Seeking a criminal mind's perspective... from the good guys

[supergenius]

Criminals take the path of least resistance and pick the weakest victims, those who say open carry makes one more a target of a criminal just don't understand the criminal mind.

Since when did bullies pick on people bigger, stronger and tougher than themselves? Never that's when.

As for crazies, you can't predict what they will do and since they live in there own world/reality what you are doing does not play a part in the actions they will take, their actions are truly random and I want a gun handy when they do snap.

I agree about 97 percent with this.. And I understand the criminal mind well...

A bit off topic, I MUCH prefer CC, however I give a crap less about printing, and when my shirt comes up or whatever and may expose my weapon, i just non chalantly recover it. Never have I ever even been asked a ?.


With or without a gun concealed or not, its ALWAYS about how you carry yourself.

 

[spengo]

And I understand the criminal mind well...

Now what exactly do you mean by that

 

[zeppelin]

Any time your are open carrying you stand the risk of someone trying to take your gun. This is why weapon retention training is so important if you are a cop. Case and point: When I was a cop in the USAF overseas (1973) we had a swing shift flight chief arrest a drunk deserter, and while booking him in front of the desk sergeant the drunk deserter grabbed the flight chief's .38 special (S&W Model 15) out of his holster, and put it to the flight chief's head. The desk seargent (actually a very young airman first class) drew his weapon and shot the drunk deserter through the elbow of his gun arm. The bullet passed through his elbow and bounced off the concrete wall behind. The drunk deserter dropped the gun and ran out into the operations complex, but the dog teams and security guys from the flight line responded to the desk sergeant's duress alarm and made quick work of him. We saw the bullet scar on the wall and heard all about it when we reported for guardmount the next morning. Pretty smooth gun handling by a guy that was barely out of high school. Story we got was he just drew his gun and shot--one time.

 

[Celtic Armory]

Any time your are open carrying you stand the risk of someone trying to take your gun. ...[snip]

I have always carried with a positive retention system holster for this very reason and learned weapon retention too. Situational awareness is also a must. A criminal would be very hard pressed to take my sidearm from me. My holster that I use with my XD and my 1911 is the Blackhawk Serpa CQC.

 

[odiesplace97301]

I carry cc when in towns and cities, mostly oc in the woods. Either way you choose train to use and retain your weapon.

 

[John Davis]

I can't say I am big fan of OC...but I support other's rights to do it...I just happen to know that most OC guys are just trying to grab some attention....

As far as OC being a magnet for criminals...just the opposite, criminals are are predators looking for the easy target...not the armed guy that is obviously walking around very aware of his OC status, very aware of people looking at him....

From a tactical perspective...you look like a tough guy, walk like a bad ***, you can carry a gun, whatever...and most of the time that get's you some 'respect' and out of harms way...but there might come a time where you have to actually do more then pose...

 

[supergenius]

Now what exactly do you mean by that

Let your imagination run WILD.

 

[Trlsmn]

 

[56kninja]

As a person who might be a stalker.. I think they gun makes you weaker.. Any good stalker will get the gun from you.

You average criminal? They don't want to shoot you and they don't want to get shot. They'll pick the target they know will be easier..

That is unless they want their gun and are daring enough.

I'd consider that with two five year olds, it would be near impossible to watch both of them, and keep yourself on guard...

It doesn't take much to snatch a gun from a side holster. I run at a park, and when there are events they sometimes patrol the area. I noticed that when I run, they look behind, watch me, and put their hand on their gun and then step aside. Basically they don't want to let me get behind them. I usually get as much distance as I can to let them know I'm not a threat and help put them at ease.

 

[Scott]

I can say in San Diego and L.A. if you were to open carry if it were legal you would end up dead most likely. I have been here for 6 years but there is no comparison to those cities in reguards to gangs. I am talking Mexian Mafia, Crips, Bloods, MS13, plus many others and I am talking hardcore criminals that would kill you in a heartbeat if they saw your gun. I feel like I am in heaven compared to those places. By the way I was only there because of the military so I am not from CA. But this place is very mild and if it were legal there I would not open carry because it would not turn out good. I would not care what holster someone had they will take your gun. Of course this is only if it was legal to open carry there. That would be an interesting day for someone from here if they could do it.

Scott

 

[Chick Holsters]

That would be an interesting day for someone from here if they could do it.

Scott

Hahaha... interesting day indeed... to die. Thank you, but no. No offense to any Californians intended... but I don't cross that state line, unless I have to.

 

[asiparks]

Action is always quicker than reaction. I used to work pub doors in London. Some people saw my role as a challenge, a way to escalate their own self worth or their standing with their peers. I've been in a decent number of fights, simply because someone wanted to pick a fight and a bouncer is an obvious and appealing challenge.
Some fights you can see coming, things escalating, changes in posture, expression, breathing. But some you can't, some seriously off kilter people are very, very good at masking. And it takes your brain a split second to figure out "is this really happening, is it a false alarm, no, I feel pain and disorientation, so yes it is happening, what do I do ?". And in that split second the fight has swung out of your favor and regaining the lead is incredibly hard. Fortunately, you aren't usually working alone and someone else will jump in and save you.

I don't know you, haven't seen you, know nothing about your ability with a pistol or whether you have experience in self defense. And, as a simple criminal opportunist, I might well leave you well alone and look for an easier mark.
Now, I'm a criminal who gets pleasure from the humiliation and subjugation of my victim, one who sees defiance as an affront to my own sense of power, street thug, rapist, serial killer, especially one seeing women as lesser, weak or there for my pleasure, I would take your statement of strength as a direct challenge. I would follow you, maybe over an extended period, seeking the inevitable opportunity where your hands are full, or you're distracted, or when it's dark or there are few witnesses. I either distract you with conversation, occupy your brain space, then attack, or simply come up quietly and quickly behind you and strangle hold you whilst simultaneously taking your gun.
Even if you see me coming, if I'm within 15 feet of you,( i believe 21 feet is the rule), I can very likely drop you before your brain makes sense of the situation and you have a chance to draw your weapon and make a decision whether or not to fire.

So, will you deter the dumb purse thieves and opportunists ?...very probably. Might you make yourself a target for the smarter, more dangerous criminal who likes a challenge ?...very probably. The good news is that there are way more of the former and you are incredibly unlikely to cross paths with the latter . And statistically you're unlikely to meet either unless it's part of your job or you live in a really crappy neighbourhood.

 

[spengo]

interesting... Supergenius knows the criminal mind well... 56Kninja may be a stalker!

On the open carry in California, I thought they do open carry there, but they are not allowed to carry with a loaded magazine. Who knows, that may be a good thing then... lol

Unloaded open carry is legal there, but if you want to do it, expect to have conversations with the police.

 

[supergenius]

interesting... Supergenius knows the criminal mind well...

In the past ten years Ive managed to pull my head out of my ***... Some of my "qualification" to the aforementioned statement has been very sligjhtly outlined in other threads here... Obviously I have a CPL, so the powers that be believe Im OK..... Now... ... And I am.

Wish I wouldnt have went through what i put myself and others through? Completely.

Wish I could do it all over again??? no way, I believe there was a rough lesson in it for me; Making me whom I am today. I tend to have to learn that way.... The hard way. I got "lucky" though... If you believe in luck.

How does the song go??? Lawyers guns and money??? Ya, something like that.

I thank God everyday I made it through what I made it through without any serious life long repercussions.... There are quite a few Ive known who weren't anywhere near as fortunate as I was making it through what we were into without doing ALOT of time, or not being around anymore.

People can change... I'm proof of it, but it wasn't pretty, took a lonnnnng time, and ALOT of work. More often than not, people WONT change...They get to comfy in it (the criminal lifestyle)... It got bad enough mentally and spiritually for me to where my only choice was doing the work to get out, and get right... With myself, my God, and all those who loved me through it all.

Just WANTING to change doesn't mean shinola if you're not willing o DO something about it.


That being said, back then Id be alot more likely to pray on a weak situation, than one that was obviously life threating... ID say 80 percent of the time... The other 20 percent??? Well I could give a F. THATS the most dangerous type of criminal, in ANY genre of the activity.

 

[Chick Holsters]

Action is always quicker than reaction. I used to work pub doors in London. Some people saw my role as a challenge, a way to escalate their own self worth or their standing with their peers. I've been in a decent number of fights, simply because someone wanted to pick a fight and a bouncer is an obvious and appealing challenge.
Some fights you can see coming, things escalating, changes in posture, expression, breathing. But some you can't, some seriously off kilter people are very, very good at masking. And it takes your brain a split second to figure out "is this really happening, is it a false alarm, no, I feel pain and disorientation, so yes it is happening, what do I do ?". And in that split second the fight has swung out of your favor and regaining the lead is incredibly hard. Fortunately, you aren't usually working alone and someone else will jump in and save you.

I don't know you, haven't seen you, know nothing about your ability with a pistol or whether you have experience in self defense. And, as a simple criminal opportunist, I might well leave you well alone and look for an easier mark.
Now, I'm a criminal who gets pleasure from the humiliation and subjugation of my victim, one who sees defiance as an affront to my own sense of power, street thug, rapist, serial killer, especially one seeing women as lesser, weak or there for my pleasure, I would take your statement of strength as a direct challenge. I would follow you, maybe over an extended period, seeking the inevitable opportunity where your hands are full, or you're distracted, or when it's dark or there are few witnesses. I either distract you with conversation, occupy your brain space, then attack, or simply come up quietly and quickly behind you and strangle hold you whilst simultaneously taking your gun.
Even if you see me coming, if I'm within 15 feet of you,( i believe 21 feet is the rule), I can very likely drop you before your brain makes sense of the situation and you have a chance to draw your weapon and make a decision whether or not to fire.

So, will you deter the dumb purse thieves and opportunists ?...very probably. Might you make yourself a target for the smarter, more dangerous criminal who likes a challenge ?...very probably. The good news is that there are way more of the former and you are incredibly unlikely to cross paths with the latter . And statistically you're unlikely to meet either unless it's part of your job or you live in a really crappy neighbourhood.

True dat friend--you've spoken my mind probably the best so far out of all these posts. Very well said.

 

[Chick Holsters]

In the past ten years Ive managed to pull my head out of my ***... Some of my "qualification" to the aforementioned statement has been very sligjhtly outlined in other threads here... Obviously I have a CPL, so the powers that be believe Im OK..... Now... ... And I am.

Wish I wouldnt have went through what i put myself and others through? Completely.

Wish I could do it all over again??? no way, I believe there was a rough lesson in it for me; Making me whom I am today. I tend to have to learn that way.... The hard way. I got "lucky" though... If you believe in luck.

How does the song go??? Lawyers guns and money??? Ya, something like that.

I thank God everyday I made it through what I made it through without any serious life long repercussions.... There are quite a few Ive known who weren't anywhere near as fortunate as I was making it through what we were into without doing ALOT of time, or not being around anymore.

People can change... I'm proof of it, but it wasn't pretty, took a lonnnnng time, and ALOT of work. More often than not, people WONT change...They get to comfy in it (the criminal lifestyle)... It got bad enough mentally and spiritually for me to where my only choice was doing the work to get out, and get right... With myself, my God, and all those who loved me through it all.

Just WANTING to change doesn't mean shinola if you're not willing o DO something about it.

Supergenius, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your openess and input in sharing that. You have my respect to a greater degree. Thank you.

That being said, back then Id be alot more likely to pray on a weak situation, than one that was obviously life threating... ID say 80 percent of the time... The other 20 percent??? Well I could give a F. THATS the most dangerous type of criminal, in ANY genre of the activity.

Good to know.

 

[Tuefelhunden]

.

1) If you were a criminal that decided I was your target (stalker type) would you be more deterred by my gun, or see me as a greater challenge to conquer? - A stalker truly intent on you as a target (obsessive) is probably not going to be discouraged and would use the information that you are advertising on your hip to their advantage and tailor their strategy accordingly. As has been mentioned the element of surprise in this scenario would seem to be best.

And/Or..

2) If you were of criminal mind, and you had a crowd of women to pick from, would seeing me with a gun make me more enticing than the rest, or would you choose an easier target?

- To my way of thinking all but the most moronic of criminals would choose the weakest perceived link and not the strongest because it would result in the highest chances of success. In this specific example I would say it would be an obvious deterant.

Broader perspective and speaking only for myself and any possible scenario's I might find myself in I like concealment, the element of surprise and not attracting that kind of attention to myself. I'd prefer to let the way I carry and conduct myself serve as a don't mess with this bull message and the weapon serve as the effective horns if they did not get that message. Good post and interesting reading every ones take.

T

 

[Wenis]

I knew from experience that if you're going to do something, you do it. You don't tell someone you're going to do it. He hesitated, so I knew it was a bluff, and he knew that I knew. It's called "Woofin"...9 out of 10 "Street Crawlers" are going to sense it.

An air of confidence, and body language are the best deterrents. An "I will not be a victim" attitude and body language, along with concealed carry are the best way to not become a victim.

+1

To the Original Post....

...If I saw a woman OC, I would think she's either
1) Very capable, trained, and probably a cop
2) Scared

...so I would observe the way she carries herself. If it's with situation awareness, she's #1. If she's anything else, I'm probably getting that gun and her V card if she's alone. (And no I'm not a criminal, just trying to play the mindset of one).