Selling FTF

[SSG]

In reality, every gun you ever sold could be found next to a dead body, at a crime scene...and when that happens...

Detectives go to a computer and it's tracked to the last dealer that had it, then it goes from there...and trust me, when a detective comes to your house..and asks who you sold that gun to(because it was found next to a dead body) telling them you lost it, gave it away, or let it go in a poker game doesn't fly...

Some peeps loose big $ by dumping guns at pawn shops and gun stores for the piece of mind knowing that...those guns are now out of their lives forever...

When I sell a gun, I get an ODL, and we each sign a bill of sale, with a little statement that he say's he's legal to own a gun.

A CHL is best...but we should just have a website or something to check and see who we are selling to is legit...would make it easy...they could also do it like cars, just turn in a piece of paper that we transferred this gun to X...done...

On the flip side, buying a stolen gun, getting caught with it, and pleading ignorance doesn't work...these days you have to prove innocence rather then them prove guilt..

 

[KENOC]

In reality, every gun you ever sold could be found next to a dead body, at a crime scene...and when that happens...

Detectives go to a computer and it's tracked to the last dealer that had it, then it goes from there...and trust me, when a detective comes to your house..and asks who you sold that gun to(because it was found next to a dead body) telling them you lost it, gave it away, or let it go in a poker game doesn't fly...

Some peeps loose big $ by dumping guns at pawn shops and gun stores for the piece of mind knowing that...those guns are now out of their lives forever...

When I sell a gun, I get an ODL, and we each sign a bill of sale, with a little statement that he say's he's legal to own a gun.

A CHL is best...but we should just have a website or something to check and see who we are selling to is legit...would make it easy...they could also do it like cars, just turn in a piece of paper that we transferred this gun to X...done...

On the flip side, buying a stolen gun, getting caught with it, and pleading ignorance doesn't work...these days you have to prove innocence rather then them prove guilt..

THat is why you do a bill of sale, to cover yourself, but I just cannot imagine ever allowing you or anyone to copy my DL# down. May as well give you my SS # too while we are at it. No Way. If someone ever got all those DL#'s you collect, they would have a partial jackpot in identity theft. Nothing personal, but i just would never give my DL# to ANYONE that I did not have to.

 

[Gunner3456]

In reality, every gun you ever sold could be found next to a dead body, at a crime scene...and when that happens...

Detectives go to a computer and it's tracked to the last dealer that had it, then it goes from there...and trust me, when a detective comes to your house..and asks who you sold that gun to(because it was found next to a dead body) telling them you lost it, gave it away, or let it go in a poker game doesn't fly...

Some peeps loose big $ by dumping guns at pawn shops and gun stores for the piece of mind knowing that...those guns are now out of their lives forever...

When I sell a gun, I get an ODL, and we each sign a bill of sale, with a little statement that he say's he's legal to own a gun.

A CHL is best...but we should just have a website or something to check and see who we are selling to is legit...would make it easy...they could also do it like cars, just turn in a piece of paper that we transferred this gun to X...done...

On the flip side, buying a stolen gun, getting caught with it, and pleading ignorance doesn't work...these days you have to prove innocence rather then them prove guilt..

OK, I see your point.

Now, what's wrong with just getting a bill of sale with his printed and then signed name after you see his ODL and maybe even his CCW for ID and proof of residency?

Since even the bill of sale isn't required by law, but rather just that you verify he's an Oregon resident of age (in Oregon) why isn't the visual verification of who he is and his age and then getting his name and signature more than enough? Why is he required to let someone have his ODL, especially in these times of ID theft?

Everyone has a perfect right to make his own "rules" and I respect that, but it's cost some guys gun sales here. I don't argue your right to make your rules and stick to them.

 

[mortre]

I have to admit that I would be very, very hesitant give someone a copy of my DL, or CHL. I have no problems showing them if the seller ask's though. I might do it, on a case by case basis. But suddenly asking for it would already be a strike in my book, that sort of thing is how phishing schemes work. Show something someone else wants(for sale add), build a minor relationship and garner trust(discussing the sale, send pictures etc.), meet and schmooze a little and then spring a seemingly innocent request before allowing the person to get what they desire. I would have no problems with signing a bill of sell most likely, although included a printed copy of my name would also make me balk.

I would say make sure that everything you decide to require should be placed in the For Sale posting. If you just show up for an agreed upon sale or trade and asked for this sort of stuff, I would politely let you know that you are making me uncomfortable and that I no longer want to continue with this deal.

 

[rdb241]

I have a FTF question...I recently did a transaction with Gas here on this forum. I got caught in traffic and was about 15 minutes late. Thanx too Gas, he stuck around and everything went OK. My question is...when doing a FTF and one of the parties are late. How long should one or the other wait on the second party?

 

[ZachS]

I just completed my first FTF transaction using the bill of sale form on here. It happens to have a spot for both buyer's and seller's DL #s, so they're written down. It's not something I'd insist on, though, if a buyer felt uncomfortable about including it. If they had a really common name I'd probably note their city and age too. Doesn't matter a whole lot to me, as the thing's just getting shoved into the back of my filing cabinet never to be seen again.

 

[djm68]

In reality, every gun you ever sold could be found next to a dead body, at a crime scene...and when that happens...

Detectives go to a computer and it's tracked to the last dealer that had it, then it goes from there...and trust me, when a detective comes to your house..and asks who you sold that gun to(because it was found next to a dead body) telling them you lost it, gave it away, or let it go in a poker game doesn't fly...

I am curious if you have actual knowledge of such a case -- personally or otherwise? I do not discount your claim; however, it is important to know your rights.

If one did indeed (legally) sell a gun that wound up at a crime scene, what are the detectives going to do to you? Unless they have good reason to arrest you (you were involved in the crime), you do not even need to allow them in your home.

Having said that, I do ask for ODL and I do record the info. I do not ask for them to sign a bill of sale. I've only sold two guns FTF and while I think it is important for my own piece of mind to get their information, I thought it more important to "check" them out via email, phone, and in person. Each FTF transaction was with people who were clearly, IMO, not criminals. In fact, one person made his first ever gun purchase from me -- he and I now stay in contact via email and will likely do some shoot together.

One more point no-one has mentioned -- just remember, that all of your digital communications (ie email) are archived for quite a long time and (if you use gmail, they are archived forever) provide another source of proof for a the sale of a gun.

Just my thoughts....

Cheers,
DJM

 

[SquackDaddy]

Wow, where do some of you guys buy your tin-foil hats?

 

[Gunner3456]

Wow, where do some of you guys buy your tin-foil hats?

You can't buy good ones. They aren't thick enough. I make my own.

 

[NK777]

I have a FTF question...I recently did a transaction with Gas here on this forum. I got caught in traffic and was about 15 minutes late. Thanx too Gas, he stuck around and everything went OK. My question is...when doing a FTF and one of the parties are late. How long should one or the other wait on the second party?

That's really up to you. If it were me I would wait at least the 15 minutes and probably longer if you called me and told me you were running late unless I had another apointment anyways. I'd get grumpy if you were more then 15 minutes late though. Nobody likes to wait.

 

[Redcap]

Wow, where do some of you guys buy your tin-foil hats?

Three stores down from where you bought your rose-colored glasses.

 

[Gunner3456]

Three stores down from where you bought your rose-colored glasses.

The winner of the best answer award.

 

[NK777]

Three stores down from where you bought your rose-colored glasses.

BawHaHaHa

 

[SquackDaddy]

Three stores down from where you bought your rose-colored glasses.

Just because I don't believe everyone is "out to get me" doesn't mean I'm wearing rose colored glasses. I believe that the chances of someone you sell a firearm to using your ODL# for something sinister is pretty darn small. It is ultimately up to YOU to be sure of who you are selling to. If they give you a bad vibe, then don't follow thru with the sale.

Like a previous poster mentioned, you put WAY more info on a form 4473 than your ODL. I, personally have no problem filling that information out for a gun sale. To me, if doing this makes you decide not to follow thru on a FTF gun purchase, maybe it's YOU that has something to hide.

 

[NK777]

Just because I don't believe everyone is "out to get me" doesn't mean I'm wearing rose colored glasses. I believe that the chances of someone you sell a firearm to using your ODL# for something sinister is pretty darn small. It is ultimately up to YOU to be sure of who you are selling to. If they give you a bad vibe, then don't follow thru with the sale.

just because we know our rights and also know there are criminals in the world does not make us a paranoid either. It just makes us a wee bit more careful doesn't it SquackDaddy. An FTF transaction often happens in a parking lot where you know little to nothing about who your dealing with. It can not and should not be compared to purchasing a firearm in your local well established and spoken for gun shop. That is a rediculous comparison and a poor attempt at suporting your opinion.

 

[usfatboy01]

You are not required to keep any records of the sale.

You can if you want, not that any of them are legally binding (informational only).

You can sell to anyone that you wish to as long as:
1) They are a resident of your state and,
2) They are older than 18 and,
3) You have no reason to believe that they cannot own a firearm

That's it. There's no requirement for documentation, ID, background check, endless hoops. There are tools available (see previous posts) if you choose to use them.

+1

 

[Gunner3456]

Just because I don't believe everyone is "out to get me" doesn't mean I'm wearing rose colored glasses. I believe that the chances of someone you sell a firearm to using your ODL# for something sinister is pretty darn small. It is ultimately up to YOU to be sure of who you are selling to. If they give you a bad vibe, then don't follow thru with the sale.

Like a previous poster mentioned, you put WAY more info on a form 4473 than your ODL. I, personally have no problem filling that information out for a gun sale. To me, if doing this makes you decide not to follow thru on a FTF gun purchase, maybe it's YOU that has something to hide.

When I buy from an FFL I have reason to believe he'll protect that paperwork for his own needs and records.

I'll bet you're so trusting that you don't own any guns or ammo because no one is out to get you? After all, you don't believe that "everyone" is "out to get you?"

Maybe if I had both a tin foil hat and rose colored glasses I'd have all my bases covered and an Alfred E. Newman outlook? ("What, me worry?")

You can't write down my ODL. Period. It's your right not to sell me the gun and I won't argue that. Just please don't take away my right not to let you write it down, OK? Just keep your gun and I'll keep my money, OK?

Thanks.

 

[SquackDaddy]

I guess I am a little trusting on my end. Being a former FFL (9 years) I guess I am in the habit of taking down this information. I still feel that the chances of someone you sell FTF to using your ODL is extremely insignificant, but I do agree it could happen.
If you were to purchase a firearm from me, I would not DEMAND that you share that info, but I would need to see your ODL to ensure that you were a resident of Oregon.

Here is a question: would you be upset if I wrote down your vehicle plate number?

 

[NK777]

Paranoia runs deep here.

The reckless abandon is strong in this one MmmmHmmmm...

 

[supergenius]

Popcorn. Im a bit paranoid, but if I dont have to share my personal info, SURE as **** dont see a need to do so.