Starbucks changing gun policy!!!

[ZA_Survivalist]

Well, bubblegum'em.
I respect that they have the right to refuse service because it is their business after all.. However Starbucks just went on my list of places I wont do business with ever again.
That sliver of backbone they had has snapped and they gave into the demands of the antis though at heart they were anti all along. I respect the fact that they did promote equal treatment in their establishments for that short time.

Hell, Id rather get coffee from that "Bikini coffee" anyway.. At least there I get a nice view with my bean juice.

 

[solv3nt]

I would like to clarify two points. First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our request—and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on. Second, we know we cannot satisfy everyone. For those who oppose "open carry," we believe the legislative and policy-making process is the proper arena for this debate, not our stores. For those who champion "open carry," please respect that Starbucks stores are places where everyone should feel relaxed and comfortable. The presence of a weapon in our stores is unsettling and upsetting for many of our customers.

An Open Letter from Howard Schultz, ceo of Starbucks Coffee Company | Starbucks Coffee Company

Guys, not that I like Starbucks, I believe that they burn their beans, but if you actually read their statement; you'll see that they aren't banning guns. There have been repeated requests from management asking that they not be in the middle of the gun control debate prior to this.

I personally prefer to lawfully CC my firearm, as I would prefer to have the element of surprise. That said, I fully stand behind the second amendment. However, open carrying a firearm to "normalize" the behavior to the general public is not going to make someone that is already afraid of guns to being ok with them. For example, someone that is already deathly afraid of an inanimate object, will still be just as afraid, if not more so, by the sight of your firearm on your hip. This can be seen by many of the comments on the Starbucks page. The only way that you will change a persons mind, is by taking that individual shooting. Stop scaring the sheep.

 

[solv3nt]

Let's say that your wife/girlfriend/whatever is deathly afraid of spiders. How do you cure her of her fear? Do you give her a tarantula to "normalize" her to spiders? Scaring the snot out of her is not going to solve the problem.

A phobia by definition is an irrational fear, so there's no amount of "normalizing" that you can do as an individual to cure someone of their fear. It is something that the individual must take steps to overcome, such as going to the range with a responsible friend.

 

[CoastRange57]

The only way that you will change a persons mind, is by taking that individual shooting. Stop scaring the sheep.

Can you expound a bit as to how that is going to change a persons mind about guns and shooting ?

If they asked you to go to an anti gun rally, would you, and would it change your mind about guns ?

 

[solv3nt]

Can you expound a bit as to how that is going to change a persons mind about guns and shooting ?

If they asked you to go to an anti gun rally, would you, and would it change your mind about guns ?

To answer your question, no, my mind will not be changed by attending ANY rally. However, let's flip this around, if you take someone that is deathly afraid of guns to an open carry event, what do you think that the outcome will be? It's basically taking the sheep, and placing them in the middle of the lions den.

By taking someone that is afraid of guns shooting, you can show them that they are an inanimate object, and that they do not pose a hazard in an of themselves. It is even better if you show them how the majority of responsible gun owners view firearm ownership and use.

 

[CoastRange57]

To answer your question, no, my mind will not be changed by attending ANY rally. However, let's flip this around, if you take someone that is deathly afraid of guns to an open carry event, what do you think that the outcome will be? It's basically taking the sheep, and placing them in the middle of the lions den.

By taking someone that is afraid of guns shooting, you can show them that they are an inanimate object, and that they do not pose a hazard in an of themselves. It is even better if you show them how the majority of responsible gun owners view firearm ownership and use.

What is the difference between an open carry event and shooting ? Shooting you are discharging the weapon instead of just carrying it around.

If they feel uncomfortable around guns in open carry, you honestly think that taking them shooting where these guns make loud noises, and put holes in things, you think that is going to change their mind ?

If they are as passionate about their dislike, fear, phobia, uncomfortable, or what ever of guns, as you are passionate about your 2A rights, your gun hobby or whatever, then you have about as much chance of changing their mind as you do about changing your mind the other way. What could they do for you to help you over to their way of thinking ?

I feel no need to win over or convince anybody about guns, shooting, self defense or preparing. If that is their view, I respect it and feel no need to change it, or try to change it, and I do not expect them to try and change a life long passion of mine about firearms, hunting, shooting and preparing.

I mind my own business, I carry legally, and I am trained in many aspects of shooting and self defense. You have as much change of changing my views as a snowball in he11. I fully respect your view, and I applaud your desire to changes ones views. I just think for me that I have other things I need to do in life that try and alter ones political views. Especially about such a highly polarized thing as guns.

 

[solv3nt]

I mind my own business, I carry legally, and I am trained in many aspects of shooting and self defense. You have as much change of changing my views as a snowball in he11. I fully respect your view, and I applaud your desire to changes ones views. I just think for me that I have other things I need to do in life that try and alter ones political views. Especially about such a highly polarized thing as guns.

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your points on this situation. Going with the "you have as much chance of changing my views as a snowball in he11" other than scaring the sheep into trying to create more gun control laws, what do you hope to accomplish with "Starbucks open carry appreciation day"?

 

[captqc]

With this statement Starbucks is trying to pander to the lefties while not pissing of us "gun nuts", it didn't work! They should have made a stand (one way or the other) or left things as they were, but this "please don't bring in a gun because some it will scare our lefty customers is crap"! I'll spend my money elsewhere. Gary

 

[The B]

Well, bubblegum'em.
I respect that they have the right to refuse service because it is their business after all.. However Starbucks just went on my list of places I wont do business with ever again.
That sliver of backbone they had has snapped and they gave into the demands of the antis though at heart they were anti all along. I respect the fact that they did promote equal treatment in their establishments for that short time.

Hell, Id rather get coffee from that "Bikini coffee" anyway.. At least there I get a nice view with my bean juice.

They didn't give in to antis, they got tired of you.

 

[4Freedom]

Another reason not to go to Starbucks, besides their crappy, over-roasted coffee and stale, flavorless pastries.

 

[CoastRange57]

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your points on this situation. Going with the "you have as much chance of changing my views as a snowball in he11" other than scaring the sheep into trying to create more gun control laws, what do you hope to accomplish with "Starbucks open carry appreciation day"?

I don't hope to accomplish a damn thing. The whole Starbucks open carry position and activities was a pretty stupid move on those individuals in my opinion. The only thing you do with flaunting this open carry thing is move these activities to the media forefront, and to me that is the wrong thing and way to do it. The fing lefty liberals are going to spin that against 2A rights. Just as they were able to in this Starbucks case. I for one think it is pretty stupid to pay the kind of prices they want for fing coffee, but they have a good commercial following, and have demonstrated they have the ability and no problem to convert that over to a solid political stance.

I prefer a much more subtle approach, advocate where appropriate and effective for our 2A rights, and stop trying to win/ convert/convince this thing in the MSM. It is not going to work.

 

[U201491]

I don't hope to accomplish a damn thing. The whole Starbucks open carry position and activities was a pretty stupid move on those individuals in my opinion. The only thing you do with flaunting this open carry thing is move these activities to the media forefront, and to me that is the wrong thing and way to do it. The fing lefty liberals are going to spin that against 2A rights. Just as they were able to in this Starbucks case. I for one think it is pretty stupid to pay the kind of prices they want for fing coffee, but they have a good commercial following, and have demonstrated they have the ability and no problem to convert that over to a solid political stance.

I prefer a much more subtle approach, advocate where appropriate and effective for our 2A rights, and stop trying to win/ convert/convince this thing in the MSM. It is not going to work.

 

[U201491]

Another reason not to go to Starbucks, besides their crappy, over-roasted coffee and stale, flavorless pastries.

Thats my reason for not going there. Those pastries sit in a warehouse up off the columbia for days before the get to the Starbucks also. All over priced cardboard

 

[Dave Workman]

Starbucks letter ignites tempest in a coffee pot

Overnight, Howard Schultz, CEO of the Seattle-based Starbucks – which has become the unwilling focal point of a political struggle over gun rights – released an open letter asking people to not carry firearms in Starbucks coffee shops.

<broken link removed>

 

[nwo]

The only good thing about Starbuck is Portlands own Katee Sackhoff.

 

[Stevenav]

Let's say that your wife/girlfriend/whatever is deathly afraid of spiders. How do you cure her of her fear? Do you give her a tarantula to "normalize" her to spiders? Scaring the snot out of her is not going to solve the problem.

A phobia by definition is an irrational fear, so there's no amount of "normalizing" that you can do as an individual to cure someone of their fear. It is something that the individual must take steps to overcome, such as going to the range with a responsible friend.

That argument, while I respect you, sir, is bullbubblegum.
This is NOT a Phobia. Having suffered a phobia toward swimming pools after having nearly drowned in one as a child, I understand what a phobia is, and antis do NOT have a phobia toward guns. They do not get short of breath, they do not panic, they do not have a desire to run from the gun. No, antis do NOT have a phobia toward guns, they have an irrational dislike of guns firmly based in an almost complete lack of understanding of what a gun is and is not. They think that guns are things that only bad people use (because the tv box tells them this is so) and thus we need to get rid of them.

They don't consider the utility or the good a gun can do toward defending people from those that mean them harm... they simply have this knee jerk reaction to guns on a visceral level ingrained by indoctrination.

If it was a phobia of guns we'd have seen the same phobias for hundreds of years with people showing the classic signs of fear toward guns, no... this is simply a lack of education and a lack or exposure to safe gun culture. Nothing more or less.

How did I get past my phobia? I went swimming in pools with tools to help me gradually overcome my fear. I started with diving masks and other things to limit my exposure to water and gradually overcame it.

Ultimately here's the deal...

Lets say you go out hunting, and then while you're heading home, you stop off with your hunting buddies at a diner. You go in, you have your hunting rifles with you, noone gives you a second glance... why? Because the people in that diner have likely seen plenty of people in and out over the years carrying their deer rifles or whatnot on their shoulders stopping in for a meal. Noone calls the cops, noone thinks twice about it because it's normal, it's expected to see people fresh off a hunt stopping in.
Same way that in parts of the NE you might see a bunch of guys back from a sunday clay shoot carrying their shotguns with them and stopping off for donuts and coffee.

Now why aren't the cops being called, why isn't anyone freaking out.

Because those people have, over time, gotten used to seeing firearms in the hands of people and seeing they aren't being attacked.

Normalization. Short and sweet.

However, this is the point where a lot of the asshat protestors get things wrong with normalization.

They think that if they just go walking around with scary looking "assault weapons" that people will just get used to it.

Well they won't, because assault stylized weapons are meant to look intimidating and angry. They're black, they look nasty, and they look dangerous.... well duh, of course they look that way because they're designed to look that way. The people that make them have intentionally made them look black hard and bad to appeal to the mentality of people that use them.

If you see a guy walking around with a rifle with a nice wood stock and which looks like a hunting rifle, people aren't generally gonna freak if you are near a hunting area. They'll assume you're a hunter and that you're just carrying it to go hunting later. But carry it into a mall, people assume no such thing. They do the mental calculus and arrive at you with gun+ inappropriate locale for a gun=threat.

You aren't going to normalize people IF the locale you are trying to normalize for open carry of rifles or whatever is a thoroughly inapproppriate locale for the weapon.

Starbucks... it's a coffee place, it's reasonable you might see a hunter or someone that carries a gun in the shop getting a bit of coffee to warm up. It's logical. The cheesecake factory?... not a reasonable place to carry a gun into. It just isn't. Just saying... you can't force gun normalization in a place where a gun is frankly very abnormal.

 

[solv3nt]

If it was a phobia of guns we'd have seen the same phobias for hundreds of years with people showing the classic signs of fear toward guns, no... this is simply a lack of education and a lack or exposure to safe gun culture. Nothing more or less.

Based on your new definition, I would argue that my point still stands; holding open carry events at Starbucks is not going to educate the sheep of the safe gun culture that exists in America today.

 

[U201494]

This was inevitable.
Very few businesses will openly support carrying firearms amongst their customers, even less when buttheads insist on open carrying firearms in the presence of customers who do not like firearms. Yes, I am sure one of the buttheads will now propose an "Open Carry Protest" at Starbucks.

 

[Father of four]

I think what you CHL people are doing is not seeing the bigger issues. First off another company is indeed not wanting The People to carry their firearms in a public store(open and concealed carry). I understand a business owner has that right but it is what it is. Secondly I see once again the CHL crowd throwing the open carry crowd under the bus. I thought that Starbucks was beside the open carry and concealed people. Heck, they let both come into their store for a looooooooong time until they changed their minds. So now what I hear is even you CHL guys blaming the open carriers for "scaring the people"? Would it be better if the open carriers just leave their firearms at home? Or maybe just never take them into a store? What I hear is you CHL not standing with your Pro- open carry fellow firearm enthusiasts but actually seemingly to condone their right to open carry to be publicly shunned.

Is it really the right thing to do to hide Our firearms from the public eye?

 

[Father of four]

This was inevitable.
Very few businesses will openly support carrying firearms amongst their customers, even less when buttheads insist on open carrying firearms in the presence of customers who do not like firearms. Yes, I am sure one of the buttheads will now propose an "Open Carry Protest" at Starbucks.

Yeah, just you CHL guys should be able to exercise your rights in public? The others are just idiots for open carrying?