National Sutherland Springs Texas Mass Shooting Baptist Church

[mkwerx]

Maybe this guy thought since Nov 4 was a big nothing he would spark Civ War 2.0 - i hope they crawl up antifas bubblegum over this and finally declare them a domestic terror organisation. This attack may well spawn copycats or *may* be the first in a wave. We don't know. Maybe Vegas was first and the hits keep rolling.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Just in case people are not clear on this:

"According to ABC News, Devin Kelley, the gunman responsible for Sunday's deadly church shooting in south Texas was convicted by a military court in 2012 on charges of assault and aggravated assault on his wife and child."

These charges, under the Lautenberg Amendment, should have prevented Kelley from purchasing any firearms.

"The Lautenberg Amendment makes it a felony for anyone convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence such as an assault or attempted assault on a family member to ship, transport, possess or receive firearms or ammunition. The purpose of this amendment is to get and keep firearms out of the hands of those individuals with domestic violence convictions," writes legal assistance attorney Capt. Jake Yu. "There is no exception for military personnel engaged in official duties."

Texas church shooter should not have been able to purchase firearm, experts say | WFTV

 

[titsonritz]

A lot of people dont know how to zero a rifle, and or are lousy shots. A mag dump takes what, 10 seconds?

If you're real slow.

 

[titsonritz]

Just in case people are not clear on this:

"According to ABC News, Devin Kelley, the gunman responsible for Sunday's deadly church shooting in south Texas was convicted by a military court in 2012 on charges of assault and aggravated assault on his wife and child."

These charges, under the Lautenberg Amendment, should have prevented Kelley from purchasing any firearms.

"The Lautenberg Amendment makes it a felony for anyone convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence such as an assault or attempted assault on a family member to ship, transport, possess or receive firearms or ammunition. The purpose of this amendment is to get and keep firearms out of the hands of those individuals with domestic violence convictions," writes legal assistance attorney Capt. Jake Yu. "There is no exception for military personnel engaged in official duties."

Texas church shooter should not have been able to purchase firearm, experts say | WFTV

What do you mean the system failed?

Good thing there was a rifle around for backup...

 

[Joe13]

He could have got these in a parking lot for all it matters.

More armed good guys will deminish the amount of "tragities" we see or at the least minimize it as best we can imo.

 

[nammac]

15 empty magazines were found. 450 and only 50 hit? Sounds fishy. Also sounds fishy he had that much.

So, the last news conference at 4:00 PM PST with the local authorities did clarify that there were 15 empty 30 round magazines found at the scene. They also stated that one little boy had been shot 5 times...

So, until we are made privy to all the details, it's a bit difficult to extrapolate any of the minimal information we've been fed at this point...

 

[etrain16]

A little more info on the good guy with a gun - he was a former NRA instructor. So not only did an NRA member not shoot up the church, it was an NRA member that stopped the rat bastard.

Getting harder for people to blame the NRA for these things, especially when NRA members are the ones that stop them.

Man who shot Texas church gunman shares his story

 

[titsonritz]

A little more info on the good guy with a gun - he was a former NRA instructor. So not only did an NRA member not shoot up the church, it was an NRA member that stopped the rat bastard.

Getting harder for people to blame the NRA for these things, especially when NRA members are the ones that stop them.

Man who shot Texas church gunman shares his story

Had to load mags? Oops, bet he keeps them loaded now.

 

[nwslopoke]

What could have been the "up side" of this best dad of the years plan? Kill the mother and in-laws then live happily ever after with the kid like no one would put the clue of some random disgusting fatbody driving the father of the years, truck? I think even though he was wearing some sort of body armor after he finished what he wanted to do he planned to leave the kid a orphan.

My take is he was assigned as a supply clerk or something similar in the USAF. He couldn't even hack that. The charges against him apparently blocked him from buying guns at some point. Isn't part 2 of perjuring or lying of the 4473 supposed to lead to some sort of follow up? They want stronger BGC but no one is following up on the current system. Maybe it would work if they actually used it properly.

 

[Boboclown]

So if the mags were already loaded the shooting would have ended earlier? My mags are loaded. Even for the AK (except the 5 rd mags). Though I'm nowhere near where a mass shooting would happen (guess that's why not a lot happen here) you never know when you need the.

For polymer mags I switch them around.

 

[jbett98]

The US Air Force is now claiming that they screwed up and didn't inform the FBI about his domestic violence charges, which would have prevented him from legally buying a firearm.

 

[etrain16]

Had to load mags? Oops, bet he keeps them loaded now.

The gun was locked in his safe - not everyone keeps loaded mags right there. May have been a hunting rifle/bolt gun - not necessarily the kind of gun folks may keep loaded and ready to go. I'm still waiting to hear what kind of rifle it was - that still hasn't been confirmed yet.

 

[RicInOR]

<broken link removed>

And here it is... Most media outlets are saying the air force failed to update the FBI.

Seems the Air Force admitted to it.

How will the media spin this?

The news media just announced that the Airforce office of special investigations (in Holloman AFB) failed to report his convictions to the FBI data base.

I can't edit a post to include a new quote
from Jbett98>
"The US Air Force is now claiming that they screwed up and didn't inform the FBI about his domestic violence charges, which would have prevented him from legally buying a firearm. "

 

[Argonaut]

<broken link removed>

I suggested that early in the day long before the information broke.(post #152) I was never impressed by the Airforce OSI but didn't know it was there responsibly to do the notification.......would have thought it would have been a JAG job.

 

[Koda]

Read on cbsnews the good guy shot him twice, one in the leg and one in the torso...

 

[jbett98]

Just read this on the 1911 Forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by azguy1911
Do we know that the good guy did indeed kill the bad guy ?

Gunwriter (Shotgun News, Guns N Ammo, et.al.) David Fortier states the following:

Quote:
I wrote this up so folks don't have to search through the entire big thread to find out what happened
Multiple updates

According to initial reports the gunman drove to the store across from the church and exited his vehicle. He was dressed in all black, with face mask and wearing a ballistic vest. He was armed with a Ruger 5.56x45mm AR rifle equipped with an inexpensive red dot sight, white light, sling and a vertical grip. He began shooting walking towards the church, moved to the right of the church and continued firing and then entered the church shooting. He fired as he walked to the front of the church, stopped, turned and continued shooting as he walked back out. It is believed his rifle was loaded with Hornady TAP or VMAX ammunition based upon a loaded cartridge left at the scene. 23 people were killed in the church, two outside the church and one died at a hospital. 20 more were wounded. Ages of the victims range from 5 to 72 years old.

A neighbor heard the gunfire and responded by grabbing an AR-15 rifle and taking up a shooting position. He fired on the gunman as he exited the church. It appears the gunman was hit by the armed citizen, possibly in the neck, as he dropped his rifle, a Ruger AR, and fled to his vehicle. The armed citizen continued to engage the gunman attempting to stop him and prevent him from fleeing. He fired at least one shot which blew out the back window of the vehicle. The shooter drove away at a high rate of speed. In order to prevent the gunman from escaping and causing further harm the armed citizen flagged down a vehicle. The armed citizen quickly informed the driver of the vehicle, a pick-up truck, the situation and entered the vehicle. The driver of the pick-up truck set out in pursuit of the fleeing gunman while contacting the police via his cell phone. During the pursuit the driver of the pick-up closed the distance with the fleeing gunman while reaching speeds of 95 mph. The pick-up truck driver was able to get within a few feet of the fleeing gunman's vehicle, which then slowed, before the gunman lost control of his vehicle and went off the road at an intersection.

The armed citizen exited the pick-up and covered the gunman's vehicle with his rifle to prevent the gunman's escape. The driver of the pick-up stated the gunman made no movements inside his vehicle. The driver of the truck placed his vehicle in park and informed the police of the gunman's location. The police arrived on location approximately 5 to 7 minutes later. The gunman died at the scene, and as the driver of the truck stated he made no movements and there were no shots fired for the 5 to 7 minutes before police arrived. Evidence indicates he bled out and died from a gunshot wound or wounds inflicted by the armed citizen. Police stated the gunman's vehicle contained multiple firearms and he may have been headed to another location to continue his shooting spree, but was killed instead.


The shooter, Devin Patrick Kelley, was 26 years old, father of two. High School classmates of his are quoted as saying he was an outcast who preached "atheism" and said "anyone who believes in God is stupid". He served in the US Air Force from 2009 to 2013 and was Court-Martialed and discharged in 2014 after assaulting his wife and child and serving 12 months in the brig. Under Federal Law a Domestic Violence conviction would prohibit him from legally owning a firearm but evidently was not disqualified as he purchased his rifle at an Academy store. So, for a motive he was a militant atheist who hated Christians. As a militant atheist me might have ties to the Left but that remains to be proven.

Without a doubt the armed citizen is a hero who likely saved many more lives by his quick thinking and willingness to step in and take action. His ability to properly employ a long gun against an armed and moving gunman while under great stress saved lives and put an end to the shooting spree. His actions demonstrate how a legally owned firearm can be used to save lives if the person behind the gun has the mettle and ability to properly put it to use.
FWIW - I don't know what kind of contacts he has in TX LEO community, but they must be pretty extensive. __________________
Quote:

 

[WasrNwarpaint]

here we go the spin has begun

its not because antifa declared war this weekend and he is social warrior, with ties to antifa, or that he is a christian hating left wing nut....

its because he was in a domestic dispute with his ex mother in law

ya thats why he killed everyone else

as I said in a previous post this guy is antifa and despite the FBI trying to scrub the details then spin like the vegas
more proof found hes antifa ...
"he is registered antifa" on his voter registration card UAF
... unite against facism

see video here HookTube

 

[ZigZagZeke]

A little more info on the good guy with a gun - he was a former NRA instructor. So not only did an NRA member not shoot up the church, it was an NRA member that stopped the rat bastard.

Getting harder for people to blame the NRA for these things, especially when NRA members are the ones that stop them.

Man who shot Texas church gunman shares his story

"The man some call a hero for engaging in a shootout with the Texas church gunman is a former National Rifle Association instructor.

Stephen Willeford says in an interview with KHBS/KHOG television in Arkansas that he was at home in Sutherland Springs when his daughter heard gunfire at the church.

Willeford says he retrieved his rifle, loaded it and ran barefoot to the church. He says: "I kept hearing the shots, one after another, very rapid shots ... and I knew every one of those shots represented someone."

Willeford says he hid behind a pickup truck and exchanged fire with the gunman, adding: "I know I hit him."

The gunman, Devin Kelley, got into his vehicle and fled. Willeford says he ran to a pickup truck and asked the driver, later identified as Johnnie Langendorff, to help him.

They sped after the gunman. Kelley's vehicle hit a road sign and flipped into a roadside ditch.

Willeford says he got out of the truck, perched his rifle on the truck's rooftop and yelled, "get out of the truck," but saw no movement. Law enforcement came to the scene. They believe the gunman took his own life."

I doubt that the LEOs are right that the gunman killed himself. I saw another report that said that the gunman called his father as he was fleeing and told him that he'd been hit and didn't think he would make it. I think our hero NRA member fatally wounded him and he died going down the road.

 

[h4344]

Interview with the man who exchanged fire with the shooter using his AR15.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

The news media just announced that the Airforce office of special investigations (in Holloman AFB) failed to report his convictions to the FBI data base.

Okay, so now I can congratulate the Governor of Texas. It seems Texas had its s**t together when they denied a conceal-carry permit to the shooter. It was apparently the Feds that screwed the pooch in this case.

Sounds like a great argument for more Federal regulations! Amirite?