Serious question to Obama voters about the second amendment

[RoneKiln]

I voted Libertarian. But I'll admit I honestly didn't think Obama would go after 2nd amendment rights and I argued as such several times. Not because I had faith in him, but because I thought he'd bitten off too much already and wouldn't dare expend the political capitol to try. Then Sandy Hook dropped right in his lap and it looked for a bit like he had the political capitol to try it. To be honest, on the 2nd amendment front I am glad Obama was in office instead of Romney. I honestly believe Romney would also have pushed for a rifle ban and enough Republicans would have fallen in line with him. I don't think the fierce opposition the Republicans showed Obama was really over our rights. They just wanted to fight with the Democrats. Which worked for us this time.

I have many friends that voted for Obama for reasons completely unrelated to gun rights. Most of them are disappointed in him, but still think he's been a lesser evil than Romney would have been. We didn't exactly have great options the last several elections. I really liked McCain back in 2000, but I think the train wreck that was Bush's presidency broke him. He didn't run a very good campaign in '08. And this last election the Republicans practically campaigned for Obama with the incredibly stupid things they kept saying. I come from Montana ranch families. Mention environmentalism and they start yelling at you. Say a single good thing about a democrat and you'd better be ready to duck. Yet the summer before the election they were all out at my brother's wedding ranting about how atrocious the Republicans were acting and saying they were finally going to vote Democrat. A pity they were trapped in that two party system mindset and wouldn't vote independent. Maybe if we stopped voting for the lesser evil we might start getting better candidates. Might take 3 or 4 elections for it to sink in, but it would be worth trying. Cause the direction things are going now have me wondering if my grandkids will have to grow up in a 3rd world nation.

 

[Riot]

WOW still blaming Bush LIberals never take personal responsibility to "corrrect" taking out liberty.

Would you have complained about the PATRIOT Act if Clinton was President?

How about instead of ObamaCare we had RomneyCare?

I used to be a big Bush fan...tax cuts, raise in Military pay, the whole "you're either with us or against us" stance...but did he do things to errode our economy? Yup. Did he do things to errode our Constitutional rights? Yup.

So before you blindly jump in his corner, realize that he isn't a saint either. This blind devotion that Obama can do no wrong is just as bad as Bush could do no wrong, either.

Would Romney have been a better President? Maybe...maybe instead of taking our gun rights there would be no longer be an open and free internet.

We creep slowly into Totaltarianism everyday, regardless if it's Blue or Red in the chair doing it...yet we blame the other side of the coin when they're both just as equally to blame.

 

[U201491]

can you please explain what you said, or i just can't read right

Everything about him is fake except the "Marxist" title he bears !

 

[DMax]

Would you have complained about the PATRIOT Act if Clinton was President?

How about instead of ObamaCare we had RomneyCare?

I used to be a big Bush fan...tax cuts, raise in Military pay, the whole "you're either with us or against us" stance...but did he do things to errode our economy? Yup. Did he do things to errode our Constitutional rights? Yup.

So before you blindly jump in his corner, realize that he isn't a saint either. This blind devotion that Obama can do no wrong is just as bad as Bush could do no wrong, either.

Would Romney have been a better President? Maybe...maybe instead of taking our gun rights there would be no longer be an open and free internet.

We creep slowly into Totaltarianism everyday, regardless if it's Blue or Red in the chair doing it...yet we blame the other side of the coin when they're both just as equally to blame.

I do realize its both sides and I am not a huge Bush fan. The left does not they will still defend there leader until death and blaming the other side when its clear its there side that is the current issue takes the truth off the current dictator at least for the low information voter. Who is the real problem with todays constitutional distruction.

 

[Siglvr]

There was only one Presidential candidate in the race that HAD actually signed (twice) anti-gun legislation, his name was Mitt Romney. PolitiFact | Did Mitt Romney flip-flop on gun control?

There was also only 1 candidate who had installed government healthcare. Google "Romneycare" to learn more on that. Furthermore, Romneys main talking point was talking of reducing taxes for the rich. The fact that I would have personally benefited in no way made it a good thing for the country. I voted libertarian, and am not considered an Obama supporter by anyone who personally knows me, but I think that Obama was the better choice than Romney for the country. As far as gun control goes I agree as noted above, Romney would have caved and we would have some serious restrictions with the Reps and dems coming together for more "successful bipartisanship" and they would have stuffed it down our throats.

I find it interesting that my pre-election post with all the candidates gun positions extolling Libertarian ex-New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson as the only actual gun supporter was deleted by a moderator for being political.

It's been quite some time, but regardless, I'm not sure why it's ok to discuss Presidential candidates gun control records on NWFA AFTER it's too late to do anything about it, and not before. Seems backwards to me.

Regards

 

[Suge206]

Voted for him twice. Im not opposed to stricter regulations per se, just depends on what they are. He's expanded gun rights with opening carry in national parks. The UN treaty that will probably never be ratified has nothing to do with legal sales within the US.

 

[mancat]

Voted for him twice. Im not opposed to stricter regulations per se, just depends on what they are. He's expanded gun rights with opening carry in national parks. The UN treaty that will probably never be ratified has nothing to do with legal sales within the US.

 

[Brutus57]

Well, Romney lost. He was too nice a guy and too safe of a candidate. The repubs shot themselves in the foot with choosing him. They should have picked another candidate earlier during the cycle, pulled off the gloves and hammered on Obama's flaws, they didn't, and now were f**ked until 2014 when we have a chance to hit the brakes somewhat on this impending trainwreck. If we value the 2nd and the rest of the BoR and Constitution we have to all vote for whoever is running against the Dems. And let's face it. Most dems these days are pretty liberal. We have no Warren Magnuson or Scoop Jacksons left here in the NW. Moderate Democrats are as scarce a .22LR ammo.

Brutus Out

 

[Caveman Jim]

I did not vote for the lesser of 2 evils and America should not either!!! We have to take into account that if we just sit here complacently and let our country get further and further out of control that we can blame no one but ourselves for it. That being said the R's have split (conservatives-Tea party) and that is giving the leftist lemmings the most votes. Like it or not, this IS what is happening!!! Think about it seriously.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Voted for him twice. Im not opposed to stricter regulations per se, just depends on what they are. He's expanded gun rights with opening carry in national parks. The UN treaty that will probably never be ratified has nothing to do with legal sales within the US.

Really?!... :huh:
...uhg.

 

[rufus]

I did not vote for the lesser of 2 evils and America should not either!!! We have to take into account that if we just sit here complacently and let our country get further and further out of control that we can blame no one but ourselves for it. That being said the R's have split (conservatives-Tea party) and that is giving the leftist lemmings the most votes. Like it or not, this IS what is happening!!! Think about it seriously.

So true. The mainstream GOP is no longer conservative.

 

[rufus]

Voted for him twice. Im not opposed to stricter regulations per se, just depends on what they are. He's expanded gun rights with opening carry in national parks. The UN treaty that will probably never be ratified has nothing to do with legal sales within the US.

And you can keep your doctor.

 

[Suge206]

And you can keep your doctor.

that was really, really dumb of them to not be upfront about that. How they didn't know that would blow up on them I have no idea.

 

[Grunwald]

There was only one Presidential candidate in the race that HAD actually signed (twice) anti-gun legislation, his name was Mitt Romney. PolitiFact | Did Mitt Romney flip-flop on gun control?

There was also only 1 candidate who had installed government healthcare. Google "Romneycare" to learn more on that. Furthermore, Romneys main talking point was talking of reducing taxes for the rich. The fact that I would have personally benefited in no way made it a good thing for the country. I voted libertarian, and am not considered an Obama supporter by anyone who personally knows me, but I think that Obama was the better choice than Romney for the country. As far as gun control goes I agree as noted above, Romney would have caved and we would have some serious restrictions with the Reps and dems coming together for more "successful bipartisanship" and they would have stuffed it down our throats.

I find it interesting that my pre-election post with all the candidates gun positions extolling Libertarian ex-New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson as the only actual gun supporter was deleted by a moderator for being political.

It's been quite some time, but regardless, I'm not sure why it's ok to discuss Presidential candidates gun control records on NWFA AFTER it's too late to do anything about it, and not before. Seems backwards to me.

Regards

You do know that what is OK at the state level is not OK at the federal level?
That is what the 10th Amendment is about.
RomneyCare might have been a bad piece of legislation, but it was done in one state. A mistake easily remedied. If it does not work people will move out of the state, and states are a lot more flexible about correcting these sorts of errors.
Once something has been shoved down the nation's throat at the federal level there is no hope for fixing it..... And you can't really move away from it that easily either.

I can say with 100% certainty that Romney would have been a much better president than Obama. Heck Forest Gump would have been better than Obama. Romney at least knows how a capitalist system works. Obama still has not a clue.

 

[Grunwald]

that was really, really dumb of them to not be upfront about that. How they didn't know that would blow up on them I have no idea.

A narcissist does not care. Obama is nothing but a fast talking street hustler that's too dumb to know any better. If the media was not functioning as his propaganda department he would have never won the first election nor the second.
Had the Bush administration been responsible for Fast & Furious that would have been the daily front cover story in NYT and its sister publications. Same is true for all the major networks' newsrooms. Each nightly news would be running a special feature on their investigation into the gun running.
The news media is extremely biased. It shows most not in the stories they cover but rather the stories they choose NOT to cover.

 

[tacticalgunner]

that was really, really dumb of them to not be upfront about that. How they didn't know that would blow up on them I have no idea.

I am certain obamacare was passed and expected to fail, fail so hard that the only way to rectify is with a single payer system. They all knew it would not work, but the American people wanted what we are getting. Republicans are so weak they don't stand a chance, tea party is dividing the party so much that the party will dissolve within the next 8'years. The libertarians are so close to anarchy that they won't stand a chance either. For the true conservatives, we are having a hard time finding a party. Americans don't vote for God and country anymore, they vote for celebrate status and who will give them everything that feels right and is free. Folks, nothings for free, but free is what builds the brand, never known a drug dealer to charge a kid for the first time try.

 

[simon99]

Voted for him twice. Im not opposed to stricter regulations per se, just depends on what they are. He's expanded gun rights with opening carry in national parks. The UN treaty that will probably never be ratified has nothing to do with legal sales within the US.

I'm not going to bash you, but as you mention that you're "not opposed to stricter regulations per se, just depends on what they are."
What do you mean by that?
I really, really hope you realize and understand that the US has one of the most highly regulated firearm system of laws in the world, yet one of the weakest enforcement systems.

 

[deen_ad]

There was only one Presidential candidate in the race that HAD actually signed (twice) anti-gun legislation, his name was Mitt Romney. PolitiFact | Did Mitt Romney flip-flop on gun control?

As I remember the NRA came out and said the did sign some gun legislation, but in the end it actually loosened the laws of his predecessor. So on the surface it appeared he signed anti-gun legislation (thanks to the "misleading" news media) when he actually didn't.

 

[deen_ad]

never known a drug dealer to charge a kid for the first time try.

I've never know a drug dealer !!


Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
Defender of Freedom Award
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[RoneKiln]

You do know that what is OK at the state level is not OK at the federal level?
That is what the 10th Amendment is about.
RomneyCare might have been a bad piece of legislation, but it was done in one state. A mistake easily remedied. If it does not work people will move out of the state, and states are a lot more flexible about correcting these sorts of errors.
Once something has been shoved down the nation's throat at the federal level there is no hope for fixing it..... And you can't really move away from it that easily either.

I can say with 100% certainty that Romney would have been a much better president than Obama. Heck Forest Gump would have been better than Obama. Romney at least knows how a capitalist system works. Obama still has not a clue.

Some things at the state level are ok that are not ok at the federal level. Violating my constitutional rights is not one of them. Requiring me to buy a product solely because I breathe is just as unconstitutional at the state level as at the federal level. Same as with my gun rights, freedom of speech, due process, etc. Romney cooperated with limiting firearm rights in his state that I consider unconstitutional. He instituted a health system that was just as unconstitutional at the state level as at the federal level.

It's possible that you are right about him being a better president. I doubt it, but I'm willing to back down as we'll never know for sure. I do know that he infringed on his constituents rights as a governor, and it really disturbs me that he was the best our supposedly conservative party could give us.