Desperate times for .410 bore shotgun shells

[edzz]

Um, ya, I don't like ordering ammo that I don't need. I want it to be a "feel good" buy, kind of like getting that new treasure you find at a gun show, that thing that you don't "need" but feels like a score.

Kind of like the Springfield M-6 I scored a few years ago, .22 Hornet over .410 that is impossible to find reasonable priced ammo for, good thing its more of a wall hanger for me than a shooter.

I guess i should feel good that I have adequate supplies of ammo for my Seecamp and 1908 Vest Pocket.
At least "affordable" 300 BLK is more available, for now...

 

[NobullSKS]

My father in-law is at his work around

 

[Greg S]

I've got 410 loaders ect but the weak point of 410s is the hull. You only get 1-2 good reloads out of one.

To remedy this, I just ordered some 410 brass hulls. Also heard of using 303 British and 444 Marlin brass.

 

[Deavis]

Im all over the brass option!

 

[Greg S]

Midway has them in stock right now. Brass has more internal volume than plastic hulls. The internal diameter is larger than plastic so you need to use larger wads. Read the comments/reviews for the item.

 

[gmerkt]

The slight shocker was that 20ga was in short supply, and most of what I saw was crazy high.
Picked up a box of magtech 20ga birdshot just because I didn't know it existed. Promptly put it back down when I saw the $22 Price tag.

Over here, 20 ga. is available. Target loads are $10 to $11 a box. Field loads are +/- $20. But way, way more available than .410.

 

[gmerkt]

Im all over the brass option!

Midway has them in stock right now. Brass has more internal volume than plastic hulls. The internal diameter is larger than plastic so you need to use larger wads. Read the comments/reviews for the item.

I recommend the brass hull loading manual available from Ballistic Products, Inc.

 

[gmerkt]

Yesterday, I was able to get out to the trap field with my grandson Anthony. We fired off 20 ga. shot shells until we ran out of clay birds to throw. I also took along one of my .410's, to test out my hand-made, wax sealed shells. Out of 13, I had four misfires. Those that fired did well, went off with authority, and atomized a few clay birds.

But there was an obvious problem with priming. The 209 primers that I'd used on Remington hulls seated with difficulty. This morning, I remembered that some Remington hulls used to take 57 size primers. Which I have a sleeve of. I got these out, yet they were too small. So I started looking into this issue online. It seems that Remington used multiple primer arrangements with plastic hulls over the years. Including a size 69, which was just for .410. So I won't be monkeying around with Remington hulls for the time being.

A couple of weeks ago, I sent for a bag of 100 Fiocchi primed hulls, 2-1/2 inch, that's all they had, no 3's. But nevermind, I can get a useful load in the shorter hull using a shorter wad and sealed with wax. When these have gone through their first firing cycle, they will reprime with 209's. I think the bag of 100 cost something like $17.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Over here, 20 ga. is available. Target loads are $10 to $11 a box. Field loads are +/- $20. But way, way more available than .410.

Wally world or Bi Mart?

 

[gmerkt]

Wally world or Bi Mart?

We don't have Bi-Mart anywhere near me. I've purchased 20 ga. target loads at Walmart in Everett, WA for $10 / box. Cabelas in Tulalip usually has them for $11. Sportsmans Warehouse in Everett has them for $10 but if you get behind someone buying a fishing license, the time wasted isn't worth it.

Just a while ago, I was downstairs prepping some 20 ga. hulls for loading, ones that we shot up yesterday. I reload some, buy some fresh. Just in case. But a 25# bag of shot now costs $55. I'm still working off old stock.

 

[Greg S]

Just bought 100 Norma 9.3x74R brass to use as a 3" hull. Need to load them up with a fire forming charge and corn meal to blow them out.

Got the small bore and brass reloading books coming from BPI along with .43 Nitro cards, wads and .45 overshot cards for the Magtech 2.5 brass cases.

Magtech 2.5" brass and factory Norma 9.3x74R that is 2.940 OAL.

 

[Deavis]

I used old walnut media instead if cream of wheat

 

[WAYNO]

These just showed up on TargetSports...

 

[Brassy Bill]

If you have a .410 shotgun (or handgun) and have looked for .410 bore shotgun shells, you know they are near impossible to find. When found, they are usually 2-1/2 inch shells, which is fine for most handgun applications. If you're looking for 3 inch shells, good luck.

Lately I decided to make some of my own. By hand. Because Lee has stated they won't make a cheap Load All in .410 because the cartridge is too small and fiddly. And, I'm not gonna invest a lot of money in a Mec, I just don't shoot all that many to justify the cost.

I've got a bottle of Win. 296 powder, which is a propellant of choice for .410. Which I already keep on hand for .357 and .44 Magnum rifle cartridges. I ordered a bag of general purpose wads and overshot cards from BPI. I had 209 primers already. I have a few still pictures that I took while doing this. Too bad I don't have a video, that would be better.

To start my experiment, I had about a dozen 3 inch fired hulls, Remington high brass. My plan was to not use a star or roll crimp to close the shell. More about that below. First, I decapped all the hulls using my Lee Load All in 20 gauge.

Next, I seated new primers using a bench top arbor press. The metal heads of the hulls didn't need resizing for the guns I'm going to shoot these in.

Next, I cut off the previously crimped end of the hull. Using a little meat saw with fine teeth that I rescued out of my mom's kitchen after she died. I don't know how old it is, but it was in her kitchen when I was single digit old.

View attachment 1757986

Next, I metered out 17.0 grains of powder into each hull. Following that, I inserted a plastic wad into each hull on top of the powder. I used a pencil to push the wad in. I tamped it down some, then gave each one a slight tap with a flat tipped punch and hammer to pack the wad into the powder.
View attachment 1757987


Since I'd trimmed the previously crimped end of the hull off, they no longer had the capacity for an 11/16 oz. payload. Instead, I loaded these to 2-1/2 inch data firing a half oz. payload of shot. Next time, I will trim less and see if I can get 11/16 oz. loaded. I weighed each load of shot on my little digital scale. I have a very old, tiny funnel that fits into the mouth of the hull to allow the shot to be poured in.

After I had the shot in the shells, I tamped it down lightly and carefully by hand with a punch, then installed a little overshot card on top. With the overshot cards in place, my method of closing the shell was melted candle wax poured on top of the card.

View attachment 1758001

A couple of the hull mouths are ragged. That's because I tried a hose cutter before I changed to the meat saw.

View attachment 1758002

I haven't fired any of these yet, but I'm certain that they will work well enough. I've loaded quite a few unconventional shot shells.

Good job, Im experimenting with the .410
Lee is a disappointment.
I bought the parts for a crimp starter and final star crimp. I already had a roll crimper.
I though about using a size die for the hull, but went to the MEC finger type crimp. I had the press already. Thinking about taking a lee load all and installing bits and pieces to make my own 410 load all.
Im trying to cast rifled 410 slugs. Nothing is working well. A 10mm bullet is close. Maybe a way to swag in rifling grooves....

 

[gmerkt]

Good job, Im experimenting with the .410
Lee is a disappointment.
I bought the parts for a crimp starter and final star crimp. I already had a roll crimper.
I though about using a size die for the hull, but went to the MEC finger type crimp. I had the press already. Thinking about taking a lee load all and installing bits and pieces to make my own 410 load all.
Im trying to cast rifled 410 slugs. Nothing is working well. A 10mm bullet is close. Maybe a way to swag in rifling grooves....

Yeah, Lee chooses not to make a Load-All for .410 gauge. And I won't put out lots of money for a Mec since I don't shoot .410 all that much. I have a Load All for 20 ga., but it's not very satisfying. Fortunately, I'm not a huge volume wing shooter.

This is why I've settled for my present process. We can't get primed 3 in. hulls these days, so I've settled for 2-1/2 in. Fiocchi when they come up available. Using BPI's shortest .410 wad column, otherwise it's hard to get a 1/2 oz. load in the hull. I've been sealing with candle wax, I've gotten a pretty good pattern with my test shots. Of course we're talking single shot here, those candle wax loads probably wouldn't feed in a pump. Fine for revolver.

Years ago, BPI sold .410 Foster slugs. Time went by, and a few years ago I called BPI to ask why they were no longer in the catalog. The "tech" that I talked to said they had never sold .410 Foster slugs. I had to send him a copy of my old BPI catalog to prove him wrong. They still sell round balls and a wad for them in .410, they work reasonably well. Here is something in .410 that BPI catalogs, unfortunately it's out of stock.

Thug Slug .410 127-grain (25/pak)

x

www.ballisticproducts.com

I'd want to know if they require a 3 in. hull. Looks like it to me. I've never tried these but I'll probably get around to them. I've used this product in 12 gauge with very satisfying results. Consistent hits in a 10 inch black circle at 65 yards in a rifled barrel.

The thing about .410 shotguns, most of them are well choked down, like Full. Those grooves in many rifled slugs are to allow the slug to squeeze down through a choked barrel and keep on going, instead of becoming an obstruction and blowing the end of the barrel out. The "rifling" on the slug actually doesn't impart much if any spin. Sabot slugs fired through rifled shotgun barrels do spin.

Re. the 10mm bullet. If it will fall through the choke in your barrel, it might work. Using a brush-type wad, or a regular wad with the petals cut off. I wouldn't trust the 10mm bullet in a full wad with petals, it might be too constricted by remaining inside the wad as it went through the choke. A cast 10mm bullet would be more advisable than a jacketed one, but in any case, it's going to be a bit sub caliber to the barrel.

 

[Jay Walk]

"Ammo I don't need."

I am not sure I follow.

 

[Brassy Bill]

Yeah, Lee chooses not to make a Load-All for .410 gauge. And I won't put out lots of money for a Mec since I don't shoot .410 all that much. I have a Load All for 20 ga., but it's not very satisfying. Fortunately, I'm not a huge volume wing shooter.

This is why I've settled for my present process. We can't get primed 3 in. hulls these days, so I've settled for 2-1/2 in. Fiocchi when they come up available. Using BPI's shortest .410 wad column, otherwise it's hard to get a 1/2 oz. load in the hull. I've been sealing with candle wax, I've gotten a pretty good pattern with my test shots. Of course we're talking single shot here, those candle wax loads probably wouldn't feed in a pump. Fine for revolver.

Years ago, BPI sold .410 Foster slugs. Time went by, and a few years ago I called BPI to ask why they were no longer in the catalog. The "tech" that I talked to said they had never sold .410 Foster slugs. I had to send him a copy of my old BPI catalog to prove him wrong. They still sell round balls and a wad for them in .410, they work reasonably well. Here is something in .410 that BPI catalogs, unfortunately it's out of stock.

Thug Slug .410 127-grain (25/pak)

x

www.ballisticproducts.com

I'd want to know if they require a 3 in. hull. Looks like it to me. I've never tried these but I'll probably get around to them. I've used this product in 12 gauge with very satisfying results. Consistent hits in a 10 inch black circle at 65 yards in a rifled barrel.

The thing about .410 shotguns, most of them are well choked down, like Full. Those grooves in many rifled slugs are to allow the slug to squeeze down through a choked barrel and keep on going, instead of becoming an obstruction and blowing the end of the barrel out. The "rifling" on the slug actually doesn't impart much if any spin. Sabot slugs fired through rifled shotgun barrels do spin.

Re. the 10mm bullet. If it will fall through the choke in your barrel, it might work. Using a brush-type wad, or a regular wad with the petals cut off. I wouldn't trust the 10mm bullet in a full wad with petals, it might be too constricted by remaining inside the wad as it went through the choke. A cast 10mm bullet would be more advisable than a jacketed one, but in any case, it's going to be a bit sub caliber to the barrel.

Your right, I would put the .401 bullet in the wad. I bought Thug slugs, haven't loaded yet. Using to try to mold my own

 

[gmerkt]

I bought Thug slugs, haven't loaded yet. Using to try to mold my own

Yes, they are kind of expensive. I think about the price of each one at launch time.

 

[Brassy Bill]

Yes, they are kind of expensive. I think about the price of each one at launch time.

I got a 410 upper. So thsts why the desire for an inexpensive rifled slug.