Suggested Shotgun Shells for Home Defense?

[Geardo]

Now yer talkin! Great plan!!!!!

I guess I should have clarified that earlier in the thread. My bad! I don't really have anything worth stealing in my house, and my truck is 15 years old. Only things worth dieing over will be in the room behind me. (Well off to the side but you get the idea)

Situation gets more complicated with kids, but I am going to armor my house pretty well. And try to get one with a layout that is defensible without having to move through the whole house.

The Last thing I want to do is shoot a gun in the house. My poor doggers would never forgive me! He already has noise phobia.

 

[Tully Mars]

At the few feet distance within most homes......(15 or 20) the shot hasn't left the cup yet. Anything will be adaquate. I use mostly birdshot but have some buckshot in the tube as well

Agree.
I use #4 shot in both of our bedside shottys.

 

[DirectDrive]

Agree.
I use #4 shot in both of our bedside shottys.

That should work well if ever needed.

Although it's being driven much faster, the Claymore anti-personnel mine uses 3.2 mm
steel shot, which equates to about #5 shot.
Something to think about for all you slug and buck fans.

 

[Geardo]

That should work well if ever needed.

Although it's being driven much faster, the Claymore anti-personnel mine uses 3.2 mm
steel shot, which equates to about #5 shot.
Something to think about for all you slug and buck fans.

Good point. What is the velocity difference?

Looks like about 2-3 more # of pellets, but obviously much more spread out.

 

[DirectDrive]

Good point. What is the velocity difference?

Looks like about 2-3 more # of pellets, but obviously much more spread out.

Claymore
700ea 3.2mm @ 4,000 fps

Shotshell
#5 212ea @ 1300 fps (2-3/4")

 

[Geardo]

Claymore
700ea 3.2mm @ 4,000 fps

Shotshell
#5 212ea @ 1300 fps (2-3/4")

Whoa. That is cookin!

 

[Argonaut]

Claymores are devastating weapons designed to take out a squad at a time.

 

[DirectDrive]

Whoa. That is cookin!

I wouldn't want to be a bad guy "in the wire" when those things went off.

 

[DLS]

Claymores are nasty things, but those steel pellets lose velocity pretty quickly so are really only highly reliable to 50 yards or so. After that the shot is slowing down pretty quickly and many times the pellets still have epoxy chunks stuck to them making them fly erratically. The shot is held in place in the mine body by embedding in an epoxy resin. While the manual states 100 meters ... that only provides something like a 10% incapacitation rate at that distance.

I too am a fan of a barricade position and #4 or #5 shot for home defense. The longest straight line in my home is 42 feet, but that's downstairs. Up stairs it's 2/3rds of that. Even though I'm in a semi-rural area and don't really have to worry about over penetration it doesn't hurt to have this in mind, especially if you are ever questioned about your choice of arms and ammo. Additionally I want a fairly loose shot column if possible. At the ranges I would be shooting having a bit of a ragged edge to my shot column might be helpful ... as a stress filled situation will only degrade human performance. So if I miss center of mass, there is still a chance for some hits on the edge. While they may not stop the bad actions, it will distract the BG enough to cause him to pause and allow me a better chance of a follow up shot or some other action to deescalate the situation.

I have no intention of clearing my house with an active BG present. Not only does that require you to leave cover and concealment, but separates you from the others you are trying to protect. There are cases where guys go and clear the house and find nothing. Upon returning to the others left behind, they get shot since they left those behind with a method of protection. Stick together and this can't happen. BTW I've had military and police level training in clearing a house ... and I will not do it if there is any way to avoid it. Having no backup and the above mentioned leaving of cover are the primary reasons I see this as a disaster waiting to happen. Remember, protecting property does not rise to the level that justifies use of deadly force. Pretty much only in defense of life or limb can lethal force be used. So if you go into a room that is being burgled and then shoot the person you may face charges and conviction, especially if you were in a protected position and left it.

It sucks ... I don't agree with it so don't shoot the messenger here ... but there are a lot of guys who get jambed up because of just this situation.

If you are in a barricade position and the BG continues to move in your direction you have a much better chance showing the lethal force triad (ability, opportunity, jeopardy) was in fact at play. If you are clearing your house it could be interpreted as "hunting down the BG".

So I have a barricade position where I can get everybody into a safe place, and then I take a position at the end of a long hall facing the top of the stairs. Everybody I'm concerned about is behind the firing point and the top of the stairs is covered and I'm behind cover except for about 4 inches of barrel. If the BG continues up the stairs after verbal warnings and listening to the slack slack sound of a pump gun, well then he will probably not be happy as I will do what is necessary to stop his attack.

 

[DeanMk]

Claymore
700ea 3.2mm @ 4,000 fps

Shotshell
#5 212ea @ 1300 fps (2-3/4")

I looked up some of the stats you've given.
#5 is listed at 3.05mm but #4 is listed at 3.3mm, so @ 3.2mm, it might be more accurate to say the shot pellets used are almost #4 size.
It takes 169 #4 lead pellets to make an ounce and a quarter, but the number increases to 240 when dealing with steel.
700 steel "almost #4's" would be approximately 3.5 ounces of shot charge.
That's a pretty big shot charge at a blazing velocity.
Pretty easy to see why Claymore's are so effective at what they do.



Dean

 

[Argonaut]

Claymores are nasty things, but those steel pellets lose velocity pretty quickly so are really only highly reliable to 50 yards or so. After that the shot is slowing down pretty quickly and many times the pellets still have epoxy chunks stuck to them making them fly erratically. The shot is held in place in the mine body by embedding in an epoxy resin. While the manual states 100 meters ... that only provides something like a 10% incapacitation rate at that distance.

I too am a fan of a barricade position and #4 or #5 shot for home defense. The longest straight line in my home is 42 feet, but that's downstairs. Up stairs it's 2/3rds of that. Even though I'm in a semi-rural area and don't really have to worry about over penetration it doesn't hurt to have this in mind, especially if you are ever questioned about your choice of arms and ammo. Additionally I want a fairly loose shot column if possible. At the ranges I would be shooting having a bit of a ragged edge to my shot column might be helpful ... as a stress filled situation will only degrade human performance. So if I miss center of mass, there is still a chance for some hits on the edge. While they may not stop the bad actions, it will distract the BG enough to cause him to pause and allow me a better chance of a follow up shot or some other action to deescalate the situation.

I have no intention of clearing my house with an active BG present. Not only does that require you to leave cover and concealment, but separates you from the others you are trying to protect. There are cases where guys go and clear the house and find nothing. Upon returning to the others left behind, they get shot since they left those behind with a method of protection. Stick together and this can't happen. BTW I've had military and police level training in clearing a house ... and I will not do it if there is any way to avoid it. Having no backup and the above mentioned leaving of cover are the primary reasons I see this as a disaster waiting to happen. Remember, protecting property does not rise to the level that justifies use of deadly force. Pretty much only in defense of life or limb can lethal force be used. So if you go into a room that is being burgled and then shoot the person you may face charges and conviction, especially if you were in a protected position and left it.

It sucks ... I don't agree with is so don't shoot the messenger here ... but there are a lot of guys who get jambed up because of just this situation.

If you are in a barricade position and the BG continues to move in your direction you have a much better chance showing the lethal force triad (ability, opportunity, jeopardy) was in fact at play. If you are clearing your house it could be interpreted as "hunting down the BG".

So I have a barricade position where I can get everybody into a safe place, and then I take a position at the end of a long hall facing the top of the stairs. Everybody I'm concerned about is behind the firing point and the top of the stairs is covered and I'm behind cover except for about 4 inches of barrel. If the BG continues up the stairs after verbal warnings and listening to the slack slack sound of a pump gun, well then he will probably not be happy as I will do what is necessary to stop his attack.

The golden words "necessary to stop the attack" .........you speak like a well trained thinking person.

 

[DLS]

This is getting pretty picky ... but I'm pretty sure that the claymore shot is sized in English units, 1/8 inch to be precise. This is 3.175mm. These things have been in the inventory for a long time, prior to the metrification of much of our manufacturing.

I heard told, which means I've never seen verification of this "fact", that the shot was actually ball bearings that did not meet quality requirements to be used as a bearing.

 

[HB of CJ]

Shotgun engagement ranges inside ones home may be very short including up to contact range. It will all happen so fast it is possible one or two rounds will completely miss. Where does the buckshot end up flying and embedding?

In my situation it might be a much as 4 possibly 5 interior walls struck at an high angle or as little as two open exterior windows. Thick floors. Thick roof. Very thin sheet rock and 2x4 walls. Even dense pattern bird shot will be dangerous.

Number 1 buckshot. 3" shell. Maximum load both in pellets and powder. 12 inch shotgun barrel. Muzzle velocity around 1000 feet per second. But the odds of ever having to defend your interior castle are very very low. Fortunately.

All Oregon State Laws, US Code Laws, NFA Laws and BATFE rules apply.

 

[DeanMk]

This is getting pretty picky ... but I'm pretty sure that the claymore shot is sized in English units, 1/8 inch to be precise. This is 3.175mm. These things have been in the inventory for a long time, prior to the metrification of much of our manufacturing.

I heard told, which means I've never seen verification of this "fact", that the shot was actually ball bearings that did not meet quality requirements to be used as a bearing.

Hey, stop pickin' on me ( ).
#4 = .13"
#5 = .12"
So an 1/8" bearing ball would fall right in between...and that makes sense. It's just that it was originally presented as an approximation of #5 shot, thus my prior post.
Interesting example of how people relate things, too.
Everything I've always heard about Claymore's, even from ex-military guys, have always mentioned the mines are filled with BB's.
I suppose this is a case of "BB" being a general term for any small pellet, rather than an actual round ball of .177" diameter.


Dean

 

[DirectDrive]

Hey, stop pickin' on me ( ).
#4 = .13"
#5 = .12"
So an 1/8" bearing ball would fall right in between...and that makes sense. It's just that it was originally presented as an approximation of #5 shot, thus my prior post.
Interesting example of how people relate things, too.
Everything I've always heard about Claymore's, even from ex-military guys, have always mentioned the mines are filled with BB's.
I suppose this is a case of "BB" being a general term for any small pellet, rather than an actual round ball of .177" diameter.


Dean

I thought about it pretty much all night long, and the Claymore projectile just seemed closer to #5 shot in diameter. (it's in-between)
I've also thought about it some, just today.
I'm going to try to get some sleep tonight.

When I was reloading lead shotshells, I liked #5 for ducks if I could find it.
One time with Federal Premiums (copper plated #4 and buffered) a hunting buddy took out a drake mallard flying so high, I couldn't believe it.
That thing hit the water in front of us and the geyser was blood red.
He hit it right in the heart.
This would be a perfect self defense load.

The buffering agent is a polyurethane powder.
It compresses, so as not to run the pressure up and it keeps the shot rounder which produces a tighter pattern.
Not needed with steel shot.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I thought about it pretty much all night long, and the Claymore projectile just seemed closer to #5 shot in diameter. (it's in-between)
I've also thought about it some, just today.
I'm going to try to get some sleep tonight.

When I was reloading lead shotshells, I liked #5 for ducks if I could find it.
One time with Federal Premiums (copper plated #4 and buffered) a hunting buddy took out a drake mallard flying so high, I couldn't believe it.
That thing hit the water in front of us and the geyser was blood red.
He hit it right it the heart.
This would be a perfect self defense load.

The buffering agent is a polyurethane powder.
It compresses, so as not to run the pressure up and it keeps the shot rounder which produces a tighter pattern.
Not needed with steel shot.

Legend has it they used those against the kamikazes back WWII.














not really

 

[DeanMk]

Winchester has been doing that since the 1960's.
I still don't have a problem with #6 Duck and Pheasant load, but that's because I can also use it to hunt upland with.
YMMV.

 

[DLS]

You could do far worse with #6's that's for sure!

 

[DirectDrive]

Legend has it they used those against the kamikazes back WWII.














not really

Napoleon used grape shot in his cannon.
Early Claymore.
Maybe someone could confirm the shot size ?

 

[Geardo]

He hit it right in the heart.
This would be a perfect self defense load.

Duck=/human