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SBR and Trusts. Form 1 or Form 4?

Discussion in 'NFA Weapon Discussion' started by beranimus, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. beranimus

    beranimus Veneta Active Member

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    Ok so I am just starting a build of my Ar15 sbr. I just picked up my stripped lower a week ago. I have it registered in my name but want to use a trust to get it registered as an sbr. I understand how to set up a trust and that I have to fill out and submit the atf Form 1. What I don't understand it the transfer of ownership of the lower/gun in the ownership of the trust instead of me as an individual. do I have to submit a Form 4 and a form 1 and pay a $200 tax on both forms?

    Thanks for all the help
     
  2. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure your total question here.

    You picked up a stripped lower. HOW is it registered in your name? Title 1 firearms are NOT registered.

    It sounds like you plan on building a SBR which you will use the Form 1.

    I do not undertand where a Form 4 comes in. Form 4 is for the transfer of NFA items.
     
  3. beranimus

    beranimus Veneta Active Member

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    I may be confusing my self. Been doing some research online. Ok so all I need to do is make my trust with my lower in it and submit my form 1? Then when I get my tax stamp I can build my sbr correct?
     
  4. Benny503

    Benny503 Grants Pass Well-Known Member

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    Form 1 if you putting Short barrel or stock on a pistol.

    Form 4 if buying from someone eslse already did form 1
     
  5. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Is your lower an NFA item right now? If not then you just fill out the Form 1 in the "name" you want. Once it comes back approved then build it.
     
  6. beezer66

    beezer66 Salem, OR Active Member

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    A form 4 is for the transfer of a NFA item. The lower receiver isn't a NFA item, until it made one by filing a form 1. The 4473 paper that you filled out, at the time you purchased the lower, has nothing to do with registering a NFA item. You need to go with a form 1. If you bought an registered SBR from someone, than you would need a form 4.
     
  7. beranimus

    beranimus Veneta Active Member

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    Ok great thanks for all the help everyone
     
  8. SG85

    SG85 503 Member

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    Ok I'm in a similar boat, I want to buy an SBR upper only from a friend, I have an extra lower for it already. Do I need a form 1 or form 4?
     
  9. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Are you buying a REGISTERED NFA item from your buddy? Yes = Form 4
    Are you BUILDING your own NFA item? Yes = Form 1

    Legally speaking there is no such thing as an SBR upper unless the firearm in question is one where the upper (usually just referred to as the receiver) is the registered part (like the FAL or most HK's).
     
  10. SG85

    SG85 503 Member

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    Being that the upper half doesn't not have numbers I assume in this case I am building the rifle. Also is the 200 fee reapplied yearly or one time?
     
  11. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    I am just going to assume you are talking about an AR with what you have described. With the AR the lower is the registered part and everything else is just parts.

    At the risk of sound like like a A-hole I have some points for you. Owning NFA items is not hard but I think you should do some more research before getting into it. If you are not sure if you are building or buying or even how the fees work that leaves me believing there are lots of other things you don't know that can cause you lots of problems down the road. I suggest you read all the information on this link, ATF Online - Publications - Firearms - National Firearms Act Handbook if it does not answer what you need to know I would be more then happy to answer any questions.
     
  12. SG85

    SG85 503 Member

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    This is part of my fact finding, I appreciate the link, my intent is to build the SBR on the AR platform. I know the lower the the only registered part, I wanted to clarify which form is for each case. This site has a lot of educated folks, I figured first hand advice is worth more than my interpretation of instructions.
     
  13. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Well the it is one of those things where you read the "actual" information then ask questions based on the facts of what you read.

    Again to BUILD a NFA item it is a Form 1
    To TRANSFER a NFA item (for private individuals) it is a Form 4
     
  14. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

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    Speaking as a person who built an SBR in a Trust this year:

    If you have a lower and you'd like to put a short-barreled upper on it, you need to fill out a Form 1 in duplicate with the Trust showing as the owner. Submit both copies of the form one along with a complete copy of the signed, notarized trust along with a check from the trust's checking account for $200 to the ATF. In 4-8 months they will either return one copy of the Form 1 with a tax stamp affixed, or return both copies with a letter saying something needs to be changed. If you get the letter saying something needs to be changed you make the changes and return the forms, they will be approved in a few weeks.

    At some point you will need to get the registered lower engraved; I did mine before building, as it's easier that way and the aluminum shavings don't get into the oiled internals. The engraving needs to match what you put on the Form 1 exactly. Once you have your Form 1 in-hand you can attach the short-barreled upper; at that point, you have a fully assembled, fully legal SBR.

    Greg
     
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  15. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Greg,

    I did a Form-1 SBR build on a Draco-AK pistol using the Trust route, and I paid with a check from my personal checking account. The whole thing went through w/o a hitch and I received it 6 months ago.

    I'm prepping a Form-1 for a demilled Sterling Mk.IV SMG that I'm going to "remill" into a semi-auto SBR. Has something changed recently I'm not aware of?
     
  16. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

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    It works fine to write your own personal check... However, if anyone (say the ATF?) were ever to want to mess with you it's cleaner to have all your t's crossed and lower-case j's dotted. Sort of like owning an LLC or Corporation, if you mix personal with business you open yourself to personal liability if something goes wrong. You never sign a business document as yourself, you sign it and then add your title ("Member", "President", etc...) otherwise you've signed and guaranteed it yourself rather than as an agent of the business.

    Similarly, when you sign anything for the trust you have to add your title ("Trustee") after your signature to show you are signing as an agent of the trust and not as yourself. The trust is legally a separate person with a separate checking account, and if anything ever goes wrong you have a stronger defense if you made sure everything was kept separate between the trust and yourself.

    Just my understanding, your results may vary.