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Perception is everything. Right now the perception of those who are for gun control think 2A supporters are a bunch of crazy gun nuts. How did that happen? The crazy gun nuts went crazy. Including misunderstanding Starbucks' neutral position on guns and creating a huge spectacle out of it. Therefore further planting in the antis' minds that we're all nuts. I see people posting things all the time (on social media sites) that do no good, such as pictures of guns captioned "you'll get my gun from my cold dead hands", etc. What does that tell someone? That they'd rather die than give up a gun. It doesn't seem logical that you value your gun more than your life. I know it's not to be taken literally (I would hope) but it certainly doesn't seem sane or rational to someone who doesn't understand guns and the 2A.

There has to be a way to change that perception without shoving actual guns in their face. A good start would be to not hold rallies where they were never welcomed. Or maybe not use a company's logo to endorse your position, ESPECIALLY when they made it clear they were remaining neutral.

Unfortunately, the implication of FMCDH (From My Cold Dead Hands) is that they WOULD die before letting you take their guns. It's an age old theme- give me liberty or give me death, etc... and there's nothing necessarily wrong with it, in a society that embraces that. The problem is that our society does NOT embrace that concept. Mr. and Mrs. America (to use Fienstein's famous line) would turn in their guns if told to do so.... they're just not that important, in our safety-loving, freedom-fearing society.

The flipside to the silliness that is FMCDH is that you should have died with that gun in your hands almost a century ago when they DID start taking peoples' guns. It's too late for those sentiments, now. They already took all the fun guns (those we'd use to fight their tyranny- machineguns, artillery, explosives, SA, AA, and AS munitions, etc, etc, etc)... what the hell you gonna fight with now? Your semiauto AR15 (made by RRA, so you know it'll fail in the middle of the fight anyway)? Yea, they WILL be taking your gun from your cold, dead hands.

FMCDH is laughable. Oh yea? You gonna battle it out with the ATF, eh? EMPTY threat. Absolutely empty.

More to the point, it makes you look like a freak for no good, because it IS an empty threat.
 
Some pro-gun activists express the same rabid fanaticism that some anti-gun activists display. I prefer to avoid both.

That tone is only there to alienate people, I rarely get the idea that a foaming-at-the-mouth cold-dead-hander is going to convince an anti or even a middle of the road that the issue really isn't the gun, like a foaming-at-the-mouth Bloomberg Brady buncher is going to convice a gun person or someone who doesn't really care that guns are the root of all evil. It's the tone that makes the music, but I can understand people would rather shout and preach to the choir as it gives more short term satisfaction.
 
They didn't give in to antis, they got tired of you.
Real cute. Glad to see Mr. Beckerich has joined the conversation.
As for your most recent post..
Why should one "register" or ask permission and PAY to exercise a right?
I see you secret shame firearm owners are just fine giving into their demands and demonization of firearms and our right to own and carry them.

Being so full of liberal views how can you possibly own firearms?.. Let alone carry one with your magic permission slip of a CHL.

We've done this dance before. You contribute nothing to the conversation other than to rag on OCer and folks who genuinely enjoy firearms and try and embrace their second amendment rights.

I don't think Ive ever read one of your posts that wasn't snarky, condescending and full of cynicism.

Id use the ignore function, but truthfully you aren't even worth that much of my time.
 
Are you really? :)

Yea.. I am

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I may feel differently tomorrow, but today, for the purpose of eliciting discussion, I offer this:

thanks to all those with bravado, maybe even those showing sincere appreciation. by carrying open into a private establishment you pushed the employer into taking action, taking a stance....and where Starbucks could have held to a 'no comment' or maintained a status quo position they were compelled to respond had we not continued with the Appreciation Day events.

any law school student...any debate neophyte can tell you that a basic tactic is not to argue yourself into a weaker position.
 
Well Reggie. I think it was a very bad decision for you to openly call all of us idiots/butt heads for open carrying. You are a very big part of our problem by not standing with the other pro 2nd Amendment and pro firearm people. The anti crowd are probably loving the division amongst us.
 
I may feel differently tomorrow, but today, for the purpose of eliciting discussion, I offer this:

thanks to all those with bravado, maybe even those showing sincere appreciation. by carrying open into a private establishment you pushed the employer into taking action, taking a stance....and where Starbucks could have held to a 'no comment' or maintained a status quo position they were compelled to respond had we not continued with the Appreciation Day events.

any law school student...any debate neophyte can tell you that a basic tactic is not to argue yourself into a weaker position.

Hmmm How bout in english for the simple folk .
What in a nutshell are you saying ??? :)
 
Well Reggie. I think it was a very bad decision for you to openly call all of us idiots for open carrying. You are a very big part of our problem by not standing with the other pro 2nd Amendment and pro firearm people. The anti crowd are probably loving the division amongst us.

As I just posted on someone facebook post on this topic - pro-gun people and open-carry people are not the same. We're not the same group, we're not on the same team, we don't have the same objectives and we definitely disagree on effective methods. Don't throw me in with guys walking around with freaken ARs in Starbucks.

BTW Reggie. What are we supposed to do then in your opinion? Get the CHL or stay home?

You're never gonna believe this... but I hardly ever carry a gun. I don't even think to. Our society is safe. Way too safe, in my opinion, but safe nonetheless.

Your choices are not conceal or stay at home. As any OC person will tell you it's about exercising your rights, right? The safety angle hardly ever even comes up.
 
Bringing this back around to the point again.... OC if you want. As I've stated so many times in the past- I'm not in support of any kind of law that bans the practice. I just think it's not helpful, and that you have to be a little on the stupid/wacky/socially underdeveloped/etc side to want to do it in the first place.

I am, however, making the case that you're HURTING gun rights with stupid demonstrations, making it into a political statement, and "appreciation days." Obviously, since everyone's backlashing against you for doing it all the damn time, to include pro-gun people.
 
Yea.. I am


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Well done sir. Very well done.
Nice rigs to boot, man enough to say: Ill put my foot in my mouth (about my last comment.)
With what looks like your apparent level of experience why aren't you more in favor of OCing?!
I guess my profiling skills are lacking. Your post suggest a different personality however the photos show different.
BTW how about getting an AK in that mix?

However, OCing while climbing? Wouldn't that make other climbers who are a little timid of firearms even more panicky and uncomfortable? :p
 
Well done sir. Very well done.
Nice rigs to boot, man enough to say: Ill put my foot in my mouth (about my last comment.)
With what looks like your apparent level of experience why aren't you more in favor of OCing?!
I guess my profiling skills are lacking. Your post suggest a different personality however the photos show different.
BTW how about getting an AK in that mix?

However, OCing while climbing? Wouldn't that make other climbers who are a little timid of firearms even more panicky and uncomfortable? :p

I'm a 5.56 and 9mm only guy. Maybe someday I'll add a 47 or 74 in for fun, but I stay very focused on training with these two calibers.

Climbers are largely liberal types, and being pro-liberty means being pro-gun. I know it's really hard for people on here to twerk their minds around the concept, having "leftist" and "Democrat" and "progressive" and "liberal" all confused with one another. There are obviously some people in the climbing community, usually exclusively rock climbers (unemployed potheads with gaged ears, dreadlocks, no education, and thinking they know everything about the world, having seen 1/100000000000th of it from their Honda Civic), who don't get it... but even these types aren't anti-gun, they're just anti-anything they deem establishment or American.... and it's hard to get more American than a gun.
 
Perception is everything. Right now the perception of those who are for gun control think 2A supporters are a bunch of crazy gun nuts. How did that happen? The crazy gun nuts went crazy. Including misunderstanding Starbucks' neutral position on guns and creating a huge spectacle out of it. Therefore further planting in the antis' minds that we're all nuts. I see people posting things all the time (on social media sites) that do no good, such as pictures of guns captioned "you'll get my gun from my cold dead hands", etc. What does that tell someone? That they'd rather die than give up a gun. It doesn't seem logical that you value your gun more than your life. I know it's not to be taken literally (I would hope) but it certainly doesn't seem sane or rational to someone who doesn't understand guns and the 2A.

There has to be a way to change that perception without shoving actual guns in their face. A good start would be to not hold rallies where they were never welcomed. Or maybe not use a company's logo to endorse your position, ESPECIALLY when they made it clear they were remaining neutral.

Sure, perception is everything until the veil is shattered with the truth. Who says the crazy gun nuts went crazy? Bloomberg? The media? The government? Me? You?

Therefore further planting in the antis' minds that we're all nuts.

This point when made always grinds my gears for the past couple of years now. The antis' minds are never going to change, we're all nuts in their minds. Always. See the "tea party are all racists, all the time" meme and the feminists "one free grope rule" for Slick Willies they support. Equality for some but not others. See the abortion rights are sacrosanct, "my body, my choice!" crowd who also support mandated government healthcare. For every "open carry folks made things worse in CA!" there are hundreds if not thousands of cases that justify not just open carry but concealed carry with no permit requirement.

This is an issue where you can't waffle around as you'll end up compromising your beliefs away for false peace/treasure/harmony. See the past 79 years since the NFA law. See children being suspended from school for gi joe toy doll-guns, toaster pastries, and drawings of guns. You can't change the perception if you're dancing to their tune.
 
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