or your own hiking trails stateside.
for door-kicking/home defense/any CQB, i would simply not use an acog. i have two M4s that have aimpoints, and a recce with a low-mag optic, an SPR with 3x9 optic, and a service/target gun with nothing but irons- each has a specific purpose, otherwise i wouldn't need all 5.
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I want to weigh in again briefly;
People who live in the country and have no family members can pretty much use whatever the **** they want. No collateral damage besides busted walls.
In the city or 'burbs you've got to really lock down any over penetration or errant rounds. I don't see a carbine being anything more than a ticket to the penn' at home defense ranges.
If you've got a family or houses in close proximity then the power of the round you're using has to be chosen very carefully.
Pistol or shotgun?
A pistol is small, can be used one handed while grappling, can have a high capacity, easily stored in a safe by the bedside, and is easy to reload. The downside is having to extend your arm(s) to use the sights, thus opening you up to a grapple attempt.
A shotgun is large and imposing, the sound of racking it can de-escalate the situation in a fraction of a second, creates massive trauma with the proper load and it makes a damned good club when empty. Plus you can offset the weight and length by point shooting from the hip. Downside for this beast is the slow reload times and low capacity.
The missing factor is the jury. It's well documented that in stressful situations a person is more apt to dump a mag rather than double tap. A pump shotgun takes thought to chamber a round. Two rounds of 00 12ga sounds a **** of a lot better than an entire Glock 17 mag of...what, 15 rounds going into an intruder.
My personal lean is towards a shotgun and yet because of two kids in the house I am using frangible .357 hollowpoints...well, more like cup-points...so that a round sent towards the rooms they're in won't get through the second side of the wall. Is it the best choice? It's the best choice for my situation, and that's what it boils down to.
Edit; I'm not a LEO or .mil and have no practical combat experience. Just a crap-load of reading every side of the story.
People who live in the country and have no family members can pretty much use whatever the **** they want. No collateral damage besides busted walls.
In the city or 'burbs you've got to really lock down any over penetration or errant rounds. I don't see a carbine being anything more than a ticket to the penn' at home defense ranges.
If you've got a family or houses in close proximity then the power of the round you're using has to be chosen very carefully.
Pistol or shotgun?
A pistol is small, can be used one handed while grappling, can have a high capacity, easily stored in a safe by the bedside, and is easy to reload. The downside is having to extend your arm(s) to use the sights, thus opening you up to a grapple attempt.
A shotgun is large and imposing, the sound of racking it can de-escalate the situation in a fraction of a second, creates massive trauma with the proper load and it makes a damned good club when empty. Plus you can offset the weight and length by point shooting from the hip. Downside for this beast is the slow reload times and low capacity.
The missing factor is the jury. It's well documented that in stressful situations a person is more apt to dump a mag rather than double tap. A pump shotgun takes thought to chamber a round. Two rounds of 00 12ga sounds a **** of a lot better than an entire Glock 17 mag of...what, 15 rounds going into an intruder.
My personal lean is towards a shotgun and yet because of two kids in the house I am using frangible .357 hollowpoints...well, more like cup-points...so that a round sent towards the rooms they're in won't get through the second side of the wall. Is it the best choice? It's the best choice for my situation, and that's what it boils down to.
Edit; I'm not a LEO or .mil and have no practical combat experience. Just a crap-load of reading every side of the story.
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One item that seems to be missing from this discussion is a FLASHLIGHT! But, not just any flashlight. I mean one like police use. A small light that puts out 80, 100 or more lumens of light. Imagine this scenario: A house breaker is groping around in the dark. His eyes are adjusted to the darkness. Suddenly a powerful light hits him in his eyes. He would be blinded for a while. That should give you some time to defuse the situation. I was looking at an LED flashlight at Bi-Mart recently ($25.00). It puts out 80 lumens. It has a warning label that states (paraphrasing): "DO NOT SHINE THIS LIGHT INTO YOUR EYES! PERMANENT DAMAGE COULD RESULT!" I think EVERYBODY should have one of these non-lethal items by their bedside. However, if you ever have to use it, hold it to the side, not in front of you. You don't want it to be a target to your body. What do you think of this idea?
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Nice pic cocktailer, always thought you were a guy though.
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+1 for the light, the brighter the better. I'm partial to Surefire but there are others that may be nearly as good and cost less. I like the idea of going down the hall with a good pistol while leaving the shotgun with the wife in the bedroom. Just got mine a nifty little Remington 870 20 gage because she can't handle my 12 gage. Since she is petite, I was able to find a youth-size 20, then shortened the barrel to 18" and added a tritium night sight for relatively little money. No fancy sidesaddle, or light rails, just a basic shotgun. Should be all we need.
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Don't forget the dogs. We live on wooded acreage and two dogs inside the house will not only wake me if entry is attempted, but they'll tell me where the intruder is.
We have a three story house which presents some challenges of its own. There are just the two of us now, and we'll both be in the same room at night so over penetration isn't an issue.
Put me on "list B" of those who don't want to be heard racking a shotgun. If the dogs don't run the BG off I want the element of surprise, but put me on the shotgun list with any size buckshot.
$.02
PS I really want one of the older Police Model Wingmaster 870's. There are a lot of them out there just as there are police trade-in hand guns. I just think they are cool for around $300 or less. Many are kind of beat up due to spending years in a cruiser, but there are some nice ones too.
Here's one on Gunbroker for $250, no reserve and no bids. Link
Pic of it:
We have a three story house which presents some challenges of its own. There are just the two of us now, and we'll both be in the same room at night so over penetration isn't an issue.
Put me on "list B" of those who don't want to be heard racking a shotgun. If the dogs don't run the BG off I want the element of surprise, but put me on the shotgun list with any size buckshot.
$.02
PS I really want one of the older Police Model Wingmaster 870's. There are a lot of them out there just as there are police trade-in hand guns. I just think they are cool for around $300 or less. Many are kind of beat up due to spending years in a cruiser, but there are some nice ones too.
Here's one on Gunbroker for $250, no reserve and no bids. Link
Pic of it:
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According to my wife the image of me in my underware would be so scary that any criminal wishing to retain the use of his eyesight for future attacks against the law would run from the house screaming at near the speed of light trying to create even a minute discontinuity in the persistence of vision. This being the case I've decided that neither a pistol or a shotgun is the favored repellent of choice, and have instead opted for a crotchless thong.
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In my home because I have 3 kids and a wife with bedrooms at each end upstairs id have to say for me my 45 is the best option due to what WOULD be beyond my target. Id hate to accidently pepper someone beyond a intruder. but if you dont have people beyond your target shotgun ALL THE WAY.. I have 3 shotguns and to this day I still dont think theres anything more intimidating then the sound of a shotgun chambering a round..
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