Washington Should suicides be included in gun-death statistics?

[bbbass]

not convinced of the need for huge magazines.

I refuse to justify why I have high cap magazines. I don't have to express my "need" for them to anybody! It's the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs. 2A clearly states that it shall not be infringed, yet it has been infringed since what, 1934? That doesn't make it right. Someday the people will get tired of being oppressed in this manner. "Shall not be infringed" is currently unpopular as so called "enlightened" people need to gab and submit themselves to requests to justify their personal choices in bearing arms. I'm unwilling to play that game.

Seems many here have the same opinion on a few things...Curious how that would make it an echo chamber.
If an argument was to be made, then make it. However using echo chamber seems hollow and devoid of any real argument IMO.

Zactly! When a weak argument fails, weak minds turn to trendy jargon to try to win... it's weak.

I suspect there will be further regulations on large magazines ....the gun-owning community just has to decide if they're going to compromise and negotiate for the best possible result or continue to dig in their heels , causing the opposition to come down with even more regulation that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

You're lobbying the forum for compromise, for us to give in, to give up more of our inherent God given rights. We gun owners have compromised endlessly since 1934... now we're seeing that we're the frog in the pot. So the parents will add additional spankings if the recalcitrant children don't submit.

Gonna fight you all the way. I will never submit! - I'm an Oath Keeper

Discussion traps like this one are worse than useless.

 

[eklarsen]

I agree that when you look at suicides they are qualitatively different ....when you go out to the mall with your family you're not generally exposed to risk from somebody contemplating suicide although there is the occasional death by cop but most of those suicides are somebody who shot themselves in their bedroom ......in many of those cases the family members and relatives are to blame for not taking some kind of action ahead of time.
I'm still trying to understand the need for large magazines ....let's just leave out of the argument those that think they need them because the government is going to send their black helmeted squads into your living room to confiscate your guns .......for self-defense generally in the home and for hunting you don't need a 15-round magazine .....if you do you're such a poor shot you shouldn't be hunting

Do you only carry one gallon of gas in your car? Do you only buy 5 potato chips? How many minutes of data does anyone really need, I mean you only surf like two sites so shouldn't 5 minutes be enough?

 

[DB is Here]

Lets keep it friendly. By all means have a strong debate but lets keep away from any personal attacks...thank you in advance.

 

[titsonritz]

They're gun deaths aren't they? Then the answer is yes, just as they should be. The information is and should be there, it is up to the interpreter to correctly interpret and that's not going to happen ala tweeter and facebook.

 

[CamoDeafie]

They're gun deaths aren't they? Then the answer is yes, just as they should be. The information is and should be there, it is up to the interpreter to correctly interpret and that's not going to happen ala tweeter and facebook.

If they specifically state "method of suicide; firearms", maybe. But gun crimes and gun deaths are not linked, should not be linked, and is misleading. Gun deaths should have a big disclaimer stating that these numbers also include death by cops, death by lawful usage (self defense shoots), in addition to accidents, homicides, and suicides.. on the other hand, focusing on "gun crimes" should also include the times where it was reported to the police that criminals were deterred by gun owners, by police, as well as those in which guns were used to commit crimes.

 

[JRuby]

A person who commits suicide using a gun has caused a gun related death. An individual who launches his car off a cliff in a car is a death using a car.
The tool is only a tool and it assists in a task. The individual in control of that tool determines the task. It is a tool used in accomplishing that task. Awful hard to shoot yourself if there are no guns around to do it with. Hard to cut yourself without something sharp. IMHO.

 

[Burnhaven]

Serious question here. What is the actual, documented, enforced penalty for non-compliance of illegal/unconstitutional Acts and laws?

Lets take the muffler analogy further. Most people don't wanna hear gunfire, and they don't wanna know someone is shooting some rounds off in the woods or at a range or some such... then the Hearing Protection Act, the bill that was going to remove firearm sound suppressors/"silencers" from the 1934 NFA laws should have passed easily, and should have had massive popular support but didn't, and died in committee .
Why is that? Why did the pols and the people refuse to allow safety and hearing protection to be accessible? Oh, its never been about that, its always been about control.

If gun control laws reduced crimes then the reverse must be true, that States with the least gun control laws should have higher gun crimes committed
But we can plainly see from the examples of Chicago/Illiniois, California, New York, Maryland (Baltimore), and New Jersey that it is not so.

Are you saying laws that require mufflers on motorcycles are unconstitutional ? are you saying everybody should be able to do anything they want at any time and there should be no laws or regulations controlling anything and if there are any such laws or regulations passed they are unconstitutional because I say they are unconstitutional ?

I'm here to tell you that's not how it works.

 

[titsonritz]

If they specifically state "method of suicide; firearms", maybe. But gun crimes and gun deaths are not linked, should not be linked, and is misleading. Gun deaths should have a big disclaimer stating that these numbers also include death by cops, death by lawful usage (self defense shoots), in addition to accidents, homicides, and suicides.. on the other hand, focusing on "gun crimes" should also include the times where it was reported to the police that criminals were deterred by gun owners, by police, as well as those in which guns were used to commit crimes.

That information is there, just not always presented that way in many cases and some cute meme doesn't represent the full picture.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Are you saying laws that require mufflers on motorcycles are unconstitutional ? are you saying everybody should be able to do anything they want at any time and there should be no laws or regulations controlling anything and if there are any such laws or regulations passed they are unconstitutional because I say they are unconstitutional ?

I'm here to tell you that's not how it works.

I am saying that again, its not about safety, or hearing protection, but its about removing guns and making it harder for ordinary citizens to make their guns not as loud as they ordinarily are

Again, if it is proven that its safer, better for public health, and even better for hunting purposes; silencers/sound suppressors should be fully 100% unrestricted, legal, affordable, no bg check, no $200 tax stamp, no registering.... but that is not how it works these days.

In Europe, there's no laws restricting silencers/suppressors in most EU countries and the UK unlike guns themselves

 

[ma96782]

A gun doesn't get off of the table, load itself, go down to the schoolyard, etc.... and start pulling it's own trigger. Duh, it's an object.

It's about the person behind the trigger. He/she is to blame for the mayhem, injuries, Murder. etc..... Putting a person in prison for a crime is justifiable. Or as a case might be: the Death Penalty, for Murder. You'd be hard-pressed to convince me that due to a very small minority of the misusage of a product....then, all of those products should be made illegal.

Not to mention, the 2nd A specifically says, ".....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Aloha, Mark

 

[11Charlie]

Simple answer is NO!!!!!

 

[Kruel J]

They're gun deaths aren't they? Then the answer is yes, just as they should be. The information is and should be there, it is up to the interpreter to correctly interpret and that's not going to happen ala tweeter and facebook.

These days it's not gonna happen ala much of anything.

 

[awshoot]

... I'm still trying to understand the need for large magazines ...

From Judge Benitez' ruling on the CA mag ban: http://michellawyers.com/wp-content...-2019-03-29-Order-Granting-Plaintiffs-MSJ.pdf

As two masked and armed men broke in, Susan Gonzalez was shot in the chest. She made it back to her bedroom and found her husband's .22 caliber pistol. Wasting the first rounds on warning shots, she then emptied the single pistol at one attacker. Unfortunately, now out of ammunition, she was shot again by the other armed attacker. She was not able to re-load or use a second gun. Both she and her husband were shot twice. Forty-two bullets in all were fired. The gunman fled from the house—but returned. He put his gun to Susan Gonzalez's head and demanded the keys to the couple's truck.

When three armed intruders carrying what look like semi-automatic pistols broke into the home of a single woman at 3:44 a.m., she dialed 911. No answer. Feng Zhu Chen, dressed in pajamas, held a phone in one hand and took up her pistol in the other and began shooting. She fired numerous shots. She had no place to carry an extra magazine and no way to reload because her left hand held the phone with which she was still trying to call 911. After the shooting was over and two of the armed suspects got away and one lay dead, she did get through to the police. The home security camera video is dramatic.

A mother, Melinda Herman, and her nine-year-old twins were at home when an intruder broke in. She and her twins retreated to an upstairs crawl space and hid. Fortunately, she had a .38 caliber revolver. She would need it. The intruder worked his way upstairs, broke through a locked bedroom door and a locked bathroom door, and opened the crawl space door. The family was cornered with no place to run. He stood staring at her and her two children. The mother shot six times, hitting the intruder five times, when she ran out of ammunition. Though injured, the intruder was not incapacitated. Fortunately, he decided to flee.

The second instance is viewable here):

Another reason for larger magazines is that defenders are always at a disadvantage due to the fact that criminals get to choose a time and place for attack that advantages the criminals. A defender may not have a chance to grab extra magazines, or as Judge Benitez pointed out above, may not even have a pocket to put them in. In this next video, note the extended magazine the criminal has -- why should law abiding citizens be placed at a disadvantage? And if you think forcing the law abiding to have low capacity mags will stop criminals from having them, alcohol prohibition and the drug war would like to have a chat with you. Prohibitions not only don't work, they expand violence because those who would illegally deal in contraband, use violence as a business tool.

 

[Flymph]

Should suicide or attempted suicide be counted as murder or attempted murder?
Should they be treated the same way?
Should people not be afforded the liberty to take their own life without prejudice?

One for the ages!

 

[titsonritz]

These days it's not gonna happen ala much of anything.

In there lies the problem.

 

[Kruel J]

In there lies the problem.

With feelings seemingly more important than facts these days, it's a problem without a solution.....

 

[titsonritz]

I'm still trying to understand the need for large magazines ...

Just because you're slow on the uptake how is that anyone else's problem?

Same thing goes for those that choose to cower in fear awaiting execution instead of defending themselves, fine, far-out, that's their choice, do not crap on my rights to choose a different path and shoot the puke and to so with STANDARD capacity magazine.

 

[bbbass]

Lets keep it friendly. By all means have a strong debate but lets keep away from any personal attacks...thank you in advance.

I'm not feeling friendly when I think an imposter is in our midst. Happenings seem to bring them out. But I have deleted a portion of my post. I'm still not taking the word "you" out tho.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

For simplistic sake ,
I would ask those who are in favor of more laws , bans , requirements etc...
This :
Almost every firearm law since 1934 has been a variation of "You can't own this or do this any longer"....
Yet we still have crime...folks shooting others , harming others , killing others and themselves with guns.
My question :
Why would yet another variation of a "You can't own this or do this any longer " law or ban ...work this time....?
Andy

 

[JRuby]

A gun doesn't get off of the table, load itself, go down to the schoolyard, etc.... and start pulling it's own trigger. Duh, it's an object.

It's about the person behind the trigger. He/she is to blame for the mayhem, injuries, Murder. etc..... Putting a person in prison for a crime is justifiable. Or as a case might be: the Death Penalty, for Murder. You'd be hard-pressed to convince me that due to a very small minority of the misusage of a product....then, all of those products should be made illegal.

Not to mention, the 2nd A specifically says, ".....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Aloha, Mark

A tool is neither good nor bad it is simply a tool thats purpose is determined by the individual who uses it. Nothing more or less.