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SB 941 and the C&R in Oregon

Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Discussion' started by bolus, May 12, 2015.

  1. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Hopefully a little focused legal discussion is ok here:

    In case others did not see it, Floyd let me know that C&R FFL's are required to get background checks now. It may be argued that an out of state company can still mail directly to you if they have a copy of the C&R. granted Oregon would not even know, but I'm not willing to take that risk so I wont be using my 03 FFL anymore.

    So I propose that everyone in Oregon with a C&R write their legislator asking for a refund for the cost of the C&R or an amendment to make C&R a clear exception in the law.

    On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Sen Prozanski <sen.floydprozanski@state.or.us> wrote:


    Eric – Yes, under SB 941 I do believe that individuals who hold a C&R FEL would be still be required to have an Oregon background check before having a firearm transferred to them.

    Floyd
     
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  2. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    This is a bummer. I have mentioned both CHL and 03 FFL in every email I've been sending legislators up to this point. I emailed Prozanski again this morning asking when he plans to reimburse me for my 03 FFL costs - and I want that to include my time (full billable rates, overtime since I did it off-hours) postage, etc. And to finish it off, I want an in person apology from Floyd himself for officially screwing us over.
     
  3. B5Ben

    B5Ben Boise Well-Known Member

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    We might all die of old age before that happens....
     
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  4. GUNARCHER

    GUNARCHER Well-Known Member

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    how can they prosecute an out of state transferrer?? The law applies to the seller to prevent the transfer. If you are not a prohibited person what do they charge you with? You would be in legal possession.
    The seller would be the violator.
     
  5. Qaolin

    Qaolin 1 A.U. from a G2 near Beaverton Old Army Cook Silver Supporter

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    I'll keep buying out of state as long as the seller recognizes my FFL. I don't believe this bill can restrict interstate trade between Federal licensees, unless Floyd "a bad guy shot my sister" Prozanski sees something in what he wrote that the rest of us don't. Supreme Court anyone?
     
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  6. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    So Phloyd 'believes' or does Phloyd 'know'?

    I deal with people who believe something is going on, but more often than not they don't actually know what is going on, so I tend to follow the old trust but verify standard.
     
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  7. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    He wrote the bill. So it was his intention to require background checks for C&R holders. if prosecuted it would be something that would probably win in court since it is an out of state transfer. Not willing to take that risk. That is why I asked him well before the vote in the senate to make an exclusion and he did not.
     
  8. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Thankfully his authority is restricted to Oregon. If he were to try and charge someone from out of state, he'd likely have to, literally, make a federal case out of it. I don't know if Queen Kate is ready to expend the very limited resources prosecuting an out-of-state vendor, especially for a case they would likely lose in federal court, since it's the Feds that regulate interstate transfer and not the state.

    I think it will be telling if any out-of-state vendors will continue to honor the 03 FFL. If they do, I may be willing to give it a go, since the bill really seems to be aimed at punishing the seller more than the buyer.

    I don't know, I am not really much of an "I will not comply" kind of person. Time will tell.

    I wonder, would it be possible, if resources were pooled, to have an attorney pursue a ruling on this part of the bill? Just thinking out loud at this point, not suggesting a course of action yet.
     
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  9. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I just finished emailing my Senator, Alan Olsen, who, I continue to thank for opposing/fighting against SB941. I only wish he had more on his side so they could have flushed this turd where it belongs.

    In my email, I appealed to him on behalf of Oregon 03 FFL holders. I asked what options might now be available, such as proposing a new piece of legislation that effectively amends SB941 to allow the 03 FFL exemption. I don't know if that can be done or not at this point, that's why I'm asking him. In my mind, I'm thinking that some D's may even be willing to support such a bill since SB941 is already law now and they could help appease some of the really pissed off voters (if they care to do that).

    I also asked him about getting some kind of $$ back from the state for our 03 FFL's, since they've effectively been rendered useless by SB941. While that request is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, there is an air of seriousness to it since they basically stole from us by invalidating our Federal licenses.

    Lastly, I asked if he would be able to pursue some kind of ruling/interpretation regarding 03 FFL purchases when the seller is outside of Oregon. I think that's a fair question, and considering the state has no say in Interstate Firearms Transfers, I think we have a real potential for (if I may use their favorite f*$king term "loophole") exploiting a 'loophole' in their own law that they may be unable, by law, to close. Man, if that would be the case, I'd go on a spending spree of 03 guns and email Prozanski with a photo every one I bought, along with a copy of the decision/ruling/interpretation showing he can't stop us, even with his crappy law.

    I will see if Senator Olsen responds. I asked to have a personal response.
     
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  10. Qaolin

    Qaolin 1 A.U. from a G2 near Beaverton Old Army Cook Silver Supporter

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    Excellent points @etrain16 . I also believe we should keep pressing the exemption for CHL since we have all voluntarily provided our information to the State. I'll give Senator Steiner Hayward a similar note.
     
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  11. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Agreed. I'm starting with the 03 FFL issue. If he's responsive to that, I'll ask him to address CHL as well.

    Good luck with Senator Steiner Hayward
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
  12. jefe

    jefe Portland Active Member

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    i don't see how the state of oregon could have the authority to invalidate a federal license. floyd may think he "knows," but i'm sure any challenge to FFL-03 holders will be overturned in the courts. SB941 mentions nothing about an FFL-03. in fact, SB941 mentions nothing about "curio & relic" firearms, either.
     
  13. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't invalidate the Federal license, but license holders must still comply with state laws like SB 941.

    Look at the back of your license, it says this:

    Unless it is one of the exceptions permitted by SB 941 (between immediate family members, etc.), SB 941 requires a background check for all firearm transfers in Oregon, period. When you take possession of a firearm while in Oregon - no matter where it came from - a transfer is occurring and background check is required, unless specifically exempted by SB 941. FFL 03 holders are not exempt from that state law.

    The remaining advantages that a FFL 03 still have for Oregon residents are:
    • If you travel to a state that doesn't require background checks for all sales you can buy a C&R even though you aren't a resident of that state. For example, if you go to Arizona you can buy a C&R without having to have it shipped to an Oregon FFL
    • Many online firearm accessory sellers (Brownells for example) give discounts to FFL 03 license holders
    Other than that, the value of a FFL 03 for Oregon residents has been greatly diminished by SB 941.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  14. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Senator Hayward's assistant says that she is not able propose a bill because the time is passed and no more bills can be introduced this session. But she will meet with me in the summer to hear my argument for introducing one next year.

    Is that true? no more bills can be introduced this year?
     
  15. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    How about one that takes a vote to the people to repeal this bill ?
     
  16. Qaolin

    Qaolin 1 A.U. from a G2 near Beaverton Old Army Cook Silver Supporter

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    That's the truth. That's why they pushed this through so quickly. As for Senator Steiner Hayward...pfft. she knew full well about the C&R and voted against the amendment offering the exemption for that and the CHL when it was still in the Senate Judiciary committee.
     
  17. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    OK I know squat about the law. But I hear all the time about this law suit or that trying to change some law and it gets thrown out because the people bringing the suit have not been harmed by the law.

    WELL its sure clear and easy to see how a FFL C&R holder has been hurt by this new law. Maybe someone should talk to one of the Pro gun outfits that like to bring suit against stupid laws and get the ball rolling on this POS Law.
     
  18. tiggers97

    tiggers97 United States Well-Known Member

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    Hayward is also my 'rep'. Depending on the timing this summer, I'd be interested in meeting with her as well.
     
  19. shibbershabber

    shibbershabber Vancouver Well-Known Member

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    HahahahahahahahahahahahahabahahahHahHjJjB oh. Oh... Hahahahahah yaaaaarrrrr

    I dont even know where to begin. That's doomed to failure. The only benefit would be a delayed implementation until after the election... Giving people time to get some things before having to do the dog and pony show at their FFL.

    Look how well a vote of the people turned out here in WA!

    There are enough anti-gunners, people who don't care and far too many stay-at-home Republicans for that to work.

    You're looking at the new normal in Oregon. Anti-gun crap doesn't get repealed. Especially in Oregon

    It was a good ride while it lasted. At least you don't have to pay sales tax
     
  20. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You discount one big thing - now people are getting to experience, first hand, the result of their poor voting choices or inaction. We haven't had an election since the passage of these two laws, the next election may see a change in sentiment.

    I honestly don't know why so many folks are ready to just say "it's over" and throw in the towel.
     
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