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Washington Should suicides be included in gun-death statistics?

gmerkt

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The gun-owning community is going to have to figure out how to deal with the demographic changes coming to the U.S
Immigrants mostly come from places where private gun ownership is unknown. So we can't expect a great influx of gun-friendly people. In fact, many come from places where guns are only in the hands of bad people (crooks and government) so this automatically causes them to experience "gun alarm." No, they won't swell the membership of the NRA. However, I've met a few over the years who, upon coming here and experiencing "gun freedom" happily embraced it. Last time I was at an organized range, there were public shooters there wearing the Sikh turban.

Re. RedRover's lengthy (not complaining) post.

So, technically “gun violence” is not 40,000 annually but rather 6,800.

Still too many? Now let’s look how those deaths spanned across the nation.

555 homicides (8.2%) were in Chicago.
Contrast the "mass shootings" to the accumulation of shootings in Chicago. Just this past weekend, there were 7 people killed and 46 wounded by violent gunfire in Chicago. Surely that count is greater than your average mass shooting. Yes, there is some noise from time to time about this issue in Chicago. But it goes on, week after week, in a city and a state that don't have many miracles left in their tool belt to limit firearms.

If you look at the five cities listed in RedRover's post, you will recognize that all have common denominators. The social ills that afflict these cities are nothing new and policy makers have been addressing them for decades with limited success. It would be fair to say these societal problems have greatly contributed to "gun violence" in these cities.

I would just add that to focus on heart disease
Without meaning this in an entirely humorous context, if the establishment is allowed to tell us how to live our lives with or without guns, the next thing they will tell us is that we have to turn in our Fritos and Franz Party Animals. Think about it, they are telling us how to live our lives.
 
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[by professor dickhead:]
The gun is a great equalizer because it makes wimps as dangerous as people who really have skill and bravery and so I’d like to have this notion that anyone using a gun is a wuss. They aren’t anybody to be looked up to. They’re somebody to look down at because they couldn’t defend themselves or couldn’t protect others without using a gun."
The man talks like people don't age, don't get injured in life, don't get arthritis or bad knees. What a creep to call some 80 yo frail grandma a wuss. If when he's 70 and gets mugged and breaks a hip as a result, I wonder if he will be so smug.
 

gmerkt

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Suicides are a mental health problem
I disagree with this idea in part. That part which pertains to persons with an impending fatal disease. WA state has already legalized suicide under certain conditions via the Death with Dignity law. However, to get approval for that, natural death must be expected within a specified period of time. There are some conditions that could exceed that specific time period yet result in miserable suffering. Such as ALS, for example. There are conditions, beyond a certain point, which cause the patient to lose control over their own wishes. So they may need to exercise those wishes before the expiration of a time horizon to avoid misery. This is why I consider suicide under these conditions to be a legitimate, self-prescribed medical solution which so far the law has not addressed.

Surely I do not think it benefits society for a 14 year old girl experiencing taunting at school to resort to suicide. And yes, there are self-destructive urges that may be ascribed to mental disorder. Including temporary mental stress. Proper treatment for these kinds of cases can result in outcomes other than suicide.
 
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I retired from Calif Highway Patrol after 32 yrs. CHP policy was that if the "traffic collision" or "accident" was the result of an intentional act like suicide or a , criminal assault, then it was the local law PD or SO to handle. If the scene was on a roadway, then we would assist with traffic control, and maybe do the diagram.
Likewise, before CHP I worked for a local PD. 4 mths on the job there we had a school shooting. High school student went off campus, bought a 12 ga shotgun and ammo, came back to the school and shot and wounded two students, took a teacher hostage, fire a couple of rounds into a classroom ceiling before surrendering. Yet you won't find it in any listing of school shootings. 1) nobody died and 2) since the student did not know anything about firearms, the clerk at the sporting good store sold him a box of #10 or #12 shot (is that correct) duck or pheasant loads. Wounds on the two students shot amount to a bad insect bite.

So I think suicides should be a separate category.
 

arakboss

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The deception is especially evident in magazine ban rhetoric where using the suicide numbers is completely misleading. A suicide requires a magazine capacity of one, so limiting magazine size is 100% useless.
Or three in case of guy up in WA who killed his ill wife first. The first two shots must have hurt.
 
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Some would commit suicide without a gun. How many would do that we don't know. But I think, despite the media frenzy, Neil Tyson was on to something. Banning fatty foods would reduce heart disease. Requiring six months of drivers training every 5 years would probably reduce automobile deaths ( on and on and on )

[B]Neil deGrasse Tyson[/B]‏

In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings. On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose… 500 to Medical errors 300 to the Flu 250 to Suicide 200 to Car Accidents 40 to Homicide via Handgun Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.
Ask people who committed suicide in a particular forest in Japan if they would commit suicide without a gun....
 
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If both sides dig in their heels and won't talk to each other , nothing happens , but that might be considered a win.
Hence, the large push to disarm the American populace. Because at the end of the day - “digging the heels in” only matters if you have some way to back it up and prevent someone else’s will from being forced upon you.

The anti-freedom party is a communist sham masquerading as a donkey. They know they have diverged so far off the path that in order to win with their current snake oil, they have to either change the rules of the game, or import people too stupid to know better.

American firearm ownership is simply one of the last roadblocks in their way of enacting whatever aims they seek, because when the ‘state’ has firearms and the public doesn’t. It makes the state able to enact statutes that would have never flown before. Look to UK where people get arrested for Facebook posts that hurt other people’s feelings.

The new communist party has done a great job of helping America take one bite at a time, but the major roadblock is all the people (who aren’t sheep) saying, “nope, not this man’s firearms.”

People are entitled to their opinion, and in America, we can even generally express it without issue, however,

Having ones head shoved up ones own rear and then stating it’s unreasonable or not understandable for others not to follow suit, it’s not a compelling argument.

Many folks also find difficulty with the ‘state’ imposing their will upon them in general, being elected doesn’t automatically convey a plethora of wisdom or knowledge on any subject. Lots of people have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to firearms, laws, and rates of crime. Part of the problem with any discussion about firearms is generally the people who are advocating for curtailing rights are some of the most firearm illiterate people in the country, or have an agenda to achieve despite how many times their argument is completely demolished.
 
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I agree that when you look at suicides they are qualitatively different ....when you go out to the mall with your family you're not generally exposed to risk from somebody contemplating suicide although there is the occasional death by cop but most of those suicides are somebody who shot themselves in their bedroom ......in many of those cases the family members and relatives are to blame for not taking some kind of action ahead of time.
I'm still trying to understand the need for large magazines ....let's just leave out of the argument those that think they need them because the government is going to send their black helmeted squads into your living room to confiscate your guns .......for self-defense generally in the home and for hunting you don't need a 15-round magazine .....if you do you're such a poor shot you

You make very cookie cutter assertions, and when I hear people speak in the manner as you have, it raises my hackles.
Your a member since 2015 very low interaction with the group and this is the nonsense you chime in about.
Screenshot_20190819-074702.png
 
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You make very cookie cutter assertions, and when I hear people speak in the manner as you have, it raises my hackles.
Your a member since 2015 very low interaction with the group and this is the nonsense you chime in about.
 
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