Russian T-14 - best tank in the world? But Russia can't afford to manufacture them?

billdeserthills · Sep 7, 2021

DirectDrive said:
Why riding around in a Russian tank is not on my "To Do" list :

Damn, is that thing made with magnesium?

DirectDrive · Sep 7, 2021

tac said:
Sadly, Sir, this movie title is absolute BS.

The location is nowhere near Syria and no Israelis were involved. The place is actually the Bofors AB of SWEDEN test range, sometime in 1988, and the tank is a stuffed-to-the-gills Centurion retired from the Swedish Army. The missile is the Bofors BILL top attack ATGM.

Dear sir, please don't tell me that there is no Santa.
That sir, would be hard to take.

sobo · Sep 7, 2021

billdeserthills said:
Damn, is that thing made with magnesium?

Naah, it's just all the propellant bags cookin' off all at once.

Note that the narrator said, "The result of a hit on a fully-armed tank is spectacular."
I would take this to mean that the tank had projectiles and propellant bags contained within.

Ura-Ki · Sep 7, 2021

sobo said:
Naah, it's just all the propellant bags cookin' off all at once.

Note that the narrator said, "The result of a hit on a fully-armed tank is spectacular."
I would take this to mean that the tank had projectiles and propellant bags contained within.

True! Having seen this very thing in Gulf 1 and 2, those Russian tanks were sitting ducks to anything with a big enough gun or high explosive/ anti tank weapons! During Gulf 1, the Air Force was still flying the PIG F-111's who became specialists at "Tank Plinking" out in the sands dug in, hull down. They would rip across the sands at just below the speed of sound and using their laser targeting pods, drop 750 pound or bigger dumb bombs right on top or just under them and almost every single hit or near hit was catastrophic, there was zero warning for the first few tanks hit, with the PIGs zooming in at around 1000 feet or less and Mach .9, they were nearly silent, and no sonic boom to alert others further down the line! The A-10's were ever more feared, the Iraqis would see the A-10's coming and abandon their tanks right quick and in a hurry like, knowing they were going to get the turret popped off, it became legend! Even the Apache using Hellfire and TOW missiles were much feared, and then there was the M-1 Abrams, the bane of every Russian tank ever made, 98% of all tank on tank engagements ( or some ridiculously high ratio like that) ended with the Iraqi tank burning and a dead crew if they got caught inside the tank when hit! Craziest one was a flight of 4 B-52's that came in across the formations dug in, and laid waste to the whole force, the republican guard saw them coming and everyone bailed and started running as fast as their legs would carry them across the sands, lemme tell ya, a flight of B-52's carpet bombing ANYTHING is awe inspiring, let alone a bunch of tanks and their support forces and personal! We were sitting about 8 miles back and saw the whole show, even that far away, the sound was incredible! In Gulf 2, things were even worser for them, weapons systems had really advanced in the 10 years since the last go around, targeting was super accurate and they paid dearly! What took a couple of weeks in the first go around was a few days in the second!

tac · Sep 8, 2021

Nibbs said:
When I ETSd in 69 the Kool Kid rig was an XM551LAARAV or some such acronym..

But it was A Real Kool Kid rig.

And ahead of it's time.

It was a Paratrooper & a Swimmer.
At Ft Knox they plunged one 10 ft deep into the dirt because an AF Lt screwed up the parachute rigging.

Trying to sell it to anybody including Israelis & ARabs, among others.

152 mm main tube, fired a Shillelagh wire
guided missle.

But it Did have It's issues..

The conventional rnd had a combustible shell casing.
A smoldering ember inside the chamber could cause a live rnd to, well,
kill everybody inside,
so they the came up w/ a CO2 Scavenger System.
Guys quit getting jellified.

Maybe there are some old fart 11Deltas on this forum who endured jungle crap..

Sheridan. Say no more.

tac · Sep 8, 2021

sobo said:
Naah, it's just all the propellant bags cookin' off all at once.

Note that the narrator said, "The result of a hit on a fully-armed tank is spectacular."
I would take this to mean that the tank had projectiles and propellant bags contained within.

PLEASE take a minute to LOOK at my post #136, which clearly shows the SOLID plasticised propellant - the brown stuff - stuck in the metal stub case. Not bags - it's the same consistency as a plastic sink bowl made of that so-called unbreakable flexible plastic material

tac · Sep 8, 2021

Here is a digitised view of the difference between the T-64 and T-72 reloading sequence in motion - both are equally vulnerable to a jet of plasma-hot gas at 28,000 fps.

sobo · Sep 8, 2021

tac said:
PLEASE take a minute to LOOK at my post #136, which clearly shows the SOLID plasticised propellant - the brown stuff - stuck in the metal stub case. Not bags - it's the same consistency as a plastic sink bowl made of that so-called unbreakable flexible plastic material

Yea, tac, I watched your video. Twice. I used the term "bag" cuz it was the most descriptive term I could come up with that was short and to the point, and not being a tanker nor being familiar with the fact that the propellant is plasticized, nor precisely how Russian tank shells are loaded, "primed" and fired, I thought it would suffice. Clearly, I'm a wanker, not a tanker...

revjen45 · Sep 8, 2021

"Quantity of everything seems to have been a key factor in Russian military success."
"It didn't help Iraq in the Iraq/Iran war either - they outnumbered Iran 4:1 and had superior tanks to boot, but their tactics and leadership sucked."

In WW2 the Krauts had a 15:1 kill ratio over the Soviets, but it still wasn't enough with a drug addled clown like Herr Schicklgruber in charge. No matter what the advantage in quality and quantity incompetence at the top is a guaranteed loser.
Now imagine China vs. USA with Droolin' Joe or Cackles in charge.

Nibbs · Sep 8, 2021

Just a tidbit of nostalgia....

During the Arab Israeli "6 Day War" the Israelis captured a bunch of Soviet made tanks..

At some point they took 5 of them, lined em up side by side so that they could test their 105MM's APDS "Sabot" round's effectiveness.

Lined up to go thru the Breach Area they discovered a Succesful shot that went thru all 5 Breaches & no idear where the projectile landed...

Spaz · Sep 8, 2021

T-14 will be fun to kill with Javelins...I wonder what crew survivability is and if we will get to kill them as they dismount the tank?

Diamondback · Sep 8, 2021

Ura-Ki said:
Craziest one was a flight of 4 B-52's that came in across the formations dug in, and laid waste to the whole force, the republican guard saw them coming and everyone bailed and started running as fast as their legs would carry them across the sands, lemme tell ya, a flight of B-52's carpet bombing ANYTHING is awe inspiring, let alone a bunch of tanks and their support forces and personal! We were sitting about 8 miles back and saw the whole show, even that far away, the sound was incredible!

In Nam, with the Big Belly package and full loads of 84x Mk 82 500-pounders, the AOE for a six-pack (two cells of three with a separation between) was equivalent to DC's National Mall including all the building complexes on both sides.

Now imagine a flight of B-52s packed to the gills until they gross out with 250lb SDB's, each capable of raining precision-guided death out to 40 miles all day long and well into the night... any of you wingnuts popping a stiffy from this yet? Something like three hundred little one-shot killers per plane... now imagine if we could set up the bastard lovechild of an SDB and a Ginsu Hellfire. *evil Palpatine cackle*

revjen45 · Sep 9, 2021

I think B-52s carpet bombing anything would give anybody who loves powerful weaponry a b0ner.

Diamondback · Sep 9, 2021

Problem is, the practical number's a lot lower because you can't just pile the bombs in--you need new racks which take their own bite out of the tonnage, you need additional MIL-STD-1760 data buses which take their bite... the usual handling for SDB's in mass is four of them on a BRU-61 strongback (which carries its own 1760 bus) which combined weigh 1460lbs, then eight loaded strongbacks on the Common Rotary Launcher used for everything bigger than a 750-pdr.

Even just sortieing with 80, given that a GBU-39 has penetration close to a 2000-lb BLU-109, means All Day Fun For Everyone... much above that, and you get problems with loading time unless you go back to something like Big Belly where you preload the ordnance in clips while the bird's up then swap clips on landing and reload the empties through the next mission.

Spaz · Sep 9, 2021

*Modern AD and denied air has entered the chat*

Nibbs · Sep 10, 2021

tac said:
Sheridan. Say no more.

Lazyfaire · Sep 10, 2021

Xaevian said:
Yeah, but...

Their equipment is all made in China.

But easy to access them. Amazon will carry them, with a 2 day turnaround.

crstrode · Sep 10, 2021

The Heretic said:
I was watching "Age of Tanks" on Netflix - a bit dated and somewhat superficial, at the end they talked about the new Russian T-14. So I looked it up, and as I expected, it is not in production, not even really in testing - it sounds like Russia can't afford to put it into production. Sounds like a kewl tank, if they could work out the bugs and put it into production.

T-14 Armata - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think at this point, from a military perspective, it is the Chinese that would be most likely present a military threat to the USA, if they wanted to - ignoring the cyber attacks by both Russians and Chinese.