SB 941 and the C&R in Oregon

[etrain16]

That's just it though, gun rights never have majority support.

Either people dont have guns, so they don't care and/or get scared into it by the idea of criminals getting guns... Or the brain dead gun owners who support this stuff...
Or worse yet, conservatives who would normally support 2A issues... But sit out elections all together because the Republican ticket isn't conservative enough or they don't like something about the candidate. I'm certain that's what dis us in up here.

There's going to be a big Democratic turn out for 2016, I hope not to see any antigun legislation come up for a vote until mid terms.

That may be, but I am anticipating a conservative shift in 2016. Many people are really sick of what they've been seeing, even from their own parties. Many folks that voted for I-594 in WA are coming out now saying they didn't realize what they were voting for (partially due to there being a competing ballot measure that caused more confusion). On a national level, I think the Dems are going to be fighting an uphill battle against a very strong set of conservative candidates. On a state level, I don't know for sure, but I'm hoping folks are waking up and may even be willing to vote differently this time. They may not care about gun issues, but there are other things they're passing (such as trying to take away our kicker refund in OR) that is pissing a lot of people off.

 

[shibbershabber]

I agree that the Republican ticket is a solid one for '16... However, even with someone like Obama in office guns are untouchable Federally.

I want to see what happens on the state level. Who is running? All Republicans are going to gave to hold their noses and vote for whomever runs... Even I they're pro choice or support amnesty.

Half a Republican is better than a whole Democrat.

I'm getting started right away myself.

Spread the word and volunteer if you can.

 

[U201491]

You discount one big thing - now people are getting to experience, first hand, the result of their poor voting choices or inaction. We haven't had an election since the passage of these two laws, the next election may see a change in sentiment.

I honestly don't know why so many folks are ready to just say "it's over" and throw in the towel.

Yes I believe they would vote this bill down in a heartbeat. Why the hell do people think they pulled the backroom BS like they did to get it enacted. They defrauded the entire citizenry to do that.
They knew if brought to a vote they would lose their azzes.

.

 

[etrain16]

Yes I believe they would vote this bill down in a heartbeat. Why the hell do people think they pulled the backroom BS like they did to get it enacted. They defrauded the entire citizenry to do that.
They knew if brought to a vote they would lose their azzes.

.

Yep, exactly why the abuse of the emergency clause - they knew they never had anywhere close to the 85% support they claimed. If they really believed they had that much public support, they would have let the voters have their say. Cowards and liars the lot of them.

 

[Jim Colvill]

Yes I believe they would vote this bill down in a heartbeat. Why the hell do people think they pulled the backroom BS like they did to get it enacted. They defrauded the entire citizenry to do that.
They knew if brought to a vote they would lose their azzes.

.

Only if it had gone to a special election might the bill have failed due to low turn out; only those who take voting seriously go out on special elections (how many here cast their ballots this last Tuesday for school board and water district members?). In a general election it would be far tougher and Bloomberg would need to spend more money for those radio and tv ads which would motivate the electorate of Multnomah County (the tail which wags the dog.) Even those most anti-gun friends of mine knew absolutely nothing of SB 941 or any of the other firearm restriction bills until it was signed and reported. Yes, this was a calculated move on the part of Floyd "a bad guy shot my sister" Prozanski and Ginny"I'd like all guns to be confiscated"Burdick and it worked. If it had been on any election other than a Presidential ballot it would've been a tough row to hoe.

 

[U201491]

Only if it had gone to a special election might the bill have failed due to low turn out; only those who take voting seriously go out on special elections (how many here cast their ballots this last Tuesday for school board and water district members?). In a general election it would be far tougher and Bloomberg would need to spend more money for those radio and tv ads which would motivate the electorate of Multnomah County (the tail which wags the dog.) Even those most anti-gun friends of mine knew absolutely nothing of SB 941 or any of the other firearm restriction bills until it was signed and reported. Yes, this was a calculated move on the part of Floyd "a bad guy shot my sister" Prozanski and Ginny"I'd like all guns to be confiscated"Burdick and it worked. If it had been on any election other than a Presidential ballot it would've been a tough row to hoe.

Oh after this crap we just had in OR, I think most gun owners could be easily motivated to get out the vote this time. and Yep We vote on all special elections.

 

[RW-Ore]

Never ever throw in the towel that's what their counting on. Don't give them what they want. We got a lot of fight left in us.

 

[SPU]

I'm going to give up collecting guns for a while and play with what I have.

Especially C&R guns -- add $30-$40 to each transaction and it would have to be a pretty special firearm to pique my interest on these generally cheaper guns. It just galls me that I went through the hoops for a license (admittedly just an 03 FFL) and it is now invalidated. And I don't trust Oregon to not keep permanent records of transactions.

Time to find a new collection to get into.

 

[etrain16]

Maybe time to wake this thread up again. I'm just wondering if anyone has heard anything about how exactly SB941 will impact us C&R holders, particularly if we buy out of state? I remember reading something about the necessity for a transfer possibly not applying for an interstate transfer if it's from an FFL directly to a C&R. I don't know if that was BS or just speculation, but I'm hopeful. If that were true, I could still hope to use my C&R, but just do it only via out of state buys.

Thoughts? Anyone even know where we can go to get a good answer on this?

 

[SPU]

Maybe time to wake this thread up again. I'm just wondering if anyone has heard anything about how exactly SB941 will impact us C&R holders, particularly if we buy out of state? I remember reading something about the necessity for a transfer possibly not applying for an interstate transfer if it's from an FFL directly to a C&R. I don't know if that was BS or just speculation, but I'm hopeful. If that were true, I could still hope to use my C&R, but just do it only via out of state buys.

Thoughts? Anyone even know where we can go to get a good answer on this?

I contacted OFF and they couldn't even answer this. I honestly think people are confused by all the unanswered details in SB941. The trap is there is a clear paper trail to your door if you misinterpret this poorly written piece of filth, and God help you if they want to make an example of you.

 

[etrain16]

I contacted OFF and they couldn't even answer this. I honestly think people are confused by all the unanswered details in SB941. The trap is there is a clear paper trail to your door if you misinterpret this poorly written piece of filth, and God help you if they want to make an example of you.

It's an interesting question. It seems to me the primary liability, at least in my reading of SB941, is on the seller rather than the buyer. I could be totally wrong, it's just how I've read it, and I'm no attorney, and thankfully, no damned politician.

But if an out-of-state 01 or 03 FFL were to send a transfer directly to you, I wonder how they would enforce that? The seller is out of state, following federal law, would the state law be able to be applied to them?. And I know that the 03 FFL paperwork states that state rules can trump the 03 FFL, I just don't see how they would be able to do that. FTF in state is one thing. Would you go after USPS, UPS or FedEx for delivering it?

I'm wondering if we'll see a push from FFL's outside the state for an interpretation so they know whether they are allowed to sell directly to an 03 in Oregon. I'm hoping they left a gaping loophole due to their complete ineptitude and misunderstanding of how these things work. But that said, the last thing I would want to be is an example. I'll need some reasonable reassurance before I'll test it out past 8/7 (or it 8/9?)

 

[SPU]

I'll need some reasonable reassurance before I'll test it out past 8/7 (or it 8/9?)

I'll likely treat it as a transaction to go through an 01 FFL. My logic is it is a (currently) small tax on my exercising a Constitutional right, which galls me, but is safer than legal issues. Even though they have now registered my rifle or pistol, they likely don't care about antiques and collectables. I doubt they will ever care about an Iver Johnson .32 S&W break top. BUT, I am far more likely NOT to purchase guns at high prices that some day Dems will determine are too unsafe for me to own -- such as guns with fixed magazines of 10 rounds, or (if I win the lottery) a select fire rifle. This is the insidious nature of this law -- making it more difficult and risky to own firearms will degrade ownership. That was the point of the legislation, IMHO. But I'm hoping C&R flies under the radar generally, until we can get some reversal of fortune in Salem.

 

[jefe]

if you buy out of state--and so long as it is legal to buy/sell in other state with a C&R--it is perfectly legal, since you're in federal territory. there would only be an issue if oregon had a law forcing you to register any gun brought into the state of oregon.

i spoke with an ATF enforcement agent, and he said because of WA's new law the ATF wrote instructions to their field offices concerning state law and C&R licenses. ergo, when i sold a mosin nagant m38 to a C&R holder in WA state, it was legal since he came and met me in OR--and since the UBC provision of SB941 doesn't go into effect until august. if i had met him in WA, we would've been forced to go to a WA FFL dealer.

so if you have a C&R and you travel to gun shows in other states, more than likely you won't have any issue buying and bringing the firearms back to OR. however, C&R in oregon is pretty much invalidated starting in august.

 

[Jim Colvill]

I'm still wondering how the law would apply to say, purchasing off of gunbroker and having it mailed to me as the receiving FFL?

 

[jefe]

any transfer that has anything to do with the state of oregon (such as buying, selling, or receiving) will require that you go through a dealer FFL. if you purchase off gun broker, in theory you would be in violation of SB941 if you only have a C&R and have it shipped to your house. according to the ATF, since it is a federal license it is legal to utilize your C&R in states that do not require UBC on all transfers, even if you aren't a resident of the said state.

personally transporting, over state lines, into oregon with a C&R is perfectly legal--unless the oregon legislature specifically targets C&R holders, and makes any transportation illegal without UBC. so long as you are a C&R holder and the transaction (payment, trade, transfer) took place outside of the state of OR, then you are in federal territory and SB941 isn't applicable, and you can bring the C&R firearm home.

anything mailed to an address within the state of oregon will require a background check, starting in august.

 

[etrain16]

any transfer that has anything to do with the state of oregon (such as buying, selling, or receiving) will require that you go through a dealer FFL. if you purchase off gun broker, in theory you would be in violation of SB941 if you only have a C&R and have it shipped to your house. according to the ATF, since it is a federal license it is legal to utilize your C&R in states that do not require UBC on all transfers, even if you aren't a resident of the said state.

personally transporting, over state lines, into oregon with a C&R is perfectly legal--unless the oregon legislature specifically targets C&R holders, and makes any transportation illegal without UBC. so long as you are a C&R holder and the transaction (payment, trade, transfer) took place outside of the state of OR, then you are in federal territory and SB941 isn't applicable, and you can bring the C&R firearm home.

anything mailed to an address within the state of oregon will require a background check, starting in august.

I would hit "like" for the detailed response, but I don't want to inadvertently give the impression that I actually like the answer

What is curious is that going to several online C&R vendors, I have yet to see any restrictions on shipping/selling directly to C&R holders in Washington or Oregon. In one example, they noted very clearly a restriction against sending a certain pistol to certain states under the C&R license - neither Oregon or Washington were listed. As I went through a couple of sites, I couldn't find any notation of restrictions. I don't know if they simply haven't updated the sites with that information, or if you have to wait until checkout to find out that it's a no go. Or, maybe they know something we don't know?

It's a messy business

 

[bolus]

I contacted the ATF for an official response and their response was to contact the Attorney general.

The attorney Generals response was
"Unfortunately, the Oregon Department of Justice (DOJ) is not the proper agency to address your concerns. Neither the Attorney General nor the Oregon Department of Justice have jurisdiction over firearm transfers in Oregon, nor can we provide an interpretation of the law to individual citizens. ORS 180.060. I would suggest redirecting your inquiry to the Oregon State Police. "

I called the State Police and they did not know, though a nice guy names Jeff is going to look into it and call me back. I asked for how to get an official response one way or the other so we know for sure.

Im waiting on that reply

 

[Jim Colvill]

IOW no one fracking knows anything. Thanks bolus for your good work

 

[etrain16]

I contacted the ATF for an official response and their response was to contact the Attorney general.

The attorney Generals response was
"Unfortunately, the Oregon Department of Justice (DOJ) is not the proper agency to address your concerns. Neither the Attorney General nor the Oregon Department of Justice have jurisdiction over firearm transfers in Oregon, nor can we provide an interpretation of the law to individual citizens. ORS 180.060. I would suggest redirecting your inquiry to the Oregon State Police. "

I called the State Police and they did not know, though a nice guy names Jeff is going to look into it and call me back. I asked for how to get an official response one way or the other so we know for sure.

Im waiting on that reply

Wow, that's nuts. Pass a law that no one can understand, interpret or enforce. What a load of carp

Thanks for tracking that info down Bolus, I'm also looking forward to hear what the OSP has to say.

 

[bolus]

funny, Jeff suggested they just overlooked the C&R.

Oh No! I got it right on email before they even started the bill that they knew all about the C&R. I knew I would be calling you right now to clarify the law even before the bill was submitted. They did it on purpose!