Seeking a criminal mind's perspective... from the good guys

[Trlsmn]

I am confident that I could assert that "the sky is blue" and Trlsmn would immediately jump in to vigorously argue the contrary. It actually does not matter to him what I say for he must find the opposite view,

Though it may seem that way it is only coincidental.

because we come from different universes and have had very different life experiences, even in the same town! I am pleased that he has never met some of the "successful criminal" people that I have had to deal with!

Ha! if you only knew!

Since when did bullies do "brave" things? Since they began running in packs called "gangs" and needed to impress each other with how courageous and bold they were. They had a lot of free time in jail and so practiced group attacks on "hardened targets". They go to great lengths to impress each other, especially when they get coked-up or flying on meth. Seizing an open-carry gun would be a real feather in their cap! Gangsters daring to shoot cops is a deadly sport in several American cities now.

I too do not go out without a steely friend or two. But I prefer to keep it out of sight and not seen as a potential trophy by groups of bad boys with something to prove to each other.........................elsullo

I think you watch too much TV.

 

[The B]

if i was a criminal, i'd definitely seize the opportunity to grab me another gun.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

if i was a criminal, i'd definitely seize the opportunity to grab me another gun.

Criminals who seek out people carrying guns arent around very long.


Some excerpts from that story.

MILWAUKEE - A Milwaukee man found out the hard way that carrying a gun for protection doesn't always keep you safe. In fact, it may have made him a target.

So, they have no clue. They assume that because neighbors knew he carried, a stranger robbed him because he had a gun. That assumption borders on ludicrous.

The president of Wisconsin Carry, Nik Clark, says 100's of thousands of people open carry and he's never heard of anything like this.

"So it really is a very unusual situation, very unique," Clark said.

Which just goes to show that on your list of things to worry about, this should be at the bottom.

 

[cash$$cow]

My thought is you are somewhere blending in a crowd and crap happens. Some tweaker pulls a gun and some how sees you in the crowd. There mind may go - is she a cop? Why does she have a gun? All of the focus will be you i would think.

 

[The B]

here's another, then...
<broken link removed>

this was on the first page of a google search.

how can anyone think that this sort of stuff doesn't happen? why wouldn't an armed, violent criminal take the opportunity to grab an easy gun?

i personally dont open carry, so i've made no deliberate efforts to research it. i have no data compiled. im really not interested in the topic- OC is nothing short of attention-grabbing silliness, and i'll never be caught doing it among the general public. but i've definitely, over the course of my gun-carrying life, read and heard a handful of reports of this happening. it does happen.

 

[FarmerTed1971]

I personally won't open carry because I think it would draw unwanted attention... whether it be good or bad, it's still unwanted attention. I suppose if I was a woman with two small children with me the attention I'd get might be from people calling to turn me into CSD or something like that. My preference would be to CC... especially if I was a woman. I think you are very brave to open carry, and I tip my hat to you!

 

[spengo]

I personally won't open carry because I think it would draw unwanted attention... whether it be good or bad, it's still unwanted attention. I suppose if I was a woman with two small children with me the attention I'd get might be from people calling to turn me into CSD or something like that. My preference would be to CC... especially if I was a woman. I think you are very brave to open carry, and I tip my hat to you!

I agree with Trlsmn and commend people who are willing to open carry. In general I think criminals will avoid the stronger target. I also think it gives you a tactical advantage in the case of crazies/druggies because of the faster draw. I have open carried on occasion. Usually I do not, however, simply because I dislike the extra attention I get from regular people. I prefer to be an anonymous nobody with nothing that would warrant a second glance when I mingle with the general populous.

 

[candyman]

i think it has more to do with what you look like then if you have a gun
i also think if you open carry and there ever is a gunfight the first few rounds are comming your way whether your involved or not

 

[spengo]

well then you haven't studied the topic. happened to a guy less than a month ago, and happens often enough. gang-banger sees a gun, gang-banger pulls gun and says "gimme yo gun, nigga!"

I think in that type of situation I'd just trust in my amazing (lol...) IPSC/IDPA skills and draw and shoot while backpedaling at a 45-degree angle. Action is faster than reaction and if you are GOING to draw at all, the best time to do so is almost always right away before you have your hands in the air. :gun10:

This is why you should always do your draw + dry fire drills in the morning after your other exercises.

 

[Chick Holsters]

i think it has more to do with what you look like then if you have a gun
i also think if you open carry and there ever is a gunfight the first few rounds are comming your way whether your involved or not

Agreed on the last part. A little unclear on the first part about what you like. You mean how you carry yourself--tough or not?

 

[Chick Holsters]

Sorry if I've ruffled any feathers... but geez you guys are better than watching any movie.

So hands down I agree with all of you like CashCow and Itgoesboom who have basically said, I will be the target and dead girl in the public crowd of people... just for having the gun exposed... should the bad guy come in with the intention of harming people. I think we all agree on that one, unless maybe I see him/them first and get the first shots in.

But I think I'm maybe leaning towards Raftman's statement "So it could be that if you open carry, you decrease your odds of being attacked by the more common type of criminal, when compared to the people around you. But by standing out in a such a way, maybe you increase your odds of being attacked the rarer type." Or something similar... you weed out some with oc, maybe most and yet potentially pick up others--maybe the more aggressive. ??

Again, my encounters that lead me to guns and kept me with guns have been no official reported attacks. And quite possibly my potential attackers may not even have a criminal history. Cuz if they do, they aren't very good at what they do... since I have gotten away each time so far. I've only ever drawn my gun on a guy once in my life (or well only once at least where the guy has known about it) and I hope to never be in that place again.

I will continue to OC until I finish what I started, despite my fear that bkb0000 might be right--at least in the minds of others that "OC is nothing short of attention-grabbing silliness" and I'm bringing that upon myself. As hard as it may be to believe--I hate public attention. And the fear that the general public, especially other parents, would just freak out on me from the mere sight of a gun, causing the public scene that would find me behind bars with "rogue police officers", as Mr. Nice Guy put it, has been indeed a fear on my list.

And as much as I'd like to believe that you're right Benny503(as you very well may be with the part of gangsters avoiding guns) I am still fearful of the idiotic drug pumped crazies, who are perhaps more prevalent in my area than the gangsters. And though they say even a guy on drugs can recognize a gun for what it is... let me tell ya firsthand--it takes some aiming in order for them to apparently care. They scare me the most so far.

And I couldn't agree more with Trlsmn on "rape, yes that sounds like an angle that you need to be considered and come up with an effective plan ahead of time on how to deal with it." Still a work in progress on that one--whether that's been my "crazy guy" encounters intent or not. Bottom line... If I want to win any fight against any crazy guy, I have to outwit them and be faster to get in a good punch. Because I ain't gonna be stronger--guaranteed.

And though I so appreciate all the encouraging hat tipping from people like FarmerTed and Spengo-- I can't quite conclude it to be bravery. And the more I read these posts, the more I lean towards stupidity. But either way, whether brave or stupid, or even stupidly brave--thanks each of you who have so graciously given me honest answers. That is indeed what I'm looking for and I love you all the more for it. You are indeed good guys.

Btw--not that any of you really care... but I won't likely be OC for a very long time (assuming that I do live through it), or my own mother WILL disown me due to safety concerns. And I'd sure hate to see that happen--she's been such a nice mother.

Feel free to keep this going... I just thought I'd take the time to say this while I had time.

 

[chemist]

Well, this was an interesting and informative discussion until the urinating contest began.

I too tend to agree with just about everything said here, the incompatibility of the viewpoints notwithstanding. That's not hypocrisy, it's flexible thinking!

One thing I might add is Ferfal's discussion of the "Gray Man," the pedestrian who is neither victim nor hero, appears neither armed nor helpless, and offers nothing to make him stand out to an observer in any way.

SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA: The Gray man concept

Most of Argentina's in a lot worse shape than the nastiest corner of NE Portland, but the point remains that bad things can come at you from all kinds of angles, some of which you're likely to miss seeing until it's too late.

I have a beautiful young lady for a daughter who lives in the very center of a large urban area on the Eastern seaboard. Drives me nuts, but what can a Dad do? [rhetorical question - please save your advice] This is someone who couldn't achieve Gray Man status if she wanted to, which she's not interested in anyway. I could see the logic behind OC for such an individual, who can't blend into the background and instead must depend on wearing a sign that says, "It ain't worth it."

But I have to agree with the others who say that situational awareness is the key, and that doesn't necessarily mean doing everything right - more like don't do anything wrong. Especially when weighed down with packages/kids, alone, or yakking on the phone, young women such as my child or perhaps you are walking invitations to criminals. It only takes one distracted minute to invite disaster, and it only has to happen once to ruin a whole lifetime.

So my take is, go ahead and OC as a public service, but think twice about attracting that kind of attention if/when things go down the tubes.

 

[biggie24420]

I am all for open carry and I do OC when I can...... even if I am just going to 7-11 , but I feel more exposed as we all know because your telling everyone I HAVE A GUN. And if I was the bad guy and you didn't know it, I would shoot you first because you have a gun.

If I was a criminal.....I would pay attention to how you act, how you talk, how confident you were, and if you were aware of your surrounding. If I could see the weakness in you and if I felt that I could...... I would subdue you and take your gun away from you and take off or shoot you. You have to remember that people will see, believe, and fear what they want and you should also know that your exposed weapon can be used against you (I am sure you know all this tho lol).

I was at WinCo once, saw a female open carrying her pistol. I was excited and turned on to be honest and I wanted to go talk guns with her. she was right handed and as she walked around the store doing her shopping, she had her young son in her right arm. I could have easily got behind her, reached for the gun and went on a rampage or just took it and ran off with it.... because if I was a criminal I could have sold it and made some money or whatever. My point is that if you gonna open carry you have to always be alert, you have to know what and who is around you and you have to always be a few steps ahead of people.

You having your kids around......... or any other distraction could cost you or someone else their life. In my opinion if you can..... use something like a BlackHawk level 3 holster, be aware of your surroundings and learn about weapon retention.

 

[DB Cooper]

I mean no offense to anyone by the following, but here's my 2 cents worth.

There's a segment of every community, usually the run-down, low rent seedy parts. Where you will see the typical young guy walking down the street, being towed by a Pit Bull. Or, in many instances, where allowed by law, they will be carrying a POS $9.95 "Rambo Survival Knife" on their belt.

They are, in there minds, saying don't mess with me I'm a bad SOB. When in reality, they are scared and posing.

The fact that you are using the open carry also sends the same message. Telling any would be attackers, I'm afraid.

Most career criminals or street scum have survived because they can read people. They've learned, as mentioned previously, to read body language as well as other signals in choosing a victim.

It takes courage, conviction and a mind-set to shoot someone, even in self defense. They know this, and also know that the "open carry" is a signal of fear. Fear that will most probably make you hesitate, or not use it at all.

An example:

I worked as a bouncer in a couple of rough Lumber Town bars in my younger days. Two brothers, known to be tough as well as bullies started punching a guy over a pool game.

I jumped in to break up the fight. One of them took a swing at my head with a beer pitcher. I took him down, and then heard glass break behind me. The other brother had broken a beer bottle. I turned to face him, and he yells "I'm gonna cut you up!" I walked toward him and said," If you're gonna use it? Use it!" He dropped the bottle.

I knew from experience that if you're going to do something, you do it. You don't tell someone you're going to do it. He hesitated, so I knew it was a bluff, and he knew that I knew. It's called "Woofin"...9 out of 10 "Street Crawlers" are going to sense it.

An air of confidence, and body language are the best deterrents. An "I will not be a victim" attitude and body language, along with concealed carry are the best way to not become a victim.

 

[Chee-to]

<broken link removed>

my bad, it was over a month ago.

The president of Wisconsin Carry, Nik Clark, says 100's of thousands of people open carry and he's never heard of anything like this.

"So it really is a very unusual situation, very unique," Clark said.

The victim didn't want to go on camera but said he carried the gun because he had been jumped and held up at knife point in the past. He believes, in his case, open carry made him a target and he will no longer do it.

He said his case proves gun owners should have the right to carry concealed weapons.

Clark agrees. "By and large it is a significant deterrent, open carry is, but I think it really does make the point that Wisconsin should have concealed carry along with open carry so that people who live in a very high crime neighborhood where criminals aren't deterred by firearms would have the ability to conceal carry to protect themselves. The two really work hand in hand," Clark said.

 

[Chick Holsters]

I like the way this cashier at Fred Meyer thinks. She said "now if we all would just do what you're doing and carry a firearm in the same town, how much more would crime be cut down. Don't you think a bad guy would think twice about walking into a room where he knows there are 14 other guns when he enters?"

She said we just need to create a compound community of gun people to reduce crime rates and let the non gun people live on their own towns. Then she said she herself was scared of guns... but she hoped she could somehow still live there with us. I told we could fix her fear with a little education. for community gun living--I like it. So if you all would just move here... that would be great.

 

[Platt05]

It's unfortunate that in this town having an open carry pistol draws attention to yourself. I'm just under the mindset that I'd prefer not to draw attention to myself. I think a criminal might look at your gun as a pretty sweet score however I think that their mindset would be, "if they have their gun showing the must really know how to use it and it probably isn't worth the risk to go after." If I open carried I'd still keep another one concealed, the ole ace in the hole.

 

[The B]

i'd much rather we lived in a society where everyone carried openly- but only where it was commonplace. the way things are right now, a few people doing it and making a spectacle of themselves isn't going to get us there. i think those days are simple long gone, at least until we have some kind of societal revolution in this country.

 

[Celtic Armory]

Hear it from the criminals themselves. YouTube - John Stossel Links Gun Control to Higher Crime Rates pay attention at 2:44 into it. I've OCd for some time and have seen gang types clearly looking for trouble go looking elsewhere when they saw me and my XD.

 

[Chick Holsters]

If I open carried I'd still keep another one concealed, the ole ace in the hole.

I wholeheartedly agree