Oregon SB 348 gutted and stuffed to rewrite Measure 114 3/34/23

[Andesite]

Exactly. And you can almost feel the mental gymnastics they have to go through to explain away their cognitive dissonance. Sooner or later they will start to cannibalize themselves as they try to out-woke each other in their race to the bottom.

I would have preferred a monetary fine or censure for breaking decorum rules. Expulsion from the body, to me, seems excessive. I wonder how long their constituents will have to wait before they again have representation in the state legislature. Maybe they'll withhold their state tax payment in a week on the basis of taxation without representation.

 

[Yarome]

I would have preferred a monetary fine or censure for breaking decorum rules. Expulsion from the body, to me, seems excessive. I wonder how long their constituents will have to wait before they again have representation in the state legislature. Maybe they'll withhold their state tax payment in a week on the basis of taxation without representation.

I think it was more than appropriate. It wasn't the first time some of them have acted completely out of line (one at least throwing water on members across the asile), have shown they are incapable of meaningful discussion and removing toxic elements from their governing body can only be a step in the right direction.

Demonstrating a complete lack of maturity from a law maker is inexcuseable and certainly wouldn't have stopped with just that single incident. The M.O. of the woke is to always "do one better" and go more extreme the next time around. As demonstrated.

If they had been employees of some company and acting like that toward their coworkers or the public... I can guarantee what the outcome would have been... and it certainly wouldn't have been put up to a 2/3rd majority vote before being canned on the spot. Politicians "should" be held to an even higher standard than your average Joe/Jane employee of some mid-level company.

 

[Andesite]

I think it was more than appropriate. It wasn't the first time some of them have acted completely out of line (one at least throwing water on members across the asile), have shown they are incapable of meaningful discussion and removing toxic elements from their governing body can only be a step in the right direction.

Demonstrating a complete lack of maturity from a law maker is inexcuseable and certainly wouldn't have stopped with just that single incident. The M.O. of the woke is to always "do one better" and go more extreme the next time around. As demonstrated.

If they had been employees of some company and acting like that toward their coworkers or the public... I can guarantee what the outcome would have been... and it certainly wouldn't have been put up to a 2/3rd majority vote before being canned on the spot. Politicians "should" be held to an even higher standard than your average Joe/Jane employee of some mid-level company.

We can agree to disagree about this. I can, at least.

 

[Yarome]

We can agree to disagree about this. I can, at least.

Yeah. I sometimes forget... if you're "woke"... rules and consequences don't apply.
My bad.

 

[kmk1012]

Don't forget facts or rights

 

[Ura-Ki]

I think it was more than appropriate. It wasn't the first time some of them have acted completely out of line (one at least throwing water on members across the asile), have shown they are incapable of meaningful discussion and removing toxic elements from their governing body can only be a step in the right direction.

Demonstrating a complete lack of maturity from a law maker is inexcuseable and certainly wouldn't have stopped with just that single incident. The M.O. of the woke is to always "do one better" and go more extreme the next time around. As demonstrated.

If they had been employees of some company and acting like that toward their coworkers or the public... I can guarantee what the outcome would have been... and it certainly wouldn't have been put up to a 2/3rd majority vote before being canned on the spot. Politicians "should" be held to an even higher standard than your average Joe/Jane employee of some mid-level company.

I agree completely with this, those arseholes were elected to represent their communities to the highest standards of honor and decency, something they completely failed to do, so they got a warning first, then fired for continuing their pattern of poor behavior! Our elected SHOULD be held to the highest standards, especially as they represent Each and Every citizen of their communities, and as such should be above such petty childish behavior! To stoop to such low levels shows who they really serve, themselves, and have no business serving We the People in any capacity! TO say this punishment was too harsh, or too biased, try that behavior anywhere else, and see how it goes, you would be lucky to ONLY get fired for it! Technically what they did could be considered assault, and should carry the full penalties of such!

 

[toast]

If you did that at your job, you might be fired by your employer, but they weren't fired by their employers. They were hired by the people who voted for them, not by their fellow Representatives who fired them over a protest that their constituents (employers) supported.

How is interrupting the normal course of business via a noisy protest any different functionally than interrupting the normal course of business via a walkout? Both sides support minority party protests when it's convenient but cry foul when the other guy does it. Will TN be passing an initiative to ban protests that interrupt the Legislature in the future? Would Republicans support it with a straight face while simultaneously decrying the state of affairs here in Oregon?

Apparently, "decorum" is the meaningful part here, not "interrupting the normal course of business". Walking out is so much more dignified.

For the record, I don't support either form of protest. But I do understand them because I don't support lots of other things that are going on in state legislatures controlled by EITHER party as well.

In any event, it wasn't an employer/employee action.

 

[Camelfilter]

If you did that at your job, you might be fired by your employer, but they weren't fired by their employers. They were hired by the people who voted for them, not by their fellow Representatives who fired them over a protest that their constituents (employers) supported.

How is interrupting the normal course of business via a noisy protest any different functionally than interrupting the normal course of business via a walkout? Both sides support minority party protests when it's convenient but cry foul when the other guy does it. Will TN be passing an initiative to ban protests that interrupt the Legislature in the future? Would Republicans support it with a straight face while simultaneously decrying the state of affairs here in Oregon?

Apparently, "decorum" is the meaningful part here, not "interrupting the normal course of business". Walking out is so much more dignified.

For the record, I don't support either form of protest. But I do understand them because I don't support lots of other things that are going on in state legislatures controlled by EITHER party as well.

In any event, it wasn't an employer/employee action.

One form of protest is directly interruptive & disruptive, not allowing for conversation.

The other form is not.

 

[Yarome]

In any event, it wasn't an employer/employee action.

Point of clarification.

They are elected officials employed by the government. Its not only their consituents that pay their salary and their constituents do not determine the rules and laws that they must abide by in the performance of their duties. They are bound and swore an oath to abide by the rules of their office... as defined by their "employer"... the State goverrnent... and accountable to every citizen.

If you want to look at it your way... then they were not removed by their fellow representatives. They were removed by the people that elected THEIR representatives to uphold their will... and those people objected to their conduct.

You can't have it both ways... to say that they were only doing the will of their constituents but the representatives that removed them weren't representing their constituents will, too.... and should lack the authority to fire them. That's a total break in logic.

Calling a politically alllowed (in most states) walk out is hardly the same thing as marching in 100's of protestors and leading chants within chambers. One violates the rules of their office, the other does not.


I guess we've gone off track, hu.

 

[jayR]

Email to representative is now rejected as spam.

Diagnostic information for administrators:

Generating server: PH7PR14MB7105.namprd14.prod.outlook.com

[email protected]
Remote server returned '550 5.7.520 Message blocked because it contains content identified as spam. AS(4810)'

Original message headers:

Received: from PH7PR14MB6643.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:2bf::21)
by PH7PR14MB7105.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:236::10) with
Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2,
cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6277.31; Fri, 7 Apr
2023 03:33:21 +0000
Received: from PH7PR14MB6643.namprd14.prod.outlook.com
([fe80::1d3d:f37c:4970:e98c]) by PH7PR14MB6643.namprd14.prod.outlook.com
([fe80::1d3d:f37c:4970:e98c%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6277.033; Fri, 7 Apr 2023
03:33:21 +0000
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary
To: "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Subject: SB 348 and SB 393

 

[toast]

Point of clarification.

They are elected officials employed by the government. Its not only their consituents that pay their salary and their constituents do not determine the rules and laws that they must abide by in the performance of their duties. They are bound and swore an oath to abide by the rules of their office... as defined by their "employer"... the State goverrnent... and accountable to every citizen.

If you want to look at it your way... then they were not removed by their fellow representatives. They were removed by the people that elected THEIR representatives to uphold their will... and those people objected to their conduct.

You can't have it both ways... to say that they were only doing the will of their constituents but the representatives that removed them weren't representing their constituents will, too.... and should lack the authority to fire them. That's a total break in logic.

Calling a politically alllowed (in most states) walk out is hardly the same thing as marching in 100's of protestors and leading chants within chambers. One violates the rules of their office, the other does not.


I guess we've gone off track, hu.

Fair point from a technical standpoint regarding who the actual employer is.

I stand by my contention that both actions are analogous in being largely symbolic, performative, and ultimately meaningless delay and disruption tactics as a form of protest on the behalf of a powerless minority. These tactics are largely about rallying the base and making voters feel like politicians are doing something when they actually aren't.

 

[toast]

One form of protest is directly interruptive & disruptive, not allowing for conversation.

The other form is not.

How does one converse more effectively with someone who isn't even present than with someone who is shouting? Isn't walking out with the intention of forcing proceedings to halt also interruptive?

I really enjoy lurking here and feel like part of this community even if I do not post much. I will likely post a bit more moving forward after having taken some time to observe you all for a while. Thanks for having me, and much respect to all of you.

 

[P7M13]

Email to representative is now rejected as spam.

Diagnostic information for administrators:

Generating server: PH7PR14MB7105.namprd14.prod.outlook.com

[email protected]
Remote server returned '550 5.7.520 Message blocked because it contains content identified as spam. AS(4810)'

Original message headers:

Received: from PH7PR14MB6643.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:2bf::21)
by PH7PR14MB7105.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:236::10) with
Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2,
cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6277.31; Fri, 7 Apr
2023 03:33:21 +0000
Received: from PH7PR14MB6643.namprd14.prod.outlook.com
([fe80::1d3d:f37c:4970:e98c]) by PH7PR14MB6643.namprd14.prod.outlook.com
([fe80::1d3d:f37c:4970:e98c%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6277.033; Fri, 7 Apr 2023
03:33:21 +0000
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary
To: "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Subject: SB 348 and SB 393

Outlook.com *is* notorious for Spam email accounts. Gmail is too.
If your email or signature contains any links to other sites, like GOA or OFF, these can also be interpreted as spam.
Lastly, examine the text of your email for key words that the state system will scan for.

 

[PiratePast40]

Below is a sample letter. Change it as you like.

Subject: Urgent, SB348 turns us into criminals Ex Post Facto!
Dear

As written, and with the emergency clause, Senate Bill 348-3 will make thousands of Oregonians criminals immediately since the magazine capacity restrictions become effective on December 8th, 2022. It also makes every gun store and pawn shop in violation since December 8th of last year. I don't know if the intention was to make criminals out of every Oregonian that purchased a firearm with a magazine since last December, but that is exactly what it will do.

Intended or not, this will be a huge burden on law abiding Oregon's. They will be looking over their shoulder every day, and wondering if they will be arrested for something they did last December, that was actually legal at the time. Can you imagine the effect on Oregonians of color, and other minorities already suspicious by law enforcement? At the whim of any law enforcement officer, you could be arrested and jailed any time, even while playing with your children at a park, driving to work, or while grocery shopping. You could be sentenced for up to a year in jail, and it would be a felony if you had two of them, since that would be the second offense. SB348 make this an affirmative defense, meaning you are guilty until you can prove your innocence. Where is the justice and equity when the purchase of these magazines was legal at the time?

Oregonians are already disenfranchised with the legislative system and feel that there is no longer any equity among citizens, much less those in the BIPOC community. Please don't let this go any further.

I urge you to remove the emergency clause from SB 348-3 and make everything effective on July 1 2024.

Best Regards,

 

[PiratePast40]

If Senate Bill 348 passes as written, with the emergency clause, thousands of Oregonians will be ex post facto criminals, and gun shops across the state could be shut down for violation of the standard capacity magazine ban since the ban will be effective from December 22nd of last year. If you want to have any chance of seeing gun stores stay open, now is the time to call and write your legislator. Let's fill up their voicemal and email in boxes this weekend.

Here's the OLIS home page. Find out who was hired to represent you there.

Republican Leader is Senator Tim Knoop, http://www.oregonlegislature.gov/knopp 503-986-1727

Chief of Staff is Regan Knoop, [email protected] 503-986-1727

Republican House Leader is Vickki Iverson Breese, [email protected] 503-986-1459. House office number 503-986-1400.

Senate leader is Rob Wagner. [email protected]. 503-986-1600

Send an email to hm and his Legislative Director Dominique Rossi, [email protected].503-986-1600

Kate Lieber is the Democratic Leader [email protected] 503-986-1714,

House Speaker is Dan Rayfield. [email protected]. 503-740-7744

Legislative Director is Tony Lapiz, [email protected]

House majority leader is Julie Fahey, [email protected] 503-986-1414, Caucus office phone 503-986-1900

 

[Yarome]

Fair point from a technical standpoint regarding who the actual employer is.

I stand by my contention that both actions are analogous in being largely symbolic, performative, and ultimately meaningless delay and disruption tactics as a form of protest on the behalf of a powerless minority. These tactics are largely about rallying the base and making voters feel like politicians are doing something when they actually aren't.

Not exactly true either. Protesting for protestings sake is pointless and merely virtue signalling. Walking out is a valid practice to deny quorum for minority representatives to still have some recourse against tyrannical legislation. Not used lightly, not pointless, and they actually can have an impact on a single party's ability to pass legislation. It's a method of checks and balance and has the effect of keeping both sides at the discussion table without one side being able to run rough shod with zero accountability. As much as they would like that... and hve taken steps to remove that potential obstacle by making it a career ender if anyone dares interfere with their plans.

That also circles back to... one action is in violation of rules and their oath of office... the other is not. Big difference!

If it's allowed then governance of the people simply becomes a matter of which side can muster the largest group of protestors, scream the loudest, make the biggest news story and who has the loudest blowhorn. Absolute chaos and absoutely absurd for any representative on either side of the isle.

 

[Black Dog]

New add on HB205
The bill will also effectively turn all AR-15 rifles into contraband. There are no exceptions for previously owned rifles or law enforcement.

 

[solv3nt]

New add on HB205
The bill will also effectively turn all AR-15 rifles into contraband. There are no exceptions for previously owned rifles or law enforcement.

Which is actually good. That will lose in court faster than anything.

 

[Yarome]

New add on HB205
The bill will also effectively turn all AR-15 rifles into contraband. There are no exceptions for previously owned rifles or law enforcement.

If feels more and more like the goal is just to shut down all FFL's businesses and arrest every firearm owner in the state, hu. That'll end well.

 

[Yarome]

Which is actually good. That will lose in court faster than anything.

Bleed the 2A supporter organizations dry in court fees until we can't afford to fight back any more.... and use our own tax money to do it.