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If they post signage, I won't go in (open carry or not, rarely open). Otherwise, this letter of request is just babble and not policy.
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Starbucks changing gun policy!!!
- Thread Starter Kable
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Read recently there's a vast amount of heroin going to poison the children of America.
Are there vast amounts of stupid pills being consumed also?
Just posted: Hillsboro, OR
Man carrying hunting rifle near elementary school, to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights.
Last week: Man carrying rifle near Seattle area school.
Years ago, when California was still a free state,
Man with a Chinese type 56 opened fire at a NorCal elementry school, killing kids.
Texas, Luby's (gun free) Restaurant
Man killed lots of folks with guns.
California (somewhere near San Diego) 1970?
Man opens fire in McDonalds Restaurant with machine gun, many killed.
Are there vast amounts of stupid pills being consumed also?
Just posted: Hillsboro, OR
Man carrying hunting rifle near elementary school, to exercise his 2nd Amendment rights.
Last week: Man carrying rifle near Seattle area school.
Years ago, when California was still a free state,
Man with a Chinese type 56 opened fire at a NorCal elementry school, killing kids.
Texas, Luby's (gun free) Restaurant
Man killed lots of folks with guns.
California (somewhere near San Diego) 1970?
Man opens fire in McDonalds Restaurant with machine gun, many killed.
I can't get to page 2 of that site, but at least he is not radical about it and seems to still be neutral, but is probably feeling stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I still don't like their coffee as well as mine and micky d's
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Here's the link to the link about the Hillsboro school
http://www.northwestfirearms.com/ge...149073-what-people-thinking-when-they-do.html
http://www.northwestfirearms.com/ge...149073-what-people-thinking-when-they-do.html
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Starbucks simply said "guys, we are neigher anti-gun nor pro-gun, we are neutral, stop your open-carry flashmobs, leave your politics out; you can open-carry if you absolutely must but it scares some of our customers and does not help anything so can you please stop - thank you in advance".
Starbucks is still NOT a gun-free zone. They are under pressure to become one. It takes guts to resist, I can respect that.
Starbucks is still NOT a gun-free zone. They are under pressure to become one. It takes guts to resist, I can respect that.
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When I was little, my Mon used to tell me "the devil is on the extremes". As I grow older, I can appreciate the wisdom of her saying ever more.
Starbucks did not appreciate the extra attention "Appreciation Days" brought them; pun intended. Please, do not over-react. Just go back to OCing just because you OC. Let's just not make an event of it. If I ever step back into Starbucks again, I will CC, which is what I normally do, anyways. End of story.
Starbucks did not appreciate the extra attention "Appreciation Days" brought them; pun intended. Please, do not over-react. Just go back to OCing just because you OC. Let's just not make an event of it. If I ever step back into Starbucks again, I will CC, which is what I normally do, anyways. End of story.
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Well, I thought they were being "neutral" before and I supported them just for being so, but if my weapon is specifically not welcome now (and I'm always CC'ing it), then I won't bother them with my money.
I'm just going to say this...
Why don't we, as gun owners organize and do the exact same damn thing that these asshats do. Instead of just being passive, we go after businesses and demand that they NOT discriminate against gun owners or we'll picket them as ignoring the civil rights of law abiding people.
Put the pressure on them the same way these anti organizations are doing to us. They're the ones that are erroding rights.. .but we never seem to get off our asses and try to EXPAND rights. No, instead we sit around and play defense.
Well I for one am sick of it. I say that gun owners as a group should go on the OFFENSIVE for a change and demand our rights.
Why don't we, as gun owners organize and do the exact same damn thing that these asshats do. Instead of just being passive, we go after businesses and demand that they NOT discriminate against gun owners or we'll picket them as ignoring the civil rights of law abiding people.
Put the pressure on them the same way these anti organizations are doing to us. They're the ones that are erroding rights.. .but we never seem to get off our asses and try to EXPAND rights. No, instead we sit around and play defense.
Well I for one am sick of it. I say that gun owners as a group should go on the OFFENSIVE for a change and demand our rights.
This should be absolutely no surprise to anyone. Open Carry activists put Starbucks in this position by holding their gatherings on private property, politicizing the issue for the company and effectively forcing Starbucks to choose a side. Attempting an open carry meeting at Starbucks in Newtown was probably the final straw.
They rolled the dice and lost. The stores belong to Starbucks, not the open carriers. They were stupid to even play this game on their turf. Nice way to hand a victory to the antis.
They rolled the dice and lost. The stores belong to Starbucks, not the open carriers. They were stupid to even play this game on their turf. Nice way to hand a victory to the antis.
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Not that I have bought anything from Starbucks in years, however next time I'm out and craving some coffee, I will go to Dutch Bros. instead. You all remember about their employee who got robbed and successfully defended himself with his CCW. The company stood behind him and changed their policy from "Our employees are not allowed to carry firearms" to "We will not disclose our company's employement policies."
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I live in GP.... Dutch Bros giving out too much to communities. They even give you a free coffee on your Birthday.
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It is their stores, it is our money! They do what they want to their stores, we do what we want to our money
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Private businesses should be free to make policy as they wish. Private individuals should have the ability to choose who they patronize, and for what reasons. Let the free market decide who "wins" and who "looses"
Boycott them if you want, patronize them if you want. If you want to carry in an "unfriendly" locale - keep the damn thing concealed and go about your business. Open carry is fine - until it becomes a political statement. Jackasses toting rifles around town "because I can" do ZERO to help further the protection of our rights, and just make us all look like crazy overzealous rambo wannabes. Every asshat who packs his AR around in town, is fueling the anti-gun fire and pushing fence sitters and middle-of-the-road folks over to the antis side. Scaring people is NOT how to help the cause, and it is never going to be normal or socially acceptable in this country to tote a rifle around with you everywhere you go, unless we have a total societal collapse (which honestly is what I think these asshats secretly want, just so they can shoot at someone with their tacticool toys) - and frankly I never want to see the day that open carry of a rifle becomes "normal".
I also get tired of reading about the open carry "protests" (or anti-protests, whatever they want to call them) with hundreds of gun owners getting together toting around their open carry guns just to make a point. I open carry from time to time myself, and until my CHL was orginally processed, I carried openly daily, and never got hassled by the cops. I did, however, respect private business wishes, and if they had a no weapons sign, I stayed the hell out or, if I absolutely had to enter the place, locked the gun in the trunk of the car.
I don't want to see open carry banned - but if it keeps being used to force "acceptance" and "normalization" we are going to see the pendulum swing to the left and BAM - no more open carry anywhere, anyhow, by any simple plebe. THe only people who would be allowed to carry openly would be uniformed security, the police, and the military. End of story. Don't think it can happen? Cali banned open carry. Multnomah County banned open carry - and we have plenty of california minded liberals in Oregon who would happily alter the law to ban open carry - and who would push us to a "may issue" state again if they had their way. We're lucky we have state pre-emption, albeit weak preemption since MultCo was able to pass their ban for non-CHL holders.
I don't want these yahoos screwing things up for the rest of us, and they're not just walking down the FUBAR path - they're running us down that path full steam ahead. Keep scaring children, parents, and the general public and see where it gets us. Keep pushing private businesses to have to take a side like they're doing with Starbucks - see where it gets you. Eventually you won't be able to shop anywhere, go to any entertainment venue, or public space because your boycott list will be taller than yourself. There are probably a thousand times more people who DON'T open carry, who use these spaces, than those who do. Business people don't want gun toters scaring off their other customers - so they will make the business decision to loose 1% of their business vs 10, 20, maybe even 50% of their business by telling you to leave the gun at home, and it's their right to do it. Think about this too - if open carriers scare away business - you're not just hurting the business' bottom line, but you're potentially impacting the income of every employee working there from the stock crew to the owners - you're screwing with their livelihoods and their wages - because you can't come up with a better solution to get your political point across. It's perfect business sense to loose one small segment of business over a large one, if you are shoved into a decision like this.
Keep your political protests/statements/rallies on the public streets where they belong, and respect private venues and businesses rights to self governance. Their rights are just as important as ours - the Constitution and Bill of Rights is not one simple paragraph - the 2nd Amendment is but one piece and just a small section of the overall picture - an important piece for sure, but it is not the end-all be-all of our liberties and too many folks are forgetting that, or can't see past their own muzzle.
Leave the open carry of rifles and long guns to the woods - where it belongs - and stop the open carry pistol political rallies on private property unless you have the owners consent. Get a CHL and keep the tactical advantage. There's plenty of other visual clues you can give to potential bad guys - other than a visibly worn gun. With rights come responsibility. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's responsible or reasonable at all times.
Boycott them if you want, patronize them if you want. If you want to carry in an "unfriendly" locale - keep the damn thing concealed and go about your business. Open carry is fine - until it becomes a political statement. Jackasses toting rifles around town "because I can" do ZERO to help further the protection of our rights, and just make us all look like crazy overzealous rambo wannabes. Every asshat who packs his AR around in town, is fueling the anti-gun fire and pushing fence sitters and middle-of-the-road folks over to the antis side. Scaring people is NOT how to help the cause, and it is never going to be normal or socially acceptable in this country to tote a rifle around with you everywhere you go, unless we have a total societal collapse (which honestly is what I think these asshats secretly want, just so they can shoot at someone with their tacticool toys) - and frankly I never want to see the day that open carry of a rifle becomes "normal".
I also get tired of reading about the open carry "protests" (or anti-protests, whatever they want to call them) with hundreds of gun owners getting together toting around their open carry guns just to make a point. I open carry from time to time myself, and until my CHL was orginally processed, I carried openly daily, and never got hassled by the cops. I did, however, respect private business wishes, and if they had a no weapons sign, I stayed the hell out or, if I absolutely had to enter the place, locked the gun in the trunk of the car.
I don't want to see open carry banned - but if it keeps being used to force "acceptance" and "normalization" we are going to see the pendulum swing to the left and BAM - no more open carry anywhere, anyhow, by any simple plebe. THe only people who would be allowed to carry openly would be uniformed security, the police, and the military. End of story. Don't think it can happen? Cali banned open carry. Multnomah County banned open carry - and we have plenty of california minded liberals in Oregon who would happily alter the law to ban open carry - and who would push us to a "may issue" state again if they had their way. We're lucky we have state pre-emption, albeit weak preemption since MultCo was able to pass their ban for non-CHL holders.
I don't want these yahoos screwing things up for the rest of us, and they're not just walking down the FUBAR path - they're running us down that path full steam ahead. Keep scaring children, parents, and the general public and see where it gets us. Keep pushing private businesses to have to take a side like they're doing with Starbucks - see where it gets you. Eventually you won't be able to shop anywhere, go to any entertainment venue, or public space because your boycott list will be taller than yourself. There are probably a thousand times more people who DON'T open carry, who use these spaces, than those who do. Business people don't want gun toters scaring off their other customers - so they will make the business decision to loose 1% of their business vs 10, 20, maybe even 50% of their business by telling you to leave the gun at home, and it's their right to do it. Think about this too - if open carriers scare away business - you're not just hurting the business' bottom line, but you're potentially impacting the income of every employee working there from the stock crew to the owners - you're screwing with their livelihoods and their wages - because you can't come up with a better solution to get your political point across. It's perfect business sense to loose one small segment of business over a large one, if you are shoved into a decision like this.
Keep your political protests/statements/rallies on the public streets where they belong, and respect private venues and businesses rights to self governance. Their rights are just as important as ours - the Constitution and Bill of Rights is not one simple paragraph - the 2nd Amendment is but one piece and just a small section of the overall picture - an important piece for sure, but it is not the end-all be-all of our liberties and too many folks are forgetting that, or can't see past their own muzzle.
Leave the open carry of rifles and long guns to the woods - where it belongs - and stop the open carry pistol political rallies on private property unless you have the owners consent. Get a CHL and keep the tactical advantage. There's plenty of other visual clues you can give to potential bad guys - other than a visibly worn gun. With rights come responsibility. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's responsible or reasonable at all times.
Well said Ben, that's pretty much what I was thinking. When I was reading about these recent plans to have a bunch of folks show up OC in a Starbuck's, it didn't surprise me at all that this is the ultimate outcome. Starbucks is a business and they have the right to include or exclude certain activities on their premises. Folks that show up en masse with guns on their belts - what do you think is going to happen? Free coffee for everyone? You know it freaks certain people out, so what did you think Starbuck's was going to do? Stand by and keep their mouths shut? Enjoy your freedom. OC if you really feel the need, but please stop shoving it in people's faces. The fact is that the anti-gun side works even harder at times than the pro-gun side to get their laws passed, so let's try not to give them fuel for the fire.
Why don't we? Because we should be better than them.
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Sheesh, it's like listening to kids arguing over a paper bag... After a while you get sick of it, walk in from the other room and take away the source of the argument, ground/restrict everyone, then make them mow the lawn, clean the gutters, and wash the dog.
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They tried to do the right thing and it was turned into something it wasn't.. so now they're just *asking* politely to let them make coffee and leave the politics at the door. I don't think that's unreasonable nor something to flip out over. If you're flipping out, then you misunderstood their intent to remain neutral to being with. They just want to make coffee. Don't go there if you don't want, but you can't get mad at them for people turning their neutral stance into something it wasn't, thereby forcing them to make this "request" -- Not a policy, not a ban... just please leave the debate at the door and stop scaring our customers.
I fully support that OC'ing should NOT scare people, but I don't think that's a battle that can be won by force or OC "rallies". All I see is it making the gap bigger and bigger. I'm tired of being labeled as a "gun nut teabagger". The example that was made out of Starbucks' NEUTRAL stance is exactly what causes that perception.
I'm not a teabagger. I'm not a gun nut. I happen to own a gun and I cc where the law allows. I'm also a mother, wife, and pretty darn "normal" whatever that means. Fight the stupid laws, elect better leaders, stick to our Constitution .. but please do stop making us look like a bunch of idiots.
I fully support that OC'ing should NOT scare people, but I don't think that's a battle that can be won by force or OC "rallies". All I see is it making the gap bigger and bigger. I'm tired of being labeled as a "gun nut teabagger". The example that was made out of Starbucks' NEUTRAL stance is exactly what causes that perception.
I'm not a teabagger. I'm not a gun nut. I happen to own a gun and I cc where the law allows. I'm also a mother, wife, and pretty darn "normal" whatever that means. Fight the stupid laws, elect better leaders, stick to our Constitution .. but please do stop making us look like a bunch of idiots.
I would recommend reading the post from Mac of the military arms channel. While we might be frustrated as a gun community we must be careful of how we portray ourselves. Telling Starbucks to suck it does nothing but create a worse perception on us, showing that we are quick to anger.
Mac's post
Mac's post
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