Suggestion on controversial threads

[bbbass]

Controversy breeds debate, and thus further interest. Maybe it should be more tolerated, or even encouraged?????

IMO, debate is good, yah. Controversial topics can be good, but they can also lead to warring, and are often utilized by trolls. The controversies mentioned here are the recent ones characterized by such warring. It's not the controversial subject in and of itself that has been a problem, other than non-firearm related politics, but members breaking the forum rules.

BTW... I am a passionate person. I like passionate, respectful, debate. But I have been much to quik to get my dander up when someone gets personal. I've been suckered by trolls into losing my cool and breaking said rules. As @JoeLink has said, that's on me. Believe me I can flame with the best, but it makes for an uncomfortable atmosphere for others. Imagine sitting at the table with arguing relatives... not too much fun eh? That's a problem when trying to keep new visitors to the site, plus it's a problem with retention for existing members.

I don't visit any other forums, blogs, etc. This has been a good hobby for me... one that I'd like to stay with and look eagerly forward to spending time doing.

 

[Mikej]

Imagine sitting at the table with arguing relatives... not too much fun eh? That's a problem when trying to keep new visitors to the site, plus it's a problem with retention for existing members.

You couldn't have described the issue better.

 

[DuneHopper]

Controversy breeds debate, and thus further interest. Maybe it should be more tolerated, or even encouraged?????

I can tell you first hand, it simply rips the group apart. The format here simply is not designed to support this. Watching good pals and friends in here, then turn and name call, accuse and demoralize all based over an opinion. And all a mod has to do is nod at the topic and it explodes, OK yes I am being slightly over dramatic. A week or so ago before the clamp down a mod member on here and me that normally got along great got into a back and forth and pretty much screwed what was previously there. Things we said that are hard to remove and why the site will heal, never quite the same when people dig at your passions. So I say, no way, hell no.

Probably odd for some to hear me say it, as I am very passionate in my rights, but to debate why?........since NWFA is far from the only group among hundreds that will discuss topics like this. If it switches back, I would gone in a heart beat, not worth the stress or friends we can lose not to mention how it makes us all look not just NWFA, but us as gun owners. Doesn't mean at all I do notstand outside this site for all I have said previously here. Just really people at what cost do we want to debate each other?


DH

 

[Gator Monroe]

In the current political enciornment and the fact that most of the Pacific Northwest is Deep Blue or Blue (Nor Cal / Oregon / WA St. ) and The Libs have their sights on the big City and towns in Still Red Idaho I feel that allowing a little more back & forth is the decent thing to do ...

 

[alv7722]

I can tell you first hand, it simply rips the group apart. The format here simply is not designed to support this. Watching good pals and friends in here, then turn and name call, accuse and demoralize all based over an opinion. And all a mod has to do is nod at the topic and it explodes, OK yes I am being slightly over dramatic. A week or so ago before the clamp down a mod member on here and me that normally got along great got into a back and forth and pretty much screwed what was previously there. Things we said that are hard to remove and why the site will heal, never quite the same when people dig at your passions. So I say, no way, hell no.

Probably odd for some to hear me say it, as I am very passionate in my rights, but to debate why?........since NWFA is far from the only group among hundreds that will discuss topics like this. If it switches back, I would gone in a heart beat, not worth the stress or friends we can lose not to mention how it makes us all look not just NWFA, but us as gun owners. Doesn't mean at all I do notstand outside this site for all I have said previously here. Just really people at what cost do we want to debate each other?


DH

Understood, and agree. But debate can also bring about consensus, which we direly need going forward. Guess it could be a matter of degrees??

 

[Gator Monroe]

Weighing Forum/Board Unity and MOD ADMIN & Stealth Mod Street Cred against angering one side or the other politically or the scaring away of potential future posters popping in for a look is a house of cards built on a mine field ...

 

[Kruel J]

Weighing Forum/Board Unity and MOD ADMIN & Stealth Mod Street Cred against angering one side or the other politically or the scaring away of potential future posters popping in for a look is a house of cards built on a mine field ...

Not sure what you mean here. Certainly no "street cred" here. We are just guys like everyone else, that have a blue banner under their name and have agreed to uphold the site rules. Which actually I find so bizzare how many times we as a mod team let SO MUCH go that technically breaks the forum rules. Yet in our lighthanded moderation we are still accused of being heavy handed. It's a crapshoot.

I've said this before, and again now. No matter what we do to help keep NWFA a place that people like to visit, we will undoubtedly make some angry. It's a lose-lose. No right answer. Someone is going to get mad.

And yeah, even we tiptoe the line and even sometimes "technically" break the rules.

I told @Joe Link from day one all the way up til now....I am a member FIRST and a mod second. I think that's the way it should be. And that's the way I will ALWAYS be.

 

[Ura-Ki]

The way I see it, those who have a problem with the Moderators here, probably have the need to be moderated! Every one else gets by just fine with no problems and no real need for moderatin at all! Says something don't it!

 

[Kruel J]

The way I see it, those who have a problem with the Moderators here, probably have the need to be moderated! Every one else gets by just fine with no problems and no real need for moderatin at all! Says something don't it!

Absolutely. How many times have I "moderated" you brother? ZERO. How about the rest of you in this thread? If it has EVEN happened, I could probably add it up on two fingers. We literally "moderate" so little when it comes to our members and what they say. I mostly fix misspelled thread titles, remind people to add a price to their classified ad, move threads to where they belong and merge threads that are duplicates. Yep, I do throw out warning shots, I DO close threads after multiple warnings have been given and I do my best to keep trolls at bay.

Shoot, this very thread has "drifts" and even the swear filter bypassed. Yet...no moderation. Go figure.

You know how many "regular" members I've banned? ZERO. ZIP. NOT A ONE.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I got moderated one time, It was a Cold Wintry Tuesday 8.47 P.M. January 2014 Did I pitch a Fit? No! I said sorry, won't happen again and let it go, I didn't get butt hurt over it, i didn't let it get under my skin and rot me out on the insides, and I didn't hold a grudge/still don't! I appreciate the job our friends ( who are also moderators) handle things in a fair and even handed manor! Maybe if more folks took the time to think before they post, they wouldn't have need of moderating, hence no problems with the mod squad!

 

[Mygrainman]

I've been modded more than once...
Been guilty of posting an upper in the rifle section, and effed up a few of my ad titles. Those pesky mods were all over it!

 

[The Heretic]

I've been modded more than once...
Been guilty of posting an upper in the rifle section, and effed up a few of my ad titles. Those pesky mods were all over it!

I got moderated in the SurvivalistBoard forums for using asterisks with the first letter of a bad word. They threatened to wash my mouth out with soap and put me on probation.



Apparently they never forget that - it is still on my record there.

 

[justcuz]

I read dune's inital commentary almost immediately after it was posted, watched as it was immediately locked down by moderators, read JoeL's "announcement", as well as read the 112 true confessions in this thread, what follows is an observation...

First, let me say as an individual who has walked a great many miles throughout the world's countries during my life span and tend to speak my mind during discussions on a myriad of subjects near and dear.
That stated, I also am acknowledging myself but a newbie to THIS forum, which I presumed was a 'discussion' type firearm forum where an exchange of various firearm information could be discussed freely amongst like minded individuals.

However, while the site's posted mission statement in the banner states:
ABOUT NORTHWEST FIREARMS
We believe the 2nd Amendment is best defended through grass-roots organization, education, and advocacy centered around individual gun owners. It is our mission to encourage, organize, and support these efforts throughout Oregon, Washington, and Idaho.

What I discerned over the couple months, instead of significant discussion to encourage, organize, and support...I have found a backpage replacement.

If an individual tenders an opinion that goes against the "good olde" group's preconceived perceptions on a subject, then that individual, by members and moderators alike, is publicly humiliated being called a troll, subjected to degradation type postings, etc. [sidebar: yet I have seen very little objective rebuttal evidence to denounce those opinion being presented as false or inappropriate?]


This type of mentality meets and is in the spirit and intent of the site's purpose of "encouraging" ?

Finally, the point I am making is, what is the thrust of this site...It's mission statement or replace backpage?

If the owner, JoeL wishes to promote the mission statement, then viable alternative position discussions must be tolerated and the flaming and degradation of those stating opinions must not be tolerated by those overseeing the daily proceedings of the site.

 

[Lazyfaire]

POTG are people of passionate views, which in and of itself is fine by me. But when they turn that passion against others they only 'know' because of this site they sometimes get too personal and attack these people. I've felt it but I just turned away from the computer. But I have seen someone (a female new to the site) castigated because she 'dared' to have an opinion that someone else disagreed with. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and a conversation can be a great thing, but to denigrate someone else's opinion with some vicious or impolite responses is neither grownup nor welcome in a society of equals.

When I drove for a company I was told that maybe that a$$hole deserved the finger, but the person off to the side who sees you do it didn't and will remember the name on the side of the truck! When 2 people disagree how many of us are on the outside looking in and not responding?

I have nothing but respect for the work that I have seen the moderators of this forum do. Not real sure why some don't. This is not a club, this is a forum for everyone to interact with others, ask honest questions in a search for information, or to just enjoy reading other posts. I would like to see that continue. My 2cents.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Its pretty simple :
Be excellent to each other...
No posting of Divisive , negative , offensive or inappropriate content...
Actually , even the ruling on religious and non firearm political content can fall under the above rules...

You can almost say anything here on the forum in the various sub sections...
As long as it said respectfully and goes by the above rules.
Many times a post is right there on the line or even over the line...
But when the post is responded to appropriately by other members...it can slide , so to speak.

When the following happens :
Name calling...
Negative broad blanket statements are made...
False assumptions...
Attacking of a fellow member...
Use of a proscribed term or word...
Blatant commentary that goes against the forum rules...

It can cause , disharmony in the forum and have the tread closed.
It also makes us as forum members , the forum itself and gun owners look bad.

Many folks visit this site....what you post can be seen as both :
How we at NWFA feel / think as a whole
And how gun owners think and feel as a whole.

What you do and say , when it involves firearms , be it on a open forum , at a range , in a shop , while you carry , go shooting or hunting , etc... like it or not , represents all gun owners ...
We need to be the best "ambassadors " and or stewards of the 2nd Amendment , guns and gun owners , that we can be.

Which can be done...simply be being excellent to each other.
Andy

 

[Stomper]

Controversial topics can be good, I can flame with the best, but it makes for an uncomfortable atmosphere for others.

Absolutely. How many times have I "moderated" you brother? ZERO. How about the rest of you in this thread? If it has EVEN happened, I could probably add it up on two fingers. We literally "moderate" so little when it comes to our members and what they say. I mostly fix misspelled thread titles, remind people to add a price to their classified ad, move threads to where they belong and merge threads that are duplicates. Yep, I do throw out warning shots, I DO close threads after multiple warnings have been given and I do my best to keep trolls at bay.

Shoot, this very thread has "drifts" and even the swear filter bypassed. Yet...no moderation. Go figure.

You know how many "regular" members I've banned? ZERO. ZIP. NOT A ONE.

For all that is good and holy, PLEASE stop my suffering and end it for me!!



———> Stomper!!

 

[DuneHopper]

Seems there are several member types.

1. Those that follow the rules.
2. Those that bend the rules at times ( me )
   
3. those that intentionally break the rules.
4. And those that only post what they can in hopes someone will break 1,2, and 3 and get a fight on.

It amounts to what some would say having a drink in bar, here someone might insult you or cuss at you,
and well now what is the next response? Bar says no fighting, or they will kick you out.

This site operates no different then any other business would, not saying right or wrong, just how it is.
If you are not within the rules of the establishment, you only have yourself to blame if trouble ensues.

I have bent and broken the rules here a couple times, yet I am still here. That just goes to show you the Mods get it.
They know its hard to switch off our passions on Gun control and the underlying problem, so rather then punish
they give a push or what is often in my case a shove . It also means just because they are light handed that doesn't mean abuse the system or them.

I am not going to get into what I agree or disagree about this site, its not mine. I didn't make the rules.
And thats what we need to focus on, not feeling judge, but letting them run it how they want. Just like a restaurant
don't like the service one can leave. Harsh as it sounds there are no other alternatives, not in the rules, there is no
changing it to fit everyone. Again I am not taking sides I am a member here and agree in the position in my personal life
with many of those that will and do debate here, but we have choices, and the rules do make some choices for us,
we also have the choice to stay and observe or not observe them and possibly face the consequences.

 

[bbbass]

How many times have I "moderated" you brother?

So many times that I am surprised I am still here. Again, sorry to have made more work for you Brother!!

MEA CULPA

 

[alv7722]

. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and a conversation can be a great thing, but to denigrate someone else's opinion with some vicious or impolite responses is neither grownup nor welcome in a society of equals.

.

Sometimes, an opinion deserves to be denigrated. It can be part of an educational process. I think the key is to do it without denigrating the person!!

 

[The Heretic]

Sometimes, an opinion deserves to be denigrated. It can be part of an educational process. I think the key is to do it without denigrating the person!!

I.E., attack the message, not the messenger.

I do not always follow this rule - especially with the current occupants of the White House - but I try.